School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

khalessi · 15-06-2020 8:32pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Are these aligned to the Peoples' Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples' Front?

Just what the world needed. Another forum for primary school principals.

Did you look at the document? It is more comprehensive than anything the government has issued so far regarding schools reopening.

killbillvol2 · 15-06-2020 8:48pm

khalessi wrote: »

Did you look at the document? It is more comprehensive than anything the government has issued so far regarding schools reopening.

I read it all. It's very comprehensive but ridiculously nit picking in many areas.

The problem is, who are they? The INTO represents principals, the IPPN represents principals and this group represents principals. The DES is delighted to have multiple groups because they can ignore them all.

Mardy Bum · 15-06-2020 11:42pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I read it all. It's very comprehensive but ridiculously nit picking in many areas.

The problem is, who are they? The INTO represents principals, the IPPN represents principals and this group represents principals. The DES is delighted to have multiple groups because they can ignore them all.

It is a good document. More power to them. The dearth of expertise from all the groups you have listed has been clear for years. This group seems to possess some knowledge of how schools are run which is a change.

mirrorwall14 · 16-06-2020 12:05pm

I think it’s great to be honest and the department could do with running down that list and answering questions if they can’t actually make their own list. That thing the DES released was completely farcical

ShamoBuc · 16-06-2020 9:11pm

I see Beijing have closed all City schools as a result of another outbreak of Covid, it's just not going away over there, hopefully our numbers continue to go lower in the weeks ahead. If the numbers start coming back, we could be going back a stage or two and schools could well stay shut. All going well and classes will be at least half full each day.

emmaro · 17-06-2020 11:36am

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I see Beijing have closed all City schools as a result of another outbreak of Covid, it's just not going away over there, hopefully our numbers continue to go lower in the weeks ahead. If the numbers start coming back, we could be going back a stage or two and schools could well stay shut. All going well and classes will be at least half full each day.

I honestly can't see the government keeping schools closed here.

khalessi · 17-06-2020 11:50am

emmaro wrote: »

I honestly can't see the government keeping schools closed here.

Nope they wont keep them closed, they want them open and have totally disregarded teacher health and wellbeing despite schools being workplaces.

mirrorwall14 · 18-06-2020 1:29pm

So considering this thread and the document from McHugh I thought it might be interesting to share some of the new procedures and policies from my creche I just received. In Ireland. The same country that the minister for education is proposing to just open schools....

Bobtheman · 19-06-2020 4:42pm

I can see us being reclassified as front line workers.
To be fair the covid seems to be much dimenished.
I'd be happy to go back with proper medical support.

Rosita · 25-06-2020 9:32am

Bobtheman wrote: »

I can see us being reclassified as front line workers.
To be fair the covid seems to be much dimenished.
I'd be happy to go back with proper medical support.

I think all anybody wants is evidence of proper plan, recognition that schools are workplaces, and that the sheer desire and social necessity to have schools back in full does not preclude the need for proper organisation.

I'd actually far prefer to hear at this stage 'we don't have a plan yet' (because it is important to see how things go over the next 7/8 weeks) than someone like Simon Harris back in early May saying that LCs might be back in May a week after McHugh said they'd be back in July.

Or Varadker going on the Late Late Show talking about calculated grades for the LC the day after it had been postponed until July. Let them get one message that they actually believe themselves is deliverable and try to make it stick this time.

SligoBrewer · 25-06-2020 11:57pm

I love people who think that Fine Gael are competent.

ShamoBuc · 25-06-2020 11:59pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I love people who think that Fine Gael are competent.

To be fair, you could add the other parties to that list I think.

Rosita · 26-06-2020 1:43pm

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I love people who think that Fine Gael are competent.

Better still people who will tell you that since the pandemic emerged that "they've done a good job". This is a scenario where they get to stand in front of microphones regularly, have the entire population by and large doing what they are told, and no opposition in the Dáil to question anything. Weird that anyone would purport to judge them on an utterly one-off set of circumstances.

