If Work From Home becomes a thing...

jrosen · 22-06-2020 03:14PM

charlietheminxx wrote: »

I really wish my employer was on board with continued work from home. I can split my time for the first month back (from 29 June) and then have to be back in the office full time. The annoying thing is that I've worked well at home and have been told as much. It's really made me re-evaluate what I want from my working life, so I'll be starting to look elsewhere.

Couple of things. You say you have worked well at home. Has your work been consistent at home compared to pre-covid? Work load the same, deadlines etc? Or was your work load reduced.

If you work load has been consistent and you have been doing your job the same at home as you would in the office then you could put forward a convincing argument for some wfh flexibility. But some companies for whatever reason are not supportive of work from home.

charlietheminxx · 22-06-2020 03:27PM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

Can you not push them on it and highlight how much better it is for you, makes you more productive and request the reasons why they are still forcing you back to the office full time.

You should also be highlighting that you should not be returning to the office on the 29th if you can work from home, the 29th is not supposed to signify a mass return to offices it is only supposed to be for those who are unable to do their job from home (i.e. someone who needs to physically do things that is only possible onsite).

On the first half I have done, it's the only reason I have some flexibility for the first month back.

I've also highlighted the guidelines but some areas of the company are not working as well remotely and larger projects can't go ahead with things as they are (have to try and stay vague here!). Even though my work is not in that area because it's a small company we apparently all have to come back in. I had fully expected to be working from home for the next few months.

charlietheminxx · 22-06-2020 03:34PM

jrosen wrote: »

Couple of things. You say you have worked well at home. Has your work been consistent at home compared to pre-covid? Work load the same, deadlines etc? Or was your work load reduced.

For a few weeks it was quieter and my regular workload was lighter (around April) but it ramped up again quickly, and I took on some additional things while it was quiet. My employer did note it at the time and I was thanked for it.

Having spent 3 months at home, I've enjoyed avoiding rush hour traffic and distractions in the office and I just don't want to go back to that 5 days a week. To be fair, I'm in my current role for 4 years and it may be time to move on and get some more diverse experience anyway.

PhilOssophy · 22-06-2020 04:00PM

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

22-06-2020 04:04PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

I'm on a client's site 100% since mid March........ I'm not welded to Teams all day and I take my lunch etc at different times.
What you describe above if it happened when the person was in the office you woiuldn't think too much of it.

limnam · 22-06-2020 04:06PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

People who are lazy/avoid work will do it WFH or in the office.

Good workers will tend to work well from the office or WFH.

Policies should be made to to enable the vast majority

And tooling put in place to deal with the minority

22-06-2020 04:07PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

Could just as easily happen in an office, certainly any office I worked in are fairly flexible and people are never tied to their desk all day could easily call to someone and they wouldn’t be there so would call back later to catch up with them. No big deal and nothing unusual.

We don’t use teams as we use zoom but I also would not see it as ever being a way to contact someone for an impromptu call but rather to be used for pre arranged calls as it would be easy to have the application closed, not see a notification etc if you aren’t using it at the time. Email, phone call or text message would be better as even if someone is away from their computer they will get it and can quickly return.

22-06-2020 04:08PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

I'm in and out of my office all the time, to go for walk, to pop to the shop for a snack. No more or less than when I am WFH. Who never leaves their desk in a day?

snowgal · 22-06-2020 04:20PM

I wonder will alot of people start looking for work else where now? (if it can be found!) where wfh is an option if its not where they currently are. Its making me and 2 of my colleagues think long and hard about it to be honest.....And I think this is just the beginning. For many employees, they haven't even got back to work yet. Itll be over the next 4 weeks or so. I think when you get back into it properly, it feels very depressing after having that freedom to wfh for months...

PhilOssophy · 22-06-2020 04:20PM

I know it could happen in the office but as far as Management are concerned, they will find the person in the office!
In our work situation, it is expected that people answer teams.
Don't get me wrong I want WFH to work, but as far as our Management are concerned if they don't get quick responses they will pull the plug as soon as they can. Things like this just help their cause.
They could understand a 10-15 minute delay in response but an hour, especially when I had to report back to them, is just not good enough for them!

