If Work From Home becomes a thing...

beauf wrote: »

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

whats it someone said about their neighbour and a new car, it didnt matter what kind of sh!t it was as long as it was steaming fresh,

its a bit like that, send them something new, might not be what they asked for but will keep the wolf from the door

beauf

Augeo wrote: »

With company owners as Cyrus mentions it's very much things are done how they like them done. They are a breed apart IMO in many cases.

I worked for a company once where the owner was running it, maybe 15 employees ......... was grim enough at times, it was my 2nd proper job and my last one as an employee....... never again all going well.

Oh I agree.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different!

Its certainly not always like this, anywhere I have worked has been fairly flat from a hierarchy perspective. There are the teams and then management, or teams, high level management and one or two very senior management/CEO/site director level etc.

I communicate with management level if its something they need to know, I communicate with top level if its directly involving them or in most cases I deal with the external people myself and don't involve any internal management.

I've always been big into networking also though and have always got talking to senior people on nights out, building up relationships with them and end up having their ear which is always helpful.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

Its probably a little different as most of the projects I work on I look after most aspects and only need input here and there from other people but pretty much any interaction would be prearranged as I know others are busy with their own work, are working their own hours or taking lunch when they want, have appointments, are on days off etc etc. So in most cases an email would be sent to arrange a call with a few days notice etc. I deal mostly with external people though also which means schedules are totally different at times.

The fact is I'd never have someone looking for me with the need for an immediate response that just not how our projects work the exception being the last few hours before a deadline when its all hands on deck and you know this well in advance.

Also for collaborative work we tend to always used shared documents like google docs or word online so people add their input in their own time rather than it having to be requested.

Cyrus wrote: »

its fair to say people work in different organisations with different ways of working, i have experienced a lot of variety but where i am now is similar to what that poster is describing, if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week.

If we are doing something we are doing it now.

It's a very different way of working for sure, as above thats not how projects run in many places and I'd see it as poorly managed form one side or another if things suddenly pop up like that (but of course it can be different in different industries so not saying you are poorly managing things). I know weeks in advance when there is going to be a day or two of all hands on deck and quick response times needed to push something over the line but outside of this there is nothing needing such urgency. That's not to say things aren't very busy but busy working away alone and if I need something an email would be sent and if a call or meeting (if we are onsite) is needed it would be prearranged even with internal colleagues.

beauf wrote: »

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

With company owners as Cyrus mentions it's very much things are done how they like them done. They are a breed apart IMO in many cases.

I worked for a company once where the owner was running it, maybe 15 employees ......... was grim enough at times, it was my 2nd proper job and my last one as an employee....... never again all going well.

The Spider

PhilOssophy wrote: »

+1 to that. I say on my Skype/Teams "On lunch back at 2" or when I had a doctors appointment recently "Doctors appointment back in 1 hr - on mobile" or something to that effect.
Now we urgently needed the data and the other guy who could provide it was off sick, so he was the key contact. It isn't a place with a big overtime culture. A bit is expected occasionally but not much.

I guess it depends on the industry.

Bad planning and ad hoc systems, worked in a large organisation that had out of whack systems, product development ran like clockowork between UX development etc. Marketing different kettle of fish, had to be able to talk to someone at the drop of a hat because of their latest random idea.

beauf

Cyrus wrote: »

.... if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week. ...

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

beauf

Steve Jobs was known for calling in the early hours and expecting people to drop what ever they are doing (like sleeping) and start working. But then hes also known as being a Jerk

This is really how you manage your work, team or business. Some people like everything to be a crisis, constant firefight, and most of the time its isn't. Like the way some people think everything is urgent when it isn't. It becomes habit, and ingrained. Not usually a nice place to work.

But there are ways of pushing back. My favorite is to ask them a question that sounds like they need to answer before I have to do anything but often isn't required. Or ask for a spec. They usually go away before realising its not needed.

ELM327 wrote: »

That sounds like micromanaged hell.

Have you ever watched the film "Office Space". You should.

its fair to say people work in different organisations with different ways of working, i have experienced a lot of variety but where i am now is similar to what that poster is describing, if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week.

