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Fake watch busters
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59014
He's not wrong about availability of servicing for anything, including fakes. Years back now I went down that rabbit hole to take a look out of curiosity tbh(a chap on another watch forum gave me his login deets to a sekrit forum on the matter). Now I wouldn't know a Rolex reference 12345XYZ if it bit me on the bum and outside of early Oysters and Bubblebacks I've never been a Rolex chap, so there's that and many of the ones being readied up in the forum were pretty obvious lash ups with ageing by coffee and airfix paints, but a couple weren't.
One guy was repping a MilSub and the level of detail he went into was both impressive and frankly horrifying. He had sourced the right original movement(which at one point were cheap enough), modified a fake case, bezel and dial to a scary degree. To the point where he had welded in solid bars, then removed them so it looked like this had been done at some time in its "history", even added a genuine later Mercedes handset, again to make it look like it had been repaired/updated during its lifetime replacing the Omega style hands. His ageing on the dial and bezel was nothing short of amazing tbh. He had spent a fair few bob too. IIRC around the one and a half two grand mark all in. Like I say my knowledge of vintage Rolex would be minimal enough, but I'd have a little more idea of MilSubs and if I saw this in the bottom of a watch lot at auction I'd have been very excited. It was enough to put me off some areas of vintage collecting regardless of budget. I seem to recall even John Mayer's Milsub and other vintage Rolexes had questions over them.
That said the vintage market and vintage dealers and auction houses, including a few respected names have hawked extremely dubious examples down the years. Not direct fakes made of the finest chinesium as such, but plenty of redials and marriages and complete put togethers. The vintage market is chock full of that. Again the big names like Rolex are at the top of the firing line for such dubiousness, but not just them. I've seen Enicar marriages, LIP put togethers, Seiko too and a long list of redials. Some in period as was the thing at the time, most much more recent. Red (3H) Heuer Bunds a good example. Collectors muse over the different "styles" of such and IMHO the vast majority vary in style because they're recent additions. Many entire watches are built last week from parts. It's why parts became so scarce for them and so expensive. At one time you could by all the parts to build a "new" one for around 800-1000 quid and sell it on for double that, so...
This fakery is a rabbit hole indeed. BTW the only "fake" I've had was a giant Rolex wall clock in finest "goldish" given to me as a present in the 80's, as was the fashion of the time.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Oh yeah it's gone way beyond buying a dodgy quartz Rollox from a street urchin in Barcelona for a tenner. That stuff was no real threat to the big names, nor raised questions aver the costs of some of the big names. IE when a fake that's 90% there costs 400 quid and the real deal costs ten times that, some will and do ask questions. Personally I don't as a fake is a fake, but I can see why some might.
Even if a fake isn't a fake though - they aren't paying income taxes, offering servicing and all the plethora a "normal" company would.
Though when a homage company like Steinhart gets to 60-80(?)% there and is only 10% of the price - I think that is when people will be asking - so are we buying only for the badge?
Veblen goods spring to mind
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Even if a fake isn't a fake though - they aren't paying income taxes, offering servicing and all the plethora a "normal" company would.
Though when a homage company like Steinhart gets to 60-80(?)% there and is only 10% of the price - I think that is when people will be asking - so are we buying only for the badge?
Veblen goods spring to mind
It's definitely an inflated market. I was never a big fan of subs, but after seeing what the rep world has to offer it's definitely not a watch I'd be bothered with.
Grand Seiko is one that isn't really copied at all. Other than the really bad €10 quartz rep. The rep world sees it as something buys for the quality and craftsmanship, not for the name.0 -
But as people know too - the last 10% can be 80% of the cost. Some people enjoy knowing that Patek has painstakingly polished the underside of their movement (which is sealed behind a solid caseback anyway) and others are happy that the Hangzhou 5000 has a nice pattern on the visible parts - horses for courses
Better get back to work ha - lunch is over!0 -
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Did he have enough of people promoting the value of fake shi77ers ?
You know, some reps actually go up in value as they have something like a caseshape or dial that people want that's not on the newest version. It's pretty much the same supply and demand that the real world gets except it's illegal. I'm surprised that some people refuse to believe it to be honest.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59014
I don't get fakes myself, not of the hey look I've a Rolex/Breitling/IWC/etc variety anyway. Especially given the "good" fakes can run many hundreds of euro. When for the same money you can get a very nice watch, or even some bloody rare/interesting examples if you go vintage world. OK there's the showing off aspect which is most of it, but vanishingly few people will notice a watch no matter the brand and those that do will be more likely to spot a fake, or will go all golfist Alan Partridge about it anyway. Plus it's like sticking M badges on an entry level Beemer. Kinda pointless. Then again in the car world we've seen the rise of the packs that give you the badges and the like, but not the underpinnings so there's that. I just don't get it myself.
I had to google Yeezys. I'm old. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I don't get fakes myself, not of the hey look I've a Rolex/Breitling/IWC/etc variety anyway. Especially given the "good" fakes can run many hundreds of euro. When for the same money you can get a very nice watch, or even some bloody rare/interesting examples if you go vintage world. OK there's the showing off aspect which is most of it, but vanishingly few people will notice a watch no matter the brand and those that do will be more likely to spot a fake, or will go all golfist Alan Partridge about it anyway. Plus it's like sticking M badges on an entry level Beemer. Kinda pointless. Then again in the car world we've seen the rise of the packs that give you the badges and the like, but not the underpinnings so there's that. I just don't get it myself.
