Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 12:03PM

Edgware wrote: »

Ha ha. Thats a laugh. We all know who was compromised by M15. Scapaticci, Donaldson and the other higher echelons of SF in Belfast who were on the payroll of the British.

How would you know anything when you are buying into a version of the history written by the SDLP?

Hume and Mallon are not of the same stature. You demean Hume's vision and bravery by lumping Mallon in with him.

Bonniedog · 28-06-2020 12:08PM

Edgware wrote: »

Ha ha. Thats a laugh. We all know who was compromised by M15. Scapaticci, Donaldson and the other higher echelons of SF in Belfast who were on the payroll of the British.

Even Adams driver Roy "The Rat" McShane was a tout.

I suspect there will be more revelations shortly after Big Bobby is safely buried.

A shameful history all told. They were killing people including their own for no reason other than to make a deal with the Brits for 15 years.

Edgware · 28-06-2020 12:08PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How would you know anything when you are buying into a version of the history written by the SDLP?

Hume and Mallon are not of the same stature. You demean Hume's vision and bravery by lumping Mallon in with him.

Stop deflecting. How many of SF/IRA were on the British payroll. How many innocents were plugged by the Nutting squad to cover up the informer network at the top of S.F. I.R.A.
Mallon is detested by SF because he stood up to them throughout years of murder and mayhem. Cowards hate that.

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 12:21PM

Edgware wrote: »

Stop deflecting. How many of SF/IRA were on the British payroll. How many innocents were plugged by the Nutting squad to cover up the informer network at the top of S.F. I.R.A.
Mallon is detested by SF because he stood up to them throughout years of murder and mayhem. Cowards hate that.

Should your questions not be directed at the British here?

Personally I could care less if the IRA where being run from Westminster itself. I care that they are gone and that the GFA has been achieved for the people of this island.

Mallon is not detested by SF or anybody IMO. He was of service but he had feet of clay in comparison to Hume. I think some may have felt sorry for him when he bitterly made his final pleas for recognition.

Were it not for Hume we would be talking about the memory of the SDLP as a political party. The people knew who delivered and they voted accordingly, some still find that very hard to get over. But there you have it.

Edgware · 28-06-2020 01:19PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Should your questions not be directed at the British here?

Personally I could care less if the IRA where being run from Westminster itself. I care that they are gone and that the GFA has been achieved for the people of this island.

Mallon is not detested by SF or anybody IMO. He was of service but he had feet of clay in comparison to Hume. I think some may have felt sorry for him when he bitterly made his final pleas for recognition.

Were it not for Hume we would be talking about the memory of the SDLP as a political party. The people knew who delivered and they voted accordingly, some still find that very hard to get over. But there you have it.

If Mallon is not detested by S.F. why did the S.F. members of Drogheda Council vote against giving him the fairly insignificant honour of Freeman of Drogheda? It wasnt the Nobel Prize.
Orders from H.Q. probably told them to vote against.

Throughout the Troubles Mallon was subjected to as much abuse and threats from the Provo supporters as he was from the Loyalist side. He highlighted the activities of the British backed murder gangs as well as the Provo murder gangs and made it his business to attend the funeral of every person murdered in his constituency regardless of the victims background. He saw the absolute futility of political violence as a means of unifying a country

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 01:28PM

Edgware wrote: »

If Mallon is not detested by S.F. why did the S.F. members of Drogheda Council vote against giving him the fairly insignificant honour of Freeman of Drogheda? It wasnt the Nobel Prize.
Orders from H.Q. probably told them to vote against.

Because they believed he didn't deserve it?

Throughout the Troubles Mallon was subjected to as much abuse and threats from the Provo supporters as he was from the Loyalist side. He highlighted the activities of the British backed murder gangs

So too were SF and nobody listened. It's all coming out that they were correct about collusion and the British not being a 'neutral player'.

as well as the Provo murder gangs and made it his business to attend the funeral of every person murdered in his constituency regardless of the victims background. He saw the absolute futility of political violence as a means of unifying a country

He may have. He didn't have the solutions though...Hume did and was consequently a part of the solution>
Mallon's bitter little snipe about Sunningdale sums the man up. Sunningdale was never going to work, regardless of the earnestness of it's creators. It deepened the conflict and drove the sides further apart.
Hume recognised why Sunningdale was defeated...picked himself up dusted himself off and started again. Precisely because he put peace before his party fortunes.
He met with somebody who was prepared for peace too and both of them achieved it.