Bobtheman · 26-06-2020 4:36pm

Rosita wrote: »

Better still people who will tell you that since the pandemic emerged that "they've done a good job". This is a scenario where they get to stand in front of microphones regularly, have the entire population by and large doing what they are told, and no opposition in the Dáil to question anything. Weird that anyone would purport to judge them on an utterly one-off set of circumstances.

I think to be fair the handling of the covid Crisis across a lot of countries leaves a lot to be desired. Mchugh didn't do a great job on it. He should have held his ground on the LC. Look around your parks now? Yes he could not forssee the future but hotels etc empty. It was possible.
Meanwhile I paid out close to 400 euro for medical consultants. The health service nd housing are two reasons why nobody should vote for FF/FG

SligoBrewer · 27-06-2020 12:17am

They are #playingablinder though.

km79 · 27-06-2020 4:36pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Foley

Our new minister apparently

ShamoBuc · 27-06-2020 5:52pm

Zero experience of being a TD but is now a minister for Education.

Does not inspire me.

r93kaey5p2izun · 27-06-2020 5:55pm

She will struggle to be any more incompetent than McHugh, or any more destructive than Bruton and Quinn. We'll see!

ShamoBuc · 27-06-2020 5:58pm

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

She will struggle to be any more incompetent than McHugh, or any more destructive than Bruton and Quinn. We'll see!

And Jan O'Sullivan in between them.

r93kaey5p2izun · 27-06-2020 6:02pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

And Jan O'Sullivan in between them.

She just carried on Quinn's ego projects after him. We can stick her jointly between the two camps, incompetent and destructive.

km79 · 27-06-2020 6:03pm

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

She will struggle to be any more incompetent than McHugh, or any more destructive than Bruton and Quinn. We'll see!

This was exactly what was said about McHugh
And “at least he is a teacher “

She is not going in to teach classes. She is going into an absolute mess at a crucial time with no ministerial experience .
An afterthought

mtoutlemonde · 27-06-2020 7:19pm

km79 wrote: »

This was exactly what was said about McHugh
And “at least he is a teacher “

She is not going in to teach classes. She is going into an absolute mess at a crucial time with no ministerial experience .
An afterthought

As I said in the other thread, education is the poor relation - give someone the nod - what harm can they do - it's in a bad shape already.

km79 · 28-06-2020 7:48pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0628/1150197-education-minister-schools-reopen/

km79 · 01-07-2020 5:52pm

HPSC guidelines which are likely/will have to form the basis for return to school planning.
Students from 3rd class up must maintain 1m physically distancing

https://www.education.ie/en/covid-19/interim-recommendations-for-the-reopening-of-schools-and-educational-facilities.pdf

mirrorwall14 · 01-07-2020 5:59pm

Do we keep this thread now we’ve a new minister or move to a new one. 1m means 2.5 days per student? Is that what had been said? Jesus this is going to be a total mess

km79 · 01-07-2020 6:03pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Do we keep this thread now we’ve a new minister or move to a new one. 1m means 2.5 days per student? Is that what had been said? Jesus this is going to be a total mess

For secondary - 2m but if not possible then AT LEAST 1m
Students should remain in same classroom with same class and teachers as much as possible.
as many double periods as possible

Cleaners clean the desks not teachers.
Not much else in it

Spanish Eyes · 01-07-2020 6:08pm

Re secondary schools, could I ask those who know why students move from classroom to classroom all day? I understand the need to move to labs and kitchens etc. But surely it is much easier for a teacher to move around.

Now forgive me if this doesn’t happen anymore I’m a long time out of the system re kids etc.

mirrorwall14 · 01-07-2020 6:15pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Re secondary schools, could I ask those who know why students move from classroom to classroom all day? I understand the need to move to labs and kitchens etc. But surely it is much easier for a teacher to move around.