If we are doing something we are doing it now.

is it efficient, no, is it the best way of managing a project no. But the owner is a multi multi millionaire so he kinda things his way is right, and he pays my bills so what ya gonna do :pac:

hots wrote: »

True enough, in that scenario would you not have a mobile number for him to get you on though or something? I assume if you're in a meeting then their not going to be flat out pinging your Teams furious you're not responding?

absolutely and he will call landline mobile etc but the poster had said he also called the persons mobile as well teams (and at least in my organisation a call on teams also calls the teams app on your mobile)

The Spider

jrosen wrote: »

Couple of things. You say you have worked well at home. Has your work been consistent at home compared to pre-covid? Work load the same, deadlines etc? Or was your work load reduced.

If you work load has been consistent and you have been doing your job the same at home as you would in the office then you could put forward a convincing argument for some wfh flexibility. But some companies for whatever reason are not supportive of work from home.

Just get a different job, I think companies that don't offer work from home deserve to lose their talented staff, they're contributing to the skewed life imbalances in Ireland.

I think a lot of them are going to find out the hard way, and yes as has been mentioned middle managers will find it harder to get ahead not being in the office or they may become surplass to requirements as their teams carry on without much interference from them.

I understand the fear and need to get back to an office if you essentially aren't producing outputs but your team is

hots

Cyrus wrote: »

folks every organisation is different, where i work if the CEO wants something and someone has disappeared for an hour and cant be contacted he goes mental, lunch or not.

but everyone here (of a certain level of seniority at least) understands that and works within those parameters.

like with everything its a decision, are you paid enough to put up with it and happy to do so, if yes then carry on, if no, go somewhere else more relaxed

True enough, in that scenario would you not have a mobile number for him to get you on though or something? I assume if you're in a meeting then their not going to be flat out pinging your Teams furious you're not responding?

ELM327

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

That sounds like micromanaged hell.

Have you ever watched the film "Office Space". You should.

The Spider

Blanco100 wrote: »

Would your address not be a standard inclusion in your CV?

Nope, cant actually remember getting a cv with an address on it, gdpr on top that
Will prevent that. You don't have to provide any information outside of your ability to attend and perform the job in question.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

...........We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?
............

I do indeed, I also know what a plan is. I find them helpful to avoid things needing to be done last minute

folks every organisation is different, where i work if the CEO wants something and someone has disappeared for an hour and cant be contacted he goes mental, lunch or not.

but everyone here (of a certain level of seniority at least) understands that and works within those parameters.

like with everything its a decision, are you paid enough to put up with it and happy to do so, if yes then carry on, if no, go somewhere else more relaxed

hots

PhilOssophy wrote: »

It was in its asre tongue in cheek. Chained to desk - where did I say that? I didn't say anything of the sort. If anything, we are afforded plenty of flexibility, but people are expected to reply in a timely manner during the working day. I think that is the way in most organisations and I don't see what you think is so unusual about that? We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways.

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different! I don't see how or what you find so strange about that? If you have an issue with me mentioning his employment status, when there was no intention to suggest that he was a 2nd class citizen (which they are not treated like in our organisation at all), the issue is all yours.

Anyway, you have a good day.

Someone not returning an IM in an hour isn't unreasonable in any org I've ever worked with, unless there's an expectation for it previously set (like it's a go-live day or they know they are needed at the drop of a hat). An hour could feasibly be someone's lunch break, I assume them not responding because of that reason would be ok?

Generally if you haven't set the expectation that they need to be able to respond with an hour at all times, that's on you. If the culture is that you do have then that's their fault. I would see it as a very heavy mgmt style where there's no flexibility to allow 60 minutes away from the desk though.

If you're pro-wfh take it as a chance to set the expectation that if people are away from their desk then they need to put it in their calendar/ set their teams status or let X people know.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

............

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways..............

You seem a great fit to your company, I reckon you'll do well there.
I thought it's a call centre as it seems a micro managed p1ss hole where someone not replying for an hour or so is seen as a problem and folk go ranting and raving about how such behaviour will ruin work from home for all staff........ " 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.
You come across like a wannabe prefect or something tbh

Mrs OBumble

afatbollix wrote: »

We will have a 'Serviced' office where our company address will be. It will have space for 6 desks.