22-06-2020 04:47PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

........
They could understand a 10-15 minute delay in response but an hour, especially when I had to report back to them, is just not good enough for them!

So managers ask you, you ask someone else and the answer is needed within an hour?

Seems a tad layered tbh ......

Stheno · 22-06-2020 04:50PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I know it could happen in the office but as far as Management are concerned, they will find the person in the office!
In our work situation, it is expected that people answer teams.
Don't get me wrong I want WFH to work, but as far as our Management are concerned if they don't get quick responses they will pull the plug as soon as they can. Things like this just help their cause.
They could understand a 10-15 minute delay in response but an hour, especially when I had to report back to them, is just not good enough for them!

Could you not have phoned them on their mobile?

PhilOssophy · 22-06-2020 07:30PM

Stheno wrote: »

Could you not have phoned them on their mobile?

I tried that as well, to no avail. Rang out.....but also, Teams is our key communications tool. If he was gone for 15 minutes, I would have said fine, he was getting tea or some fresh air.

I'm not trying to cause a row or anything, I am just saying that this is why WFH will just be abandoned in so many places. Sadly.

Augeo wrote: »

So managers ask you, you ask someone else and the answer is needed within an hour?

Seems a tad layered tbh ......

Yeah, there is a thing called layers in most organisations. Unless you want to tell the CFO to go get something off a contractor himself!

kippy · 22-06-2020 07:54PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I tried that as well, to no avail. Rang out.....but also, Teams is our key communications tool. If he was gone for 15 minutes, I would have said fine, he was getting tea or some fresh air.

I'm not trying to cause a row or anything, I am just saying that this is why WFH will just be abandoned in so many places. Sadly.

Yeah, there is a thing called layers in most organisations. Unless you want to tell the CFO to go get something off a contractor himself!

This is not a normal WFH environment though.
I don't know wether in that example the person has kids or not but I know it's hard to be "at work" with all the time with kids at home etc........

afatbollix · 22-06-2020 08:01PM

Well, Its come through, We are closing our office at the end of the month.

I've got 2 weeks to move our server room :rolleyes:

The COO has gone to a holiday home in Italy till it blows over.

They hope to open a new office when offices can open again but I foresee a smaller office just for management.

He did say that for tax reasons they will only hire people in the country we are in than hire cheaper on the outside.

Stheno · 22-06-2020 08:10PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I tried that as well, to no avail. Rang out.....but also, Teams is our key communications tool. If he was gone for 15 minutes, I would have said fine, he was getting tea or some fresh air.

Where I work we would block our calendars if we were away for a while. However we wouldn't be strict 9-5 and most people in my office are quite experienced. It's not unusual for someone to be away for an hour or more. A few weeks ago I took an hour and a bit to get tyres for my car

But I'd start early or finish late in that case and when away I'd have my phone with me

PhilOssophy · 22-06-2020 08:24PM

Stheno wrote: »

Where I work we would block our calendars if we were away for a while. However we wouldn't be strict 9-5 and most people in my office are quite experienced. It's not unusual for someone to be away for an hour or more. A few weeks ago I took an hour and a bit to get tyres for my car

But I'd start early or finish late in that case and when away I'd have my phone with me

+1 to that. I say on my Skype/Teams "On lunch back at 2" or when I had a doctors appointment recently "Doctors appointment back in 1 hr - on mobile" or something to that effect.
Now we urgently needed the data and the other guy who could provide it was off sick, so he was the key contact. It isn't a place with a big overtime culture. A bit is expected occasionally but not much.

I guess it depends on the industry.

22-06-2020 08:28PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

.....

Yeah, there is a thing called layers in most organisations. Unless you want to tell the CFO to go get something off a contractor himself!

Ah yes, you're playing hang the contractor.

PhilOssophy · 22-06-2020 08:36PM

Augeo wrote: »

Ah yes, you're playing hang the contractor.

That's the best (and most inaccurate) jumping to conclusions I have come across today. I don't see where you came up with that theory but I'll get the popcorn and when I come back hopefully you'll have explained why you came to that conclusion!!

