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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #6842
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    callmehal wrote: »
    Let's be honest, it really seems like they don't know what they're doing. Have the McCanns made a statement since saying they never received the letter?

    Leave it a year or so and hope people forget Amaral said they'd stitch him up ?


  • #6843
    buttercups88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭buttercups88


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    Let's be honest, it really seems like they don't know what they're doing. Have the McCanns made a statement since saying they never received the letter?



    I've been reading over this trying to make sense of the statement and wonder could it be they have an image of a dead child they believe to be Madeleine but without being able to positively identify through DNA they cant say it is her 100% .

    I do feel the evidence they have is something they uncovered on the USB drives


  • #6844
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    I would guess that they've actually nothing at all on CB. The 'letter' they didn't send to the McCann's but told the media about is too mad to be consistent with that. I suspect that they do genuinely think he done it but had an accomplice. I think the purpose of telling the media they have something is to entice the accomplice to come forward and lay the blame on CB before they themselves get caught. Then allow CB respond to the accusation and in so doing they can piece together the truth from both accounts o events.


  • #6845
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I would guess that they've actually nothing at all on CB. The 'letter' they didn't send to the McCann's but told the media about is too mad to be consistent with that. I suspect that they do genuinely think he done it but had an accomplice. I think the purpose of telling the media they have something is to entice the accomplice to come forward and lay the blame on CB before they themselves get caught. Then allow CB respond to the accusation and in so doing they can piece together the truth from both accounts o events.

    Looks like it's another anniversary dead end

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/11952626/madeleine-mccann-suspect-may-not-be-charged-german/


  • #6846
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    IMO there is no effing way the parents killed her.

    In a previous line of work I read a lot of autopsys and criminal murder files. Fascinating stuff.

    But anyway, the lessons I took away is that your biggest obstacle is the body. It is very very very difficult to murder someone and get away with it. The trail of evidence is staggering. Bear in mind the overwhelming majoirty of murders are solved.

    In my mind, there is no way the parents killed their daughter (accident or otherwise) say, drove off in the car for several hours, found a location, so successfully disposed of the body all without being spotted and carried on all Cool and the Gang and have just brazened it out for the past 13years.

    I don't think people appreciate the logistics of doing that and the detailed planning involved never mind a panic spur of the moment on a whim accidental killing and disposal.Oh and all this to their young daughter. No way.

    It reminds me of the crazies who think the 9/11 plane into the Pentagon was a missile and the plane wreackage was staged. Yeah like you can pull **** like that in broad daylight and liberally scatter charred plane parts around the Pentagon and nobody will see you.


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  • #6847
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,066 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    partyguinness wrote: »
    IMO there is no effing way the parents killed her.

    In a previous line of work I read a lot of autopsys and criminal murder files. Fascinating stuff.

    But anyway, the lessons I took away is that your biggest obstacle is the body. It is very very very difficult to murder someone and get away with it. The trail of evidence is staggering. Bear in mind the overwhelming majoirty of murders are solved.

    In my mind, there is no way the parents killed their daughter (accident or otherwise) say, drove off in the car for several hours, found a location, so successfully disposed of the body all without being spotted and carried on all Cool and the Gang and have just brazened it out for the past 13years.

    I don't think people appreciate the logistics of doing that and the detailed planning involved never mind a panic spur of the moment on a whim accidental killing and disposal.Oh and all this to their young daughter. No way.

    It reminds me of the crazies who think the 9/11 plane into the Pentagon was a missile and the plane wreackage was staged. Yeah like you can pull **** like that in broad daylight and liberally scatter charred plane parts around the Pentagon and nobody will see you.

    They didn't have a car to drive off in. Kate was in the company of resort staff as she combed the streets of PDL until dawn, according to Catriona, one of the resorts nannies. They had GNR SAR dogs combing the apartments, resort and PDL in general within 24 hrs.

    There just wasn't the opportunity to hide a child's body that night, particularly when you consider that trained sniffer dogs were on the scene promptly, which actually did seem to pick up a couple possible trails that ended inconclusively.


