Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No party can be held responsible for what is said on the internet. That would be ridiculous. It is just lazy stereotyping to say all of the above comes in an orchestrated way from SF. More allegations without any proof.
See also what anyone supporting SF is called here. Only today I commented on somebody referring to a female SF member as a 'slug'.

Coalition can work perfectly fine with parties with different outlooks. This one is hardly a marriage of equal perspectives is it?

FF and FG's behaviour has set the theme for this government - exclusion of 24% of the electorate. Protesting that will be the order of the day. That is politics, SF PBP etc will use this.

If you want you have every right to protest the protests.

I’m not saying that SF are responsible for the publishing of content on an independent website or forum. But that is their supporters so FG don’t want to associate with that. But when it’s on official SF media or website and not called out by the party then it becomes their issue, obviously I’m not talking about being pro developers or ripping the poor, but I am talking about things like the constant homophobic language against Varadkar and the Jewish thing with Harris. This would have two benefits. It would show a step forward for inclusion in discussions with parties and it would show to people of similar minorities that they are represented. Obviously the same goes for the other side.

I think it’s disgusting calling any supporter a name like a slug or any denigration. the animosity and extreme language and behaviour that exists between different supporters is something I have never witnessed before.

Marching with no purpose is ineffectual. Do they think it will stop the coalition. Will it assist minorities. In essence it does nothing but loose a few calories. Why not actually mobilise and build on local government. Educate the next generation of voter. Assist in gaining new skills that would help the party I.e. new economic or environmental policy, also it may show potential candidates that are a better fit than some of the elected td s with very little vetting done on them. Also a lot of the new support have little to know knowledge of how Northern Ireland should be governed. I talked to 10 different people and none new that Stormont hadn’t sat in 3 years. None new any elected SF member there, none had a clue of pretty basic things you should know. Surely integrating The supporters north and south in a positive way is better than shouting not my Taoiseach on a rainy Wednesday night in November,

But it’s everyone’s constitutional right to assemble and march. But I thought marching might be a word that some supporter have an inate hatred of.

markodaly wrote: »

Protesting for the sake of protesting.
SF, if they want to be taken seriously, will need to cop themselves on.
Can you imagine FG protesting the scenario where SF/FF and the Greens would have gotten into government?

If SF want to be seen as the main opposition party then they need to put their megaphones away and act with a bit more conviction, responsibility, rigour and professionalism. Because at the moment, they are acting like a ragtag bunch of idiots, like from some student union.

FG have never been excluded from negotiating on behalf of their mandate...there is no telling what they would do. I won't mention the famous coloured shirts in their history suffice to say we have no idea what they would do if that happened for a prolonged period.

Protest has been a legitimate way to express a view since the foundation of the state. Get over it Mark and maybe get used to it, because I think you and your party are going to have endure a lot of it based on the bed you have made for yourselves.

And wow...I'm just flabbergasted you have come to the view that SF and PBP supporters are acting like 'idiots', is that new?

markodaly

FF and FG's behaviour has set the theme for this government - exclusion of 24% of the electorate. Protesting that will be the order of the day. That is politics, SF PBP etc will use this.

If you want you have every right to protest the protests.

Protesting for the sake of protesting.
SF, if they want to be taken seriously, will need to cop themselves on.
Can you imagine FG protesting the scenario where SF/FF and the Greens would have gotten into government?

If SF want to be seen as the main opposition party then they need to put their megaphones away and act with a bit more conviction, responsibility, rigour and professionalism. Because at the moment, they are acting like a ragtag bunch of idiots, like from some student union.

joeguevara wrote: »

Francie i disagree with a lot of what you post but you have a lot of knowledge, you stick to your guns and come across fair. But you can’t honestly suggest that FF or FG would talk to SF. If we start with FG, have you had a look at the countless and incessant homophobic comments that are posted about Varadkar. The anti Semitic comments aimed at Harris, Pure vitriol at Coveney and the complete character assasination of the party and their voters.

No party can be held responsible for what is said on the internet. That would be ridiculous. It is just lazy stereotyping to say all of the above comes in an orchestrated way from SF. More allegations without any proof.
See also what anyone supporting SF is called here. Only today I commented on somebody referring to a female SF member as a 'slug'.