22-06-2020 10:32PM

It was tongue in cheek but you seem to be working somewhere where folk are expected to be chained to the desk.

Several folk have mentioned what you describe isn't at all a problem (or shouldn't be) yet you reckon it's why WFH won't fly and described it as 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.

Unless it's call centre esque low skilled work I don't understand the problem TBH.

Why can't a CFO liaise with a contractor BTW? Why do you have to be the go between? Are contractors 2nd class citizens in your place of work...... Seems strange to mention the employment status of the person TBH.

lickalot · 22-06-2020 10:45PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

Really? In my work place i'd struggle to get anyone really unless I had a meeting setup with them or a few emails back and forth first.

This sounds like any normal work place.

Mrs OBumble · 22-06-2020 10:51PM

afatbollix wrote: »

Well, Its come through, We are closing our office at the end of the month.

I've got 2 weeks to move our server room :rolleyes:

The COO has gone to a holiday home in Italy till it blows over.

They hope to open a new office when offices can open again but I foresee a smaller office just for management.

He did say that for tax reasons they will only hire people in the country we are in than hire cheaper on the outside.

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

limnam · 22-06-2020 11:25PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

Why do you keep bringing up issues with revenue?

afatbollix · 23-06-2020 10:20AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

We will have a 'Serviced' office where our company address will be. It will have space for 6 desks.

ELM327 · 23-06-2020 10:24AM

Stheno wrote: »

Where I work we would block our calendars if we were away for a while. However we wouldn't be strict 9-5 and most people in my office are quite experienced. It's not unusual for someone to be away for an hour or more. A few weeks ago I took an hour and a bit to get tyres for my car

But I'd start early or finish late in that case and when away I'd have my phone with me

Same, and we wouldnt even necessarily have to bother with the start early/finish late as we don't have the rigid approach to "hours spent at the desk". Which works well for the company as we usually do more than 40!

If you havent a meeting blocked then , unless someone is showing as green/available, you should not expect an immediate response.

ELM327 · 23-06-2020 10:25AM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

I suppose it will not change.

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 11:10AM

Augeo wrote: »

It was tongue in cheek but you seem to be working somewhere where folk are expected to be chained to the desk.

It was in its asre tongue in cheek. Chained to desk - where did I say that? I didn't say anything of the sort. If anything, we are afforded plenty of flexibility, but people are expected to reply in a timely manner during the working day. I think that is the way in most organisations and I don't see what you think is so unusual about that? We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?

Augeo wrote: »

Several folk have mentioned what you describe isn't at all a problem (or shouldn't be) yet you reckon it's why WFH won't fly and described it as 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways.

Augeo wrote: »

Why can't a CFO liaise with a contractor BTW? Why do you have to be the go between? Are contractors 2nd class citizens in your place of work...... Seems strange to mention the employment status of the person TBH.

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different! I don't see how or what you find so strange about that? If you have an issue with me mentioning his employment status, when there was no intention to suggest that he was a 2nd class citizen (which they are not treated like in our organisation at all), the issue is all yours.

Anyway, you have a good day.

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 11:11AM

lickalot wrote: »

Really? In my work place i'd struggle to get anyone really unless I had a meeting setup with them or a few emails back and forth first.

This sounds like any normal work place.

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

Mrs OBumble · 23-06-2020 11:22AM

afatbollix wrote: »

We will have a 'Serviced' office where our company address will be. It will have space for 6 desks.

So you've not actually closing the office, you're just moving to a smaller one.

As to why I keep bringing up Revenue issues: tax and company registration issues have major impacts on what businesses need to to to operate within the law. There are others too, eg health and safety, but tax issues are better understood and more regularly audited by people who apply penalties.

23-06-2020 11:25AM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

............

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways..............

You seem a great fit to your company, I reckon you'll do well there.
I thought it's a call centre as it seems a micro managed p1ss hole where someone not replying for an hour or so is seen as a problem and folk go ranting and raving about how such behaviour will ruin work from home for all staff........ " 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.
You come across like a wannabe prefect or something tbh

If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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