If Work From Home becomes a thing...

snowgal

Augeo wrote: »

A decent proportion of managers are likely fearful they might be deemed surplus to requirements themselves if their teams are seen to be performing well with WFH. Many organisations have too many leads and managers ....... of course their teams might well be performing well with WFH with the assistance/guidance of the managers too of course.

this is exactly what I think the issue is with some Managers who seem to want employees back at their desks. I see it with my own Manager. After being home this long we can go about our business just fine without much input at all from our Director. While back in the office before this, we now all see how they solely went from desk to desk looking for this and that, calling pointless meetings, and meetings about meetings, so much time wasting...I genuinely believe they are worried about being called out on what they actually do......

BrianD3

snowgal wrote: »

this is exactly what I think the issue is with some Managers who seem to want employees back at their desks. I see it with my own Manager. After being home this long we can go about our business just fine without much input at all from our Director. While back in the office before this, we now all see how they solely went from desk to desk looking for this and that, calling pointless meetings, and meetings about meetings, so much time wasting...I genuinely believe they are worried about being called out on what they actually do......

Another great one in the public service is "work" which involves travelling to meetings, training, seminars, conferences in hotels etc.

To sum up, you get away from the office so you don't have to deal with actual issues, claim generous travel and overnight subsistence, get your dinner handed to you, talk sh*te with like minded individuals while scoffing croissants at tea break. Then come back to the office having learned f*ck all and even if you did learn something, don't share it or do anything productive with it. Rinse and repeat, often a couple of days per week. All funded by the taxpayer.

Now that all this nonsense has stopped and probably won't restart, what are these people going to do with the spare time that they must have?

Technocentral

snowgal wrote: »

this is exactly what I think the issue is with some Managers who seem to want employees back at their desks. I see it with my own Manager. After being home this long we can go about our business just fine without much input at all from our Director. While back in the office before this, we now all see how they solely went from desk to desk looking for this and that, calling pointless meetings, and meetings about meetings, so much time wasting...I genuinely believe they are worried about being called out on what they actually do......

Intelligent adults can perform their own jobs without supervision, managers and management is a nothing job that harks back to the 19th Century.

AndrewJRenko

BrianD3 wrote: »

Another great one in the public service is "work" which involves travelling to meetings, training, seminars, conferences in hotels etc.

To sum up, you get away from the office so you don't have to deal with actual issues, claim generous travel and overnight subsistence, get your dinner handed to you, talk sh*te with like minded individuals while scoffing croissants at tea break. Then come back to the office having learned f*ck all and even if you did learn something, don't share it or do anything productive with it. Rinse and repeat, often a couple of days per week. All funded by the taxpayer.

Now that all this nonsense has stopped and probably won't restart, what are these people going to do with the spare time that they must have?

You think the public sector has a monopoly on conferences and training? Haaaahaahaa. You've heard of the Web Summit and other junkets, right?

Though training and professional networking is often valuable.

Remember the old story about the Finance Director who asked: "What if we pay to train all these people and they leave?". The HR director answered: "What if we don't train them and they stay?".

Mr.S wrote: »

I feel the same way really, I miss the social side to the job and while we do have non-work chats throughout the day online, it's not the "same'. I don't think I could do permanent work from home. When we're back to an office i'll probably do 3 days WFH / 2 days in the office.

I'd be similar to you, but the problem with a 2-day / 3-day split is equipment. I can't be carrying 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset in and out every week.

Tails142

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd be similar to you, but the problem with a 2-day / 3-day split is equipment. I can't be carrying 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset in and out every week.

Yeah, pity there's no solution to that problem. Total deal breaker

andekwarhola

Live in Dublin and I'm grateful to have the option of WFH but I don't want to do it all the time. Not so much the social side, I just like the demarcation of work and leisure space.

Hopefully I can go back to 3-4 days office working when this is over.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd be similar to you, but the problem with a 2-day / 3-day split is equipment. I can't be carrying 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset in and out every week.

You could you know...get a set for home and a set for work.

kippy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You think the public sector has a monopoly on conferences and training? Haaaahaahaa. You've heard of the Web Summit and other junkets, right?