FF next. While constantly saying that they have a natural allegiance to each other due to both being Republican, the divide couldn’t be wider. The Apple Tax being w good example.

If Aontu had 24% should parties be obliged to talk to them. Fcuck no.

Coalition can work perfectly fine with parties with different outlooks. This one is hardly a marriage of equal perspectives is it?

It’s on both sides. The majority of candidates hate each other. The voting base are diametrically different. And at the end of the day, one side thinks the other is controlled by terrorists. Democracy means you are required to talk to anyone.

If at every turn when a decision is made that the opposition don’t like, are they going to go for a stroll down O’Connell street. Some cop on is needed.

FF and FG's behaviour has set the theme for this government - exclusion of 24% of the electorate. Protesting that will be the order of the day. That is politics, SF PBP etc will use this.

If you want you have every right to protest the protests.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG and FF have spent decades denigrating SF. FF and FG talk out of both sides of their mouths on this. On the one hand throwing the IRA out everytime they are being criticised and all the easy lazy stuff about 'balaclava's' etc and then on the other hand imploring them to get involved in democratic politics in the north.

They can't have it two ways here. If they aren't fit for government here they aren't fit for government in the north.

Put up the evidence, arrest those responsible, tear up the GFA or shut up and start behaving like democrats.

The difference is that FG don’t have a mandate in the north. I think the word imploring is incorrect. They told them to implement everything that they demand here. Things like minimum wage, assisting homelessness, pension age, social housing. It was more, why don’t you get off your asses and do it. The whole not sitting for 3 years because of the Irish language is ridiculous at this stage, while nationalist culture is important it shouldn’t trump real issues.

But why should they then talk to them if they denigrate them.
The issue of the IRA is a tricky one. It was left out of the latest tribunal report which appears to be strategic. But it’s probable that not exposing what they think is true is more palatable than a long process, where the ultimate end is a resumption of the violence.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I think if two parties refuse to talk to them and come together themselves to form a government then the 24% have the right to protest that.

Francie i disagree with a lot of what you post but you have a lot of knowledge, you stick to your guns and come across fair. But you can’t honestly suggest that FF or FG would talk to SF. If we start with FG, have you had a look at the countless and incessant homophobic comments that are posted about Varadkar. The anti Semitic comments aimed at Harris, Pure vitriol at Coveney and the complete character assasination of the party and their voters.

FF next. While constantly saying that they have a natural allegiance to each other due to both being Republican, the divide couldn’t be wider. The Apple Tax being w good example.

If Aontu had 24% should parties be obliged to talk to them. Fcuck no.

It’s on both sides. The majority of candidates hate each other. The voting base are diametrically different. And at the end of the day, one side thinks the other is controlled by terrorists. Democracy means you are required to talk to anyone.

If at every turn when a decision is made that the opposition don’t like, are they going to go for a stroll down O’Connell street. Some cop on is needed.

joeguevara wrote: »

What do you mean they froze them out. What gives SF this belief that they have the divine right to expect interaction. They literally had spent the last two years denigrating FG and regular spats in the Dail. Leo saying it doesn’t long for the balaclava to slip to Pearse as the most notable. With FF they equally denigrated their core values, and FF have taken evidence from the PSNI Garda and the independent tribunal that the IRA control the decisions. Why then is it their fault that they didn’t want to join them.

If 24 % think they have the right to disregard the elected majority then fcuck that maybe we do have a problem with our democracy,

FG and FF have spent decades denigrating SF. FF and FG talk out of both sides of their mouths on this. On the one hand throwing the IRA out everytime they are being criticised and all the easy lazy stuff about 'balaclava's' etc and then on the other hand imploring them to get involved in democratic politics in the north.

They can't have it two ways here. If they aren't fit for government here they aren't fit for government in the north.

Put up the evidence, arrest those responsible, tear up the GFA or shut up and start behaving like democrats.

Bonniedog wrote: »

What a gang of whingers.

So you think that every party that gets 24% should of right be included in government?

In Britain that would mean they would have had Tory/Labour coalitions for the last 100 years!