So you've not actually closing the office, you're just moving to a smaller one.

As to why I keep bringing up Revenue issues: tax and company registration issues have major impacts on what businesses need to to to operate within the law. There are others too, eg health and safety, but tax issues are better understood and more regularly audited by people who apply penalties.

lickalot wrote: »

Really? In my work place i'd struggle to get anyone really unless I had a meeting setup with them or a few emails back and forth first.

This sounds like any normal work place.

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

Augeo wrote: »

It was tongue in cheek but you seem to be working somewhere where folk are expected to be chained to the desk.

It was in its asre tongue in cheek. Chained to desk - where did I say that? I didn't say anything of the sort. If anything, we are afforded plenty of flexibility, but people are expected to reply in a timely manner during the working day. I think that is the way in most organisations and I don't see what you think is so unusual about that? We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?

Augeo wrote: »

Several folk have mentioned what you describe isn't at all a problem (or shouldn't be) yet you reckon it's why WFH won't fly and described it as 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways.

Augeo wrote: »

Why can't a CFO liaise with a contractor BTW? Why do you have to be the go between? Are contractors 2nd class citizens in your place of work...... Seems strange to mention the employment status of the person TBH.

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different! I don't see how or what you find so strange about that? If you have an issue with me mentioning his employment status, when there was no intention to suggest that he was a 2nd class citizen (which they are not treated like in our organisation at all), the issue is all yours.

Anyway, you have a good day.

ELM327

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

I suppose it will not change.

ELM327

Stheno wrote: »

Where I work we would block our calendars if we were away for a while. However we wouldn't be strict 9-5 and most people in my office are quite experienced. It's not unusual for someone to be away for an hour or more. A few weeks ago I took an hour and a bit to get tyres for my car

But I'd start early or finish late in that case and when away I'd have my phone with me

Same, and we wouldnt even necessarily have to bother with the start early/finish late as we don't have the rigid approach to "hours spent at the desk". Which works well for the company as we usually do more than 40!

If you havent a meeting blocked then , unless someone is showing as green/available, you should not expect an immediate response.

afatbollix

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

We will have a 'Serviced' office where our company address will be. It will have space for 6 desks.

limnam

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

Why do you keep bringing up issues with revenue?

Mrs OBumble

afatbollix wrote: »

Well, Its come through, We are closing our office at the end of the month.

I've got 2 weeks to move our server room :rolleyes:

The COO has gone to a holiday home in Italy till it blows over.

They hope to open a new office when offices can open again but I foresee a smaller office just for management.

He did say that for tax reasons they will only hire people in the country we are in than hire cheaper on the outside.

What are you telling the CRO and Revenue about your registered place of business?

lickalot

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Tried to ring somebody on Teams an hour ago, no answer. Just arrived back and said "I'll do that for you now".
This is why WFH isn't going to be a thing. The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody. Companies won't want a "you can have it, you can't" style arrangement, it'll just create too much hassle. Easiest to just get everybody back in. Pity as was a great opportunity to prove it can work.

Really? In my work place i'd struggle to get anyone really unless I had a meeting setup with them or a few emails back and forth first.

This sounds like any normal work place.

It was tongue in cheek but you seem to be working somewhere where folk are expected to be chained to the desk.

Several folk have mentioned what you describe isn't at all a problem (or shouldn't be) yet you reckon it's why WFH won't fly and described it as 'The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody'.

Unless it's call centre esque low skilled work I don't understand the problem TBH.

Why can't a CFO liaise with a contractor BTW? Why do you have to be the go between? Are contractors 2nd class citizens in your place of work...... Seems strange to mention the employment status of the person TBH.

Augeo wrote: »

Ah yes, you're playing hang the contractor.

That's the best (and most inaccurate) jumping to conclusions I have come across today. I don't see where you came up with that theory but I'll get the popcorn and when I come back hopefully you'll have explained why you came to that conclusion!!

PhilOssophy wrote: »

.....

Yeah, there is a thing called layers in most organisations. Unless you want to tell the CFO to go get something off a contractor himself!

Ah yes, you're playing hang the contractor.