Though training and professional networking is often valuable.

Remember the old story about the Finance Director who asked: "What if we pay to train all these people and they leave?". The HR director answered: "What if we don't train them and they stay?".



I'd be similar to you, but the problem with a 2-day / 3-day split is equipment. I can't be carrying 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset in and out every week.

A problem solved with a couple of hundred euro max, if even.

onrail

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd be similar to you, but the problem with a 2-day / 3-day split is equipment. I can't be carrying 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, headset in and out every week.

That’s the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever seen on boards.

Lumen

I've been WFH full time for a year now after closing down a serviced office in Dublin.

Our company was pretty much all remote before COVID, we had a couple of other offices and we might open them back up for staff that don't have a quiet enough environment at home.

Working remotely for a company with an office mentality is going to be tough. If your company isn't serious about it, it's better to just switch jobs to one that fully embraces remote. And then wait a year until you're absolutely sure you like it before moving out of Dublin.

The Spider

helimachoptor wrote: »

Agree, have friends/colleagues working from their bed if they're house sharing and because they just don't have any other practical space.

House sharing will be gone now with WFH why would you share a house with a bunch of strangers or even friends, when you can move to another town or city and buy your own place?

Blanco100

The Spider wrote: »

House sharing will be gone now with WFH why would you share a house with a bunch of strangers or even friends, when you can move to another town or city and buy your own place?

Eventually wages will reflect where you live, even if working for same organisation. Already happening in US, facebook are paying same workers different wage for same job. If you live in a high cost location you will be paid rate reflective of high cost.

If you live in cheaper area, it will be reflective of that rate.

Not saying its right, but just saying this is a practice that is already in place.

markpb

The Spider wrote: »

House sharing will be gone now with WFH why would you share a house with a bunch of strangers or even friends, when you can move to another town or city and buy your own place?

You're assuming that the only thing guiding peoples choice of where to live is their job. What about the proximity of cultural things like cinemas, theatres, concerts, etc. What about having an airport, large shops, etc nearby? What about having friends or family nearby. Young people in particular are more likely to want to share a house or live in co-living in Dublin than buy their own house in Portlaoise (for example), especially if they have moved from another country to work here.

ILikeBoats

Yeah, you'll need to declare where you are living and wages will be paid accordingly

JimmyVik

Blanco100 wrote: »

Eventually wages will reflect where you live, even if working for same organisation. Already happening in US, facebook are paying same workers different wage for same job. If you live in a high cost location you will be paid rate reflective of high cost.

If you live in cheaper area, it will be reflective of that rate.

Not saying its right, but just saying this is a practice that is already in place.

I know people who moved down the country to work from home when thier company agreed to it.
Now they are stuck with the same company. Dont get decent pay rises or bonuses. When they bring it up they are told to leave if they want.
But now that they have moved to the country there are no jobs around them, at least paying anywhere near the same.
So once they quit they will be taking a pay cut if they can get a job where they live now.
Company knows this and plays along by slowly eroding their salary and bonus.

Lumen

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know people who moved down the country to work from home when thier company agreed to it.
Now they are stuck with the same company. Dont get decent pay rises or bonuses. When they bring it up they are told to leave if they want.
But now that they have moved to the country there are no jobs around them, at least paying anywhere near the same.
So once they quit they will be taking a pay cut if they can get a job where they live now.
Company knows this and plays along by slowly eroding their salary and bonus.

Just get another remote job?

The Spider

Blanco100 wrote: »

Eventually wages will reflect where you live, even if working for same organisation. Already happening in US, facebook are paying same workers different wage for same job. If you live in a high cost location you will be paid rate reflective of high cost.

If you live in cheaper area, it will be reflective of that rate.

Not saying its right, but just saying this is a practice that is already in place.

Saw that in the states, but you could make the argument, that moving from san francisco to texas would be like moving from Ireland to Spain.

All of these things come down to availability of talent, so for instance f theres a shrtage of full stack developers or UX designers then the salaries will go up to tempt the existing ones to move.