76% of the electorate rejected SF by the way but in their bizarre world that doesnt count for anything so they throw a strop.

No, I think if two parties refuse to talk to them and come together themselves to form a government then the 24% have the right to protest that.

markodaly wrote: »

It is embarrassing alright.

I have said it before and ill say it again. There is a strong smell of Brexit Sulpher from this type of narrative, a narrative played upon by SF.
They are the nationalist and nativist party yet they don't realise it yet, that they have more in common with UKIP and the BNP then FG.

Agreed. One of the core values of SF is pro immigration but a large amount of their newer candidates and voting base are the opposite. Paddy Holohon being the most blatant example of how they are not on the same page.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Proportional representation didn't work for 24% because two parties froze out that 24%.
If you do that expect protest.

Again, two parties froze out a third. That is going to bring protest. Did you seriously think a mandate of 24% was just going to go silently into the night?

What do you mean they froze them out. What gives SF this belief that they have the divine right to expect interaction. They literally had spent the last two years denigrating FG and regular spats in the Dail. Leo saying it doesn’t long for the balaclava to slip to Pearse as the most notable. With FF they equally denigrated their core values, and FF have taken evidence from the PSNI Garda and the independent tribunal that the IRA control the decisions. Why then is it their fault that they didn’t want to join them.

If 24 % think they have the right to disregard the elected majority then fcuck that maybe we do have a problem with our democracy,

markodaly

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

It is embarrassing alright.

I have said it before and ill say it again. There is a strong smell of Brexit Sulpher from this type of narrative, a narrative played upon by SF.
They are the nationalist and nativist party yet they don't realise it yet, that they have more in common with UKIP and the BNP then FG.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Proportional representation didn't work for 24% because two parties froze out that 24%.
If you do that expect protest.

Again, two parties froze out a third. That is going to bring protest. Did you seriously think a mandate of 24% was just going to go silently into the night?

What a gang of whingers.

So you think that every party that gets 24% should of right be included in government?

In Britain that would mean they would have had Tory/Labour coalitions for the last 100 years!

76% of the electorate rejected SF by the way but in their bizarre world that doesnt count for anything so they throw a strop.

dabestman1 wrote: »

Give it a rest ffs, you're like a broken record.

You’re right. Sinn Fein are in no way a threat to democracy. I think they can regroup and come up with a better strategy and real connections with similar parties.

But while it is great to see that for the first time in my life time they have ignited a spark in voters that had no interest before. But with that comes responsibility. They should educate their supporters. They should not buy into the populist lets have a march for anything that seems to be the option de jour.

I think they will have to change how they are perceived by other parties. Elected candidates shouting tiocfaidh ar la will make it difficult to form any partnership with th other to mains or greens. The other parties are quite disparate and not aligned with inherent SF ideals.

Also, they should come up with a better approach to the question of the army council. It was actually the only time that Mary Lou tripped up on a question. Her answer could have been interpreted as she has no role to speak on their behalf. Another candidate said he had no knowledge of their existence but a week later said he had been told by them that they no role in a serious beating.

The only other issue that i see them having is their younger demographic all have a complete and utter disdain for FF and FG. Unless they are going to grow considerably they may have to cosy up to more than likely FF. how they will explain that to the people who have spent months calling FF gangsters, scum, only helpin* the rich, murdering the homeless is going to be tricky. But listen, whatever anyone’s opinions on any party, the election call was a wake up call for all of them and that is good for democracy,

dabestman1

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are a threat to our democracy, they want to bully their way to power like in the 1930s. Many of their supporters on here would love a depression like 1929 to help them on their way.

The rabble of the rest are only interested in protest and foghorns. No matter what is proposed, they are against it.

Give it a rest ffs, you're like a broken record.

joeguevara wrote: »

Never said no right to protest but protesting against a democratically elected government and disregarding the will of the majority of voters smacks of either lack of knowledge of how proportional representation and subsequent forming of a government works or bully boy tactics.

Proportional representation didn't work for 24% because two parties froze out that 24%.
If you do that expect protest.

As regards the not my Taoiseach i don’t think it’s as sophisticated as you say. It’s more of a petulant child who didn’t win the 100m sprint in a school sports day but still want the gold medal. I’m certainly not triggered by it as I dislike them all, but at least have a bit of cop on and work towards the next time.