  • #6848
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cnocbui wrote: »
    They didn't have a car to drive off in. Kate was in the company of resort staff as she combed the streets of PDL until dawn, according to Catriona, one of the resorts nannies. They had GNR SAR dogs combing the apartments, resort and PDL in general within 24 hrs.

    There just wasn't the opportunity to hide a child's body that night, particularly when you consider that trained sniffer dogs were on the scene promptly, which actually did seem to pick up a couple possible trails that ended inconclusively.


    Fair enough re the car which actually makes it less likely.


    I feel that she woke up, wandered out and about and it was a extremely unfortunate that a predator was loitering in the area which is my opinion. A predator who was comfortable and knew the area well and all the comings and goings. A cold clinical bastard- that does not think like the rest of us.


  • #6849
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    I think, personally, that the parents didn't have anything to do with her death or disappearance, whichever. I do, however suspect that their story of checking on the kids every twenty minutes was exaggerated.

    I think they thought 20 minutes sounded acceptable, but it actually slipped to 30 or 40 minutes. And then maybe slipped to an hour.

    There are other questions about their actions. Why TF would you leave the backdoor that leads onto a street open. Instead of the front door thats inside the resort?

    Regarding the evidence by the sniffer dogs, now I love dogs and have seen some do incredible things. However, both McCanns are doctors, with Gerry working at the time in a hospital. Is it possible there was transfer from a patient of his to him that got picked up by the cadever dog? For the blood sniffing dog, could period blood confuse it? Could blood from a skinned knee confuse it? I don't know, but I think its worth pondering.


  • #6850
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think, personally, that the parents didn't have anything to do with her death or disappearance, whichever. I do, however suspect that their story of checking on the kids every twenty minutes was exaggerated.

    I think they thought 20 minutes sounded acceptable, but it actually slipped to 30 or 40 minutes. And then maybe slipped to an hour.

    There are other questions about their actions. Why TF would you leave the backdoor that leads onto a street open. Instead of the front door thats inside the resort?

    Regarding the evidence by the sniffer dogs, now I love dogs and have seen some do incredible things. However, both McCanns are doctors, with Gerry working at the time in a hospital. Is it possible there was transfer from a patient of his to him that got picked up by the cadever dog? For the blood sniffing dog, could period blood confuse it? Could blood from a skinned knee confuse it? I don't know, but I think its worth pondering.

    The front door is not inside the resort . The front door opens on to a concrete area where you can park a car . A small wall separates the car park from a public road .
    That road leads to a t junction and if you turn left its is straight out of the village
    The back door ( sliding door) also is accessible from a public road . It opens on to a patio which has about 8 steps down to a low gate which opens on to a public road . Neither door is in a sheltered resort


  • #6851
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    limnam wrote: »
    Looks like it's another anniversary dead end

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/11952626/madeleine-mccann-suspect-may-not-be-charged-german/

    So the German police are in on the conspiracy?


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  • #6852
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    limnam wrote: »
    Leave it a year or so and hope people forget Amaral said they'd stitch him up ?

    Amaral stitched himself up


  • #6853
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Obviously most of us are of the belief that Madeleine was abducted. I think we're all in agreement also that the parents are guilty in terms of abandoning their children. Let's hope the German police are on to something and this gets sorted one way or another.


  • #6854
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    callmehal wrote: »
    Obviously most of us are of the belief that Madeleine was abducted. I think we're all in agreement also that the parents are guilty in terms of abandoning their children. Let's hope the German police are on to something and this gets sorted one way or another.

    Abandon - No. Poor judgement - Yes


  • #6855
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Abandon - No. Poor judgement - Yes

    Leaving your kids all alone is an unlocked apartment while you partied 4 nights in a row is not poor judgement. Especially when your 3 year old asks you why you weren't there when they were crying. After this, you still decide that having drinks with your pals is more important. That's abandoning your kids.