Now forgive me if this doesn’t happen anymore I’m a long time out of the system re kids etc.

Options and levels. So like I teach music and maths. In music it’s one of 7 options on the line taken from all 150 students. In maths they are sorted OL and pass so cannot be in base classes

BonsaiKitten · 01-07-2020 6:45pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Re secondary schools, could I ask those who know why students move from classroom to classroom all day? I understand the need to move to labs and kitchens etc. But surely it is much easier for a teacher to move around.

Now forgive me if this doesn’t happen anymore I’m a long time out of the system re kids etc.

There's also supervision issues - the teacher has to leave kids unsupervised as they move to the next room. I'm sure some schools would have no issues but if anything did happen during that time, who is responsible? Much safer from a supervision point of view to have kids move between rooms.

Alex86Eire · 01-07-2020 7:00pm

It'll be impossible to have 1m distance between 30 kids in the lab. Our desks are fixed.
I'm presuming equipment can't be shared between students either.
It'll be a nightmare for practical subjects.

Treppen · 01-07-2020 7:03pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

There's also supervision issues - the teacher has to leave kids unsupervised as they move to the next room. I'm sure some schools would have no issues but if anything did happen during that time, who is responsible? Much safer from a supervision point of view to have kids move between rooms.

The school I went to had student based rooms for a while.
Bunch of idiot teenage boys, sitting for up to 10 mins, calmly awaiting instruction!! Twas like madmax

Millem · 01-07-2020 7:11pm

If the younger classes are in pods. Will they be back as normal in September?

Millem · 01-07-2020 7:13pm

Alex86Eire wrote: »

It'll be impossible to have 1m distance between 30 kids in the lab. Our desks are fixed.
I'm presuming equipment can't be shared between students either.
It'll be a nightmare for practical subjects.

I didn’t think we would be able to practical cookery classes? I teach home ec.

Alex86Eire · 01-07-2020 7:34pm

Millem wrote: »

I didn’t think we would be able to practical cookery classes? I teach home ec.

Yeah I don't see how they'd work with the current restrictions. We've very limited equipment - same as you'd have a few to an oven. All our Junior and most of our Senior classes are 30's.
The woodwork/DCG/art classes will have similar issues.

km79 · 01-07-2020 7:36pm

Alex86Eire wrote: »

It'll be impossible to have 1m distance between 30 kids in the lab. Our desks are fixed.
I'm presuming equipment can't be shared between students either.
It'll be a nightmare for practical subjects.

I actually noted the lack of guidance on many practical subjects
We only have 24 in any class and our labs only hold 24 but still a problem

km79 · 01-07-2020 7:37pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Re secondary schools, could I ask those who know why students move from classroom to classroom all day? I understand the need to move to labs and kitchens etc. But surely it is much easier for a teacher to move around.

Now forgive me if this doesn’t happen anymore I’m a long time out of the system re kids etc.

The claims culture in this country

Millem · 01-07-2020 7:39pm

Alex86Eire wrote: »

Yeah I don't see how they'd work with the current restrictions. We've very limited equipment - same as you'd have a few to an oven. All our Junior and most of our Senior classes are 30's.
The woodwork/DCG/art classes will have similar issues.

We have 20. We should be okish with regard to not sharing equipment. It will be the cleaning/sanitising of the equipment that will be the problem.
Also maintaining social distancing between the teacher and student during practical classes will be very difficult.

byhookorbycrook · 01-07-2020 7:53pm

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-figures-reveal-65-covid-related-deaths-in-education/

Mardy Bum · 01-07-2020 7:54pm

Realistically, these plans cannot be implemented in most schools therefore the plan will change by September. The poor principals will still have to try to pull something together over the next few weeks meaning even less holiday time than usual. There could be a few retirements by September.

km79 · 01-07-2020 7:58pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Realistically, these plans cannot be implemented in most schools therefore the plan will change by September. The poor principals will still have to try to pull something together over the next few weeks meaning even less holiday time than usual. There could be a few retirements by September.