Again, two parties froze out a third. That is going to bring protest. Did you seriously think a mandate of 24% was just going to go silently into the night?

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Not really though

What part is not really. The party with the most seats FF formed a majority by going into a coalition with FG and Greens. It’s a democratically formed government. Anyone who can’t see that, please refer to my post above.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you saying people cannot protest?
It's hardly a coup now, hold on to the old hat there.

Protests against governments are normal and legal. The difference here is that it is so early in the term.

It is probably meant to trigger just that reaction.

Never said no right to protest but protesting against a democratically elected government and disregarding the will of the majority of voters smacks of either lack of knowledge of how proportional representation and subsequent forming of a government works or bully boy tactics.

As regards the not my Taoiseach i don’t think it’s as sophisticated as you say. It’s more of a petulant child who didn’t win the 100m sprint in a school sports day but still want the gold medal. I’m certainly not triggered by it as I dislike them all, but at least have a bit of cop on and work towards the next time.

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Are you saying people cannot protest?
It's hardly a coup now, hold on to the old hat there.

Protests against governments are normal and legal. The difference here is that it is so early in the term.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

It is probably meant to trigger just that reaction.

JohnnyFlash

I bet their contempt for the democratic processes of this State doesn’t extend to them refusing to claim social welfare payments from it.

aido79 wrote: »

Are all of these #notmygovernment and #notmytaoiseach people emigrating?

Sinn Fein might really struggle in the next election if they don't return home to vote.

They'll probably forget to vote the next time, half of them only voted because Sinn Fein shipped them down to the polling station in cars.

aido79

zoobizoo wrote: »

The outrage on the Friends Who Support Sinn Fein Facebook page makes for great reading......

"Yes we want another election we did not vot foer ye power grabing ***** But it all about the money in the endSold ye vote just liks judis done Enjoy while ye can yer days are numbered And ye will be history get up on you bike and toddle on Ye wount have a gaverment if the people dont support ye Not my goverment"

Are all of these #notmygovernment and #notmytaoiseach people emigrating?

Sinn Fein might really struggle in the next election if they don't return home to vote.

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

Sinn Fein are a threat to our democracy, they want to bully their way to power like in the 1930s. Many of their supporters on here would love a depression like 1929 to help them on their way.

The rabble of the rest are only interested in protest and foghorns. No matter what is proposed, they are against it.

Loafing Oaf

joeguevara wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government

Not really though

Can anyone explain to me why so many Sinn Fein and People Before Profit supporters are organising a march to demonstrate against the newly formed government because they are not the change they voted for. How can reasonable people think it’s in any way acceptable to go against at the end of the day the will of the people and essentiall revolt against a democratically formed government because they still hold the view that their perceived outcome trumps the actual one.

Also, while you are there, what is the constant posting of Michael Martin photo with Not My Taoiseach sprawled across it. Is it a case of throwing the toys out of the pram because they didn’t get the toy they wanted off Santy. It’s like they are oblivious to the fact that every Majority opposition that ever was would be disappointed that their leader wasn’t Taoiseach but understood the fact that if you don’t get enough votes you won’t be sitting on the other side.

For the sake of openness, i think what’s on the other side are equally as ineffectual, but my god voters need to grow up.

Bonniedog

maccored wrote: »

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

Not too well up on how the whole intelligence/informer thing works are you?

Bowie wrote: »

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

Bowie wrote: »

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.

Calling a racist homophobe as just "an ejit (sic) being an ejit (sic)" is defending him.

maccored

Bonniedog wrote: »

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Amazing how this thread has managed to deflect itself away from discussing Sinn Fein's abysmal failure to take any steps to form a government and the humiliation of Mary-Lou in the Dail yesterday.

Maybe Paddy Houlihan can save some blushes by getting elected to a position of importance on South Dublin County Council.

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

James Brown

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

From the irony in your posts- I can’t decide whether you are just not very bright or you are the wittiest person on here.

But answering a post where the constant whataboutery of SF supporters is being called out- with more whataboutery- gave me a little chuckle this morning.

Thank you

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.