Lenovo IdeaPad 5 15ARE05 15.6'' Ryzen AMD 16Gb DDR4 3200Mhz 256Gb SSD - â‚¬490

Dante7 · 18-06-2020 9:33pm

ipnface wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. The drivers are installed and vantage says everything is up to date. Maybe they omitted that piece of hardware by accident, no way to tell though.

Did you add the fingerprint reader when you ordered? It doesn't come with the laptop by default, it's a €10 optional extra.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 9:38pm

FFVII wrote: »

That's exactly what it means unless you're paying for extended support.

It isn't exactly what it means, in fact. I haven't had an update installed in years and it still works perfectly fine. Being careful is more important than any update or antivirus. For as long as W7 is even a fraction as popular as it is now there will be people making new drivers and fixes. The big problem getting it installed on this laptop is that NVMe and USB3 weren't even a thing when W7 was made. There is a fancy tool I used to slipstream hotfixes onto the installation media that had it up and running in an hour.

Hurrache wrote: »

It's a common Windows 10 issue across manufacturers, disabling fast start up and always on power for the USB ports can help. Some people do blame Lenovo Vantage.

On the win 7 v 10, I use both for work, much prefer 10, it's been rock solid for me.

It really is just a matter of preference. I hear a lot of IT people swear by it. But I feel like people who are highly dependant on a mouse despise it! (Also people who don't like irreversibly losing hours of work hate it too) I find the window arranging and navigating folders to be a nightmare.

Windows 7:
Windows button -> Here's a list of your programs
windows button -> My computer -> Here are your files

Windows 10:
Windows button -> GIANT IRRELEVANT TILES/APPS/NEWS/PROMOTIONS SHIFTING ALL OVER THE PLACE
Windows button -> File Explorer -> Who the hell knows where your files are. in the cloud somewhere probably

Right this moment it has taken over a minute just to login to the desktop on my W10 work laptop. It has taken 14 seconds to fully boot my W7 laptop from cold.

ipnface · 18-06-2020 9:42pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Did you add the fingerprint reader when you ordered? It doesn't come with the laptop by default, it's a €10 optional extra.

Yes I did that's why I'm trying to get it to work.

18-06-2020 9:44pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

Right this moment it has taken over a minute just to login to the desktop on my W10 work laptop. It has taken 14 seconds to fully boot my W7 laptop.

I'm not going to comment on the rest of the what you said as it's drivel, but Windows 10 is known to boot, go to sleep and wake from sleep significantly faster than Windows 7, and it's not subjective (e.g. here is some data). If that's not the case for you then it's because of your personal setup on the two devices, or because of a placebo if you had both them both on the same device.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 9:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's not the case for you then it's because of your personal setup on the two devices, or because of a placebo if you had both them both on the same device.

bfa1509 wrote: »

Windows 7
UserBenchmarks:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 4800U - 82.9%
SSD: Nvme KBG40ZNT512G TOS 512GB - 256.2%
RAM: Samsung M471A1G44AB0-CWE 2x8GB - 77%
MBD: Lenovo 81YQ

Windows 10:
UserBenchmarks: Game 25%, Desk 65%, Work 69%
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 4800U - 70.1%
GPU: AMD Radeon Graphics - 17.2%
SSD: Kbg40znt512g TOSHIBA MEMORY 512GB - 156.1%
RAM: Samsung M471A1G44AB0-CWE 2x8GB - 72.1%
MBD: Lenovo 81YQ

How could a benchmark by independent software carried out on the exact same laptop be any less subjective or a placebo?

18-06-2020 10:01pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

How could a benchmark by independent software carried out on the exact same laptop be any less subjective or a placebo?

Because you can't directly compare benchmark scores on one OS to benchmark scores on another OS. I also have no idea if you had a clean install of Windows 10? Or was that run on the version that came with the laptop?

If you truly believe that everyone went from being able to boot their computer up in ten seconds to instead waiting for a minute and just decided to accept it then that's crazy. No one would have adopted Windows 10 if that was the case.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 10:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Because you can't directly compare benchmark scores on one OS to benchmark scores on another OS.

If you truly believe that everyone went from being able to boot their computer up in ten seconds to instead waiting for a minute and just decided to accept it then that's crazy. No one would have adopted Windows 10 if that was the case.

You know as well as anyone else that windows 10 was either forced on people or people fell into the "Free Upgrade" trap that they ran for years.

Just look at this graph from 2017. Remember, Windows 7 was almost 8 years old at this point and Windows 10 was over 2 years old! Dire statistics.

And the only reason it converged in 2017 is because the official support ended and many businesses legally had to upgrade. There was such a poor uptake that they had to extend the support to Jan 2020!

18-06-2020 10:24pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

You know as well as anyone else that windows 10 was either forced on people or people fell into the "Free Upgrade" trap that they ran for years.

Just look at this graph from 2017. Remember, Windows 7 was almost 8 years old at this point and Windows 10 was over 2 years old! Dire statistics.

It's irrelevant if the update was forced or not (although I do now believe that's actually the reason you dislike Windows 10 more than anything) as that was not the point you were making. Link to some studies (as I have done) that show your following claims:

1) Windows 10 boots slower
2) Windows 10 crashes more often
3) Windows 10 slows down over time quicker

If you can't, then the reason you dislike Windows 7 is purely personal preference, and you are willing to put up with the reduction in performance and the increase in vulnerability to keep that preference.

18-06-2020 10:36pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

How could a benchmark by independent software carried out on the exact same laptop be any less subjective or a placebo?

no idea what is goin on tbh but i have to say my benchmarks- with the 4700u- are pretty different to yours on W10

maybe it would be worth your configuring it a bit for performance?

FFVII · 18-06-2020 10:39pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

It isn't exactly what it means, in fact. I haven't had an update installed in years and it still works perfectly fine. Being careful is more important than any update or antivirus. For as long as W7 is even a fraction as popular as it is now there will be people making new drivers and fixes. The big problem getting it installed on this laptop is that NVMe and USB3 weren't even a thing when W7 was made. There is a fancy tool I used to slipstream hotfixes onto the installation media that had it up and running in an hour.

It really is just a matter of preference. I hear a lot of IT people swear by it. But I feel like people who are highly dependant on a mouse despise it! (Also people who don't like irreversibly losing hours of work hate it too) I find the window arranging and navigating folders to be a nightmare.

Windows 7:
Windows button -> Here's a list of your programs
windows button -> My computer -> Here are your files

Windows 10:
Windows button -> GIANT IRRELEVANT TILES/APPS/NEWS/PROMOTIONS SHIFTING ALL OVER THE PLACE
Windows button -> File Explorer -> Who the hell knows where your files are. in the cloud somewhere probably

Right this moment it has taken over a minute just to login to the desktop on my W10