There has been a really noticeable increase in the number of principal and deputy principal jobs advertised over the last few months
It can’t be just a coincidence

Mardy Bum · 01-07-2020 8:04pm

km79 wrote: »

There has been a really noticeable increase in the number of principal and deputy principal jobs advertised over the last few months
It can’t be just a coincidence

There will be bedlam in schools next year for a number of reasons whilst Joe McHugh sits on the back benches deluding himself about the great job he did.

khalessi · 01-07-2020 8:08pm

km79 wrote: »

There has been a really noticeable increase in the number of principal and deputy principal jobs advertised over the last few months
It can’t be just a coincidence

I wouldnt want the stress of this, as we know the public will blame the teachers when it goes tits up

Bobtheman · 01-07-2020 8:13pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

There will be bedlam in schools next year for a number of reasons whilst Joe McHugh sits on the back benches deluding himself about the great job he did.

I would blame McHugh over the LC but I think his arm was probably twisted over that one possibly ? Otherwise why does he get such bad press ?

Bobtheman · 01-07-2020 8:19pm

In most schools pupils move around. Not teachers particularly with the dawn of IT equipment.
Personally I would not see the advantage of reversing to the old system of teachers moving around. It would leave kids unsupervised for anywhere between 5-10 minutes. Rooms would be destroyed.
Furthermore teachers would have to cluster in work rooms or staffrooms with their books. You could not expect teachers to haul all their books etc around them all day.
In our school we have small workrooms for teachers but mainly populated by teachers without rooms.
Teachers are more likely to get ill but this document just seems to throw us to the wolves.
You are going to have to hire more teachers because in my room you might have 25 kids packed in. Not possible with 1 metre distancing

maynooth_rules · 01-07-2020 8:33pm

This isn't implementable at secondary level. Just thinking of the timetabling, separate breaks would be very difficult. Keeping kids out of corridors at seperate times would be very difficult. Getting, particularly senior students who on different bands etc due to subject choices to stay in the same room as much as possible will be impossible.
Actually the biggest social distancing issue for our school will be the buses bringing kids to school

maynooth_rules · 01-07-2020 8:37pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I would blame McHugh over the LC but I think his arm was probably twisted over that one possibly ? Otherwise why does he get such bad press ?

The department didn't help him by 'leaking' everything to bloody Emma O'Kelly and Carlo O'Brien. Utterly frustrating to hear about some of the most important decisions to be made in education in recent years from their tweets rather than from minister briefing or direct from department

alroley · 01-07-2020 9:08pm

Keeping students in base classes in one room doesn't really make sense.

Senior cycle students are only together in their base class for PE and religion in my school. Every other class is a mix of the base classes.

Junior cycle are mixed for English, maths, Irish, science and all options.

Mardy Bum · 01-07-2020 9:17pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I would blame McHugh over the LC but I think his arm was probably twisted over that one possibly ? Otherwise why does he get such bad press ?

What leadership did he show as minister during his tenure? Reinstating history does not count because if he had any principles he would have questioned the entire premise of the reforms.

PixiePop · 01-07-2020 9:28pm

khalessi wrote: »

Nope they wont keep them closed, they want them open and have totally disregarded teacher health and wellbeing despite schools being workplaces.

Schools aren't just workplaces. They're also centres of education. Teachers should not be the only consideration. The lives and futures of hundreds of thousands of children also needs to be factored in. What kind of outcome do they have in life with half an education? Will we have to extend the number of years they spend in school? Hospitals are workplaces too but the nurses and doctors didn't refuse to do their jobs unless 2m social distancing was put in place. And I see lots of other workplaces where 2m distancing just isn't practical. Why do teachers get to refuse? I know nurses/doctors are in life and death situations but I would also regard education as being pretty paramount, like health.

km79 · 01-07-2020 9:29pm

It has begun
Well played Joe

School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

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