  • #6856
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    callmehal wrote: »
    Leaving your kids all alone is an unlocked apartment while you partied 4 nights in a row is not poor judgement. Especially when your 3 year old asks you why you weren't there when they were crying. After this, you still decide that having drinks with your pals is more important. That's abandoning your kids.

    There was also the option of the £30 babysitter. It's obvious after the fact that the hotel staff were sneering at how they were treating the children.


  • #6857
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    callmehal wrote: »
    Leaving your kids all alone is an unlocked apartment while you partied 4 nights in a row is not poor judgement. Especially when your 3 year old asks you why you weren't there when they were crying. After this, you still decide that having drinks with your pals is more important. That's abandoning your kids.

    Still not abandoning. Abandon suggests that they left them never to come back.

    It’s also not neglect before someone starts on that.


  • #6858
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    Still not abandoning. Abandon suggests that they left them never to come back.

    It’s also not neglect before someone starts on that.

    I just looked up the dictionary:

    Abandon - cease to support or look after (someone); desert

    Neglect - fail to care for properly.

    It may have been a temporary abandonment but it was abandonment, it also most certainly was neglect. No matter if the peado or whoever took Madeleine, these facts can't be denied.


  • #6859
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    callmehal wrote: »
    I just looked up the dictionary:

    Abandon - cease to support or look after (someone); desert

    Neglect - fail to care for properly.

    It may have been a temporary abandonment but it was abandonment, it also most certainly was neglect. No matter if the peado or whoever took Madeleine, these facts can't be denied.

    It’s neither abandon nor neglect.


  • #6860
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    It’s neither abandon nor neglect.

    Not sure how you can argue it wasn't neglect. It was consistent behaviour that put the children's well being in danger. Not sure what else you would call it.


  • #6861
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,066 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    callmehal wrote: »
    I just looked up the dictionary:

    Abandon - cease to support or look after (someone); desert

    Neglect - fail to care for properly.

    It may have been a temporary abandonment but it was abandonment, it also most certainly was neglect. No matter if the peado or whoever took Madeleine, these facts can't be denied.

    Your 'facts' are just your opinion. Let me help you with the abandonment part:
    AN evil mum was today jailed for murder after she left her three-year-old daughter at home while she went on a week-long partying spree.

    Maria Plenkina, 21, from Kirov, Russia, was sentenced to 13 years after her child, named Kristina, starved to death while home alone.
    Kristina starved to dearth after her mother left her home alone for an entire week

    Her mother Maria Plenkina was jailed for murder and will serve 13 years behind bars

    The child even tried to eat washing powder because she was so hungry, a court heard.

    She was found dead without any clothes in a cold room in a rubbish-strewn flat after eating the small amount of food - yoghurt, chicken and sausages - her mother had left her.

    Judge Roman Bronnikov told a court in Kirov: “Plenkina understood her crime was of a cruel nature.

    “She shut off the water and there was no electricity in the apartment.

    “The girl was dying slowly.”

    During this time the mother “went to bars and nightclubs” and looked for a job, only returning one week later after hearing the child had died.
    A mother-of-three was today starting a 15 months jail sentence after leaving her children home alone in appalling conditions while she enjoyed a sunshine break in Malta.

    The 29-year-old woman left her three young children in a house with no food, clothes or heating, while she basked on a beach abroad.

    The youngsters, aged between five and 10-years-old, did not even have a toothbrush between them during their mother's week-long holiday.

    Those are cases of genuine abandonment.


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  • #6862
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,066 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Not sure how you can argue it wasn't neglect. It was consistent behaviour that put the children's well being in danger. Not sure what else you would call it.

    All parents put their children's well being in danger at some point. Holier than thou nonsense to point the finger in hindsight.


  • #6863
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    Even after all this time I still don't understand how, both parents brought their 3 kids with them on holiday, one went missing And there is no evidence of a abduction,or foul play, no witnesses at all to anything..and the parents just get off,she was their responsibility,nobody else's .. if Kate had gone missing all eyes would be on Gerry ..untill proven otherwise ..