Bonniedog · 28-06-2020 01:38PM

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 01:57PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

Well fair play to MI5 so.

I'm grateful to whoever achieved the GFA.

You seem to hold those who are continuing the fight against the British militarily in higher regard. Bully for you.

I am glad that it was recognised that a stalemate had been reached and men and women were brave enough to accept that and reach an agreement that facilitated them getting their goal in a different way.

Bonniedog · 28-06-2020 02:51PM

As I said before, if the Provies couldnt beat the Brits then three men and a dog from Finglas or Ballymurphy are not going to beat the Brits.

Armed struggle was defeated and a secret conspiracy will always be open to being taken over as the last one was.

Just an awful waste of life for nothing. Unless you think that coalition with the DUP and Mary Lou becoming Tánaiste or something was worth all the senseless waste of life.

Had the ceasefires been followed by republican politics, to convince northern unionists of the benefits of unity for everyone, instead of waiting to have more babies than them - unlikely now that shinners are in support of abortion on demand - things might have been different.

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 02:59PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

As I said before, if the Provies couldnt beat the Brits then three men and a dog from Finglas or Ballymurphy are not going to beat the Brits.

Armed struggle was defeated and a secret conspiracy will always be open to being taken over as the last one was.

Just an awful waste of life for nothing. Unless you think that coalition with the DUP and Mary Lou becoming Tánaiste or something was worth all the senseless waste of life.

Had the ceasefires been followed by republican politics, to convince northern unionists of the benefits of unity for everyone, instead of waiting to have more babies than them - unlikely now that shinners are in support of abortion on demand - things might have been different.

Wow...rarely read anything quite as twisted and bitter. You sure seem disappointed it didn't end in a big enough bloodbath so you could have 'real' hero's out of one of those gung ho British war films to indulge.
I don't find pragmatic and realistic compromise and acceptance unheroic, I try to live in the real world.

I'll leave you to it.

Bonniedog · 28-06-2020 04:21PM

It's like arguing with the under 10s :-)

Greysteel and Loughlinisland were before the ceasefire.

Try getting some facts right before you even consider arguing with your intellectual superiors :-)

Same to Francie who knows as much about what happened as Monaghan do about winning All Irelands.

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 04:29PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Same to Francie who knows as much about what happened as Monaghan do about winning All Irelands.

bonniedog wrote:

The "unionist veto" is the right to consent to change constitutional status of NI. It's still there.

Sure, you know what you are talking about Bonnie...sure!

Edgware · 28-06-2020 04:42PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hold up.....unionists went on a killing spree after ceasefires

Likes of greysteel/leighlinisland virtually all lvf killings only occured as they known the ira wouldnt push back

You let yourself down all the time. Facts are what matter not what you and Francie make up.

FrancieBrady · 28-06-2020 04:56PM

Edgware wrote: »

You let yourself down all the time. Facts are what matter not what you and Francie make up.

What 'facts' have I made up?

Surely you too are not backing bonniedog's version of what the 'Unionist Veto' was and that it is still in the GFA?

blanch152 · 28-06-2020 05:04PM

Amazing how this thread has managed to deflect itself away from discussing Sinn Fein's abysmal failure to take any steps to form a government and the humiliation of Mary-Lou in the Dail yesterday.

Maybe Paddy Houlihan can save some blushes by getting elected to a position of importance on South Dublin County Council.

James Brown · 28-06-2020 09:31PM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

From the irony in your posts- I can’t decide whether you are just not very bright or you are the wittiest person on here.

But answering a post where the constant whataboutery of SF supporters is being called out- with more whataboutery- gave me a little chuckle this morning.

Thank you

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.