Although I have no doubt some companies will try the paying less for location, but I do seem to remember having it drummed into me by HR before I interviewed people, that a company cant ask where you live in an interview as that may make them biased towards who they hire, and could potentially be sued, not sure how that would work with Covid though.

Blanco100

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know people who moved down the country to work from home when thier company agreed to it.
Now they are stuck with the same company. Dont get decent pay rises or bonuses. When they bring it up they are told to leave if they want.
But now that they have moved to the country there are no jobs around them, at least paying anywhere near the same.
So once they quit they will be taking a pay cut if they can get a job where they live now.
Company knows this and plays along by slowly eroding their salary and bonus.

People need to start asking questions as to how much they need in fairness. Earning Dublin money in Leitrim should be incentive enough.

Bonuses should be agreed in advance pending certain targets are met sure, but I wouldn't be expecting the pay rise. The wages are higher in Dublin because many factors are taken into account.

Blanco100

Blanco100 wrote: »

Eventually wages will reflect where you live, even if working for same organisation. Already happening in US, facebook are paying same workers different wage for same job. If you live in a high cost location you will be paid rate reflective of high cost.

If you live in cheaper area, it will be reflective of that rate.

Not saying its right, but just saying this is a practice that is already in place.

that might be right if you work for an Irish company. Not so much for an MNC. Mine, with a presence in 30 odd countries, isn't going to split Ireland further down into regions for the purposes of their weightings. It's not worth the effort

JimmyVik

Lumen wrote: »

Just get another remote job?

You make it sound so easy

Blanco100

Deleted User wrote: »

that might be right if you work for an Irish company. Not so much for an MNC. Mine, with a presence in 30 odd countries, isn't going to split Ireland further down into regions for the purposes of their weightings. It's not worth the effort

Heres hoping!

But i'd argue the larger companies are the ones who may be able to properly means test this.

Its probably another 5 years away in Ireland though.

Blanco100

The Spider wrote: »

Saw that in the states, but you could make the argument, that moving from san francisco to texas would be like moving from Ireland to Spain.

All of these things come down to availability of talent, so for instance f theres a shrtage of full stack developers or UX designers then the salaries will go up to tempt the existing ones to move.

Although I have no doubt some companies will try the paying less for location, but I do seem to remember having it drummed into me by HR before I interviewed people, that a company cant ask where you live in an interview as that may make them biased towards who they hire, and could potentially be sued, not sure how that would work with Covid though.

Would your address not be a standard inclusion in your CV?

JimmyVik

Blanco100 wrote: »

Would your address not be a standard inclusion in your CV?

Pretty sure a CV without an address would be thrown in the bin in my place.
If you were found to have lied about anything at all on your CV you can probably be fired.

Lumen

JimmyVik wrote: »

You make it sound so easy

Actually, whatever about seeking a job, it's quite hard to hire remotely.

My company uses Indeed, and you have to specify a town/city for the job ad, so we end up semi-randomly picking a couple of cities near where we have people at the moment.

It's really stupid.

Dial Hard

JimmyVik wrote: »

Pretty sure a CV without an address would be thrown in the bin in my place.
If you were found to have lied about anything at all on your CV you can probably be fired.

I haven't had my address on my CV in about ten years.

Mrs OBumble

ILikeBoats wrote: »

Yeah, you'll need to declare where you are living and wages will be paid accordingly

Declaring your residential address is already a Revenue requirement.

Jim Root

We’ve had a few staff move down the country already to try and force the issue...don’t wanna pay Dublin rents anymore...going to be some showdown when they are instructed to come back.

Electric Sheep

Blanco100 wrote: »

Would your address not be a standard inclusion in your CV?

Definitely not the norm in the US.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Declaring your residential address is already a Revenue requirement.

Declaring an address you have access to is all that’s needed, doesn’t actually have to be where you live.

I’ve never changed my address for anything including revenue from my home address despite living on the other side of the country at various different address for quite a few years at one stage (though b back again now). My siblings are the same all official letter go to home, and none of them have lived at home for years.

lickalot

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Definitely not the norm in the US.

Or Ireland.