I had to google Yeezys. I'm old.
I think flexing a rep watch or putting m6 badges on a 640d is just drawing attention to the fact you can't afford the real thing.
There is something to be said for frankenwatches and a stage 2 335d. Sure, neither of them are real (or really an m car) but when one has all gen pieces and the other has more hp than the real thing, it's in a different league than the 'can't afford the real thing' one. Obviously the real one is better but the good fake can be pretty good0 -
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If the goal of any watch is matching performance then why bother with a fake watch. Any cheap quartz will do.I think the car v watch is a tough comparison as the car has a measurable performance aWhere watches are more cosmetic. And as long as it looks good, that's all that matters to the buyers. The performance is much the same and even side by side a jeweler could be in trouble telling them apart unless he whips out his loupe.
If they wanted the watch to look good there is million homages of a submariner (as an example) at all price points that look they same.
Cosmetic........And that is it. People wear fakes as they want to fool people. That really is the reason. The only reason. They want that crown on the dial as its a symbol to the feeble minded of success regardless of whether they can afford it.
Rep clothes is another thing, OmegaGene mentioned those godawful runners. But rep clothes is huge. And like watches, the shítty moore street stall standard has long been surpassed. I've seen stuff that comes in the rep bag, in a rep box, wrapped in the logoed tissue paper with all the cards and bits and pieces and even with a receipt from a shop in paris! But cheaper stuff like football jerseys come with "original" tags with holograms. About €15 instead of €80. Handy if you have kids
not that I'd buy anything like that because it's illegal!
So a fake with a fake box and fake tissue and fake everything is better than just the Moore street fake? Again this is by design to fool people (what other use is a receipt from a shop in paris). You say this like its a good thing and are desperate to justify it to yourself that it ok. As bark and jack stated "you ain't saved 80, you have wasted 15".If a new account appears and just starts giving me abuse, we know who it is
I was chatting him earlier. He thought the idea of you sending a snide Rolex to a "watch maker" in Eastern Europe for a "service" was hilarious. I dont think he will waste his time registering to abuse you mate. He will be happy to know you are still thinking of him.
<<insert that enough internet for today.jpeg>>0 -
haha i get you could say hes a bit..... wound up... or a ticking time bomb. take it handy, or dial it back. No need to get so ticked off and you didn't need to give him such a stern tocking to. I'm just clasping at straws now so brace yourself. probably the worst watch jokes ive made to datejust face it they're automatic now. 0
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frozenfrozen wrote: »haha i get you could say hes a bit..... wound up... or a ticking time bomb. take it handy, or dial it back. No need to get so ticked off and you didn't need to give him such a stern tocking to. I'm just clasping at straws now so brace yourself. probably the worst watch jokes ive made to datejust face it they're automatic now.
Stop! Hammertime.
But yeah, I'm with Fitzgeme on the whole thing. A mate bought 2 decent fake Rolexes, I earn less and bought a real OP 39 and I have judged him on it. His job is full of lads putting on the big balls but what's the f'ing point. Only fooling yourself, and I will not listen to a differing opinion.0 -
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Well, the whole point of the conversation is to have something that looks like the gen, and a quartz movement doesn't.If the goal of any watch is matching performance then why bother with a fake watch. Any cheap quartz will do.
OK, you got me there. What's hilarious about that? You can get it done in UK or Ireland too, just happens to be a lot in eastern europe. I genuinely don't understand what's hilarious about thatI was chatting him earlier. He thought the idea of you sending a snide Rolex to a "watch maker" in Eastern Europe for a "service" was hilarious.
Again, someone said they can't be serviced, I was correcting them and explaining that they can be serviced. Some people do the same with genuine watches in that price range as a service in Ireland might not be worth the money. It's something worth looking into, especially if you buy a cheaper vintage watch.frozenfrozen wrote: »haha i get you could say hes a bit..... wound up... or a ticking time bomb. take it handy, or dial it back. No need to get so ticked off and you didn't need to give him such a stern tocking to. I'm just clasping at straws now so brace yourself. probably the worst watch jokes ive made to datejust face it they're automatic now.
Please ban this guy0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59014
True enough. Places like Poland and Ukraine seem to have quite the number of watchmakers and case and dial makers. The vintage pocket watch marriages etc that spring up on ebay usually come from those two places. A service would be a doddle. I know a couple of German vintage guys who get their stuff serviced with a chap in Poland because the local watchmakers either don't want to service them, or charge like wounded bull elephants for the privilege(or make a hames of it). I've had watches serviced in France, the UK, Spain and Germany for different reasons; local expertise, spares availability and price. If I found a guy in Poland or wherever I'd have no issue using them.OK, you got me there. What's hilarious about that? You can get it done in UK or Ireland too, just happens to be a lot in eastern europe. I genuinely don't understand what's hilarious about that
Again, someone said they can't be serviced, I was correcting them and explaining that they can be serviced. Some people do the same with genuine watches in that price range as a service in Ireland might not be worth the money. It's something worth looking into, especially if you buy a cheaper vintage watch.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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