James Brown · 28-06-2020 09:34PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Amazing how this thread has managed to deflect itself away from discussing Sinn Fein's abysmal failure to take any steps to form a government and the humiliation of Mary-Lou in the Dail yesterday.

Maybe Paddy Houlihan can save some blushes by getting elected to a position of importance on South Dublin County Council.

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

maccored · 28-06-2020 09:55PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

blanch152 · 28-06-2020 11:36PM

Bowie wrote: »

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

Bowie wrote: »

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.

Calling a racist homophobe as just "an ejit (sic) being an ejit (sic)" is defending him.

Bonniedog · 28-06-2020 11:46PM

maccored wrote: »

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

Not too well up on how the whole intelligence/informer thing works are you?

joeguevara · 28-06-2020 11:48PM

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

Loafing Oaf · 28-06-2020 11:50PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government

Not really though

blanch152 · 28-06-2020 11:51PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

Sinn Fein are a threat to our democracy, they want to bully their way to power like in the 1930s. Many of their supporters on here would love a depression like 1929 to help them on their way.

The rabble of the rest are only interested in protest and foghorns. No matter what is proposed, they are against it.

aido79 · 28-06-2020 11:54PM

zoobizoo wrote: »

The outrage on the Friends Who Support Sinn Fein Facebook page makes for great reading......

"Yes we want another election we did not vot foer ye power grabing ***** But it all about the money in the endSold ye vote just liks judis done Enjoy while ye can yer days are numbered And ye will be history get up on you bike and toddle on Ye wount have a gaverment if the people dont support ye Not my goverment"

Are all of these #notmygovernment and #notmytaoiseach people emigrating?

Sinn Fein might really struggle in the next election if they don't return home to vote.

blanch152 · 28-06-2020 11:56PM

aido79 wrote: »

Are all of these #notmygovernment and #notmytaoiseach people emigrating?

Sinn Fein might really struggle in the next election if they don't return home to vote.

They'll probably forget to vote the next time, half of them only voted because Sinn Fein shipped them down to the polling station in cars.

JohnnyFlash · 29-06-2020 12:00AM

I bet their contempt for the democratic processes of this State doesn’t extend to them refusing to claim social welfare payments from it.

FrancieBrady · 29-06-2020 12:03AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Are you saying people cannot protest?
It's hardly a coup now, hold on to the old hat there.

Protests against governments are normal and legal. The difference here is that it is so early in the term.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

It is probably meant to trigger just that reaction.

joeguevara · 29-06-2020 12:34AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you saying people cannot protest?
It's hardly a coup now, hold on to the old hat there.

Protests against governments are normal and legal. The difference here is that it is so early in the term.

It is probably meant to trigger just that reaction.

Never said no right to protest but protesting against a democratically elected government and disregarding the will of the majority of voters smacks of either lack of knowledge of how proportional representation and subsequent forming of a government works or bully boy tactics.

As regards the not my Taoiseach i don’t think it’s as sophisticated as you say. It’s more of a petulant child who didn’t win the 100m sprint in a school sports day but still want the gold medal. I’m certainly not triggered by it as I dislike them all, but at least have a bit of cop on and work towards the next time.

joeguevara · 29-06-2020 12:36AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not really though

What part is not really. The party with the most seats FF formed a majority by going into a coalition with FG and Greens. It’s a democratically formed government. Anyone who can’t see that, please refer to my post above.

FrancieBrady · 29-06-2020 12:42AM

joeguevara wrote: »

Never said no right to protest but protesting against a democratically elected government and disregarding the will of the majority of voters smacks of either lack of knowledge of how proportional representation and subsequent forming of a government works or bully boy tactics.

Proportional representation didn't work for 24% because two parties froze out that 24%.
If you do that expect protest.

As regards the not my Taoiseach i don’t think it’s as sophisticated as you say. It’s more of a petulant child who didn’t win the 100m sprint in a school sports day but still want the gold medal. I’m certainly not triggered by it as I dislike them all, but at least have a bit of cop on and work towards the next time.

Again, two parties froze out a third. That is going to bring protest. Did you seriously think a mandate of 24% was just going to go silently into the night?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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