    So bizzare


  • #6864
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    It’s neither abandon nor neglect.

    We've had issues like this before in this thread. I've given you the dictionary definitions. You don't agree with those definitions so you'll need to contact the dictionary people and take it up with them.


  • #6865
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    cnocbui wrote: »
    Your 'facts' are just your opinion. Let me help you with the abandonment part:





    Those are cases of genuine abandonment.

    Again, I used the dictionary definition. It's not opinion, it's fact.

    There are different levels of neglect, there are different levels of abandonment. The examples you've used doesn't take away from the fact that the McCanns neglected their kids.


  • #6866
    callmehal
    Site Banned Posts: 461 ✭✭callmehal


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    cnocbui wrote: »
    All parents put their children's well being in danger at some point. Holier than thou nonsense to point the finger in hindsight.

    All parents don't go out drinking 4 nights in a row while their kids are left alone in an unlocked apartment.


  • #6867
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    marklazarcovic wrote: »
    Even after all this time I still don't understand how, both parents brought their 3 kids with them on holiday, one went missing And there is no evidence of a abduction,or foul play, no witnesses at all to anything..and the parents just get off,she was their responsibility,nobody else's .. if Kate had gone missing all eyes would be on Gerry ..untill proven otherwise ..

    So bizzare

    Bizarre is a word I would describe your post to be honest..

    the parents ‘get off’ with what exactly?

    You said yourself that there is ‘no evidence of foul play and no witnesses at all to anything’ so surely if there is no proof anyone did it you can’t blame anyone?

    Are you saying they get off with neglecting their kids? To me this is all about context, they didn’t leave the kids alone for days or even hours at a time, all couples with them also left their kids. They say they were checking on them regularly. Whether or not you believe them or you think they were so wrong for leaving their kids like that the authorities had compassion for them and decided that the ‘neglect’ was at the lower end of the scale.

    If Kate went missing, Gerry would be innocent until proven guilty, would you not agree?


  • #6868
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Whether you call it abandonment or neglect is somewhat irrelevant.

    It is pretty much undeniable that if the parents had physically been with their daughter that night she would not have disappeared.


  • #6869
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,112 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    callmehal wrote: »
    Leaving your kids all alone is an unlocked apartment while you partied 4 nights in a row is not poor judgement. Especially when your 3 year old asks you why you weren't there when they were crying. After this, you still decide that having drinks with your pals is more important. That's abandoning your kids.

    why are doing this?


  • #6870
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Bizarre is a word I would describe your post to be honest..

    the parents ‘get off’ with what exactly?

    You said yourself that there is ‘no evidence of foul play and no witnesses at all to anything’ so surely if there is no proof anyone did it you can’t blame anyone?

    Are you saying they get off with neglecting their kids? To me this is all about context, they didn’t leave the kids alone for days or even hours at a time, all couples with them also left their kids. They say they were checking on them regularly. Whether or not you believe them or you think they were so wrong for leaving their kids like that the authorities had compassion for them and decided that the ‘neglect’ was at the lower end of the scale.

    If Kate went missing, Gerry would be innocent until proven guilty, would you not agree?

    I would agree yes,but all suspicion would be on him no matter what.

    If they had been given somebody else's child to mind,and that child went missing they would be accountable..why not in this case?


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  • #6871
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Not sure how you can argue it wasn't neglect. It was consistent behaviour that put the children's well being in danger. Not sure what else you would call it.

    I've already said it was poor judgement, the children were left unattended or unaccompanied for a period of time with people checking in on them intermittently. This is not abandonment or neglect or whatever hyperbolic over dramatic term you want to use. The parents have addressed this numerous times, they were a short distance away, they felt the children were safe and they were checking in on them. They've said that they regret this decision and realise it was a mistake. I can't understand how people keep harping on about this time and time again.

    Would everybody here pass the same purity test or better yet, would your own parents pass that purity test?


This discussion has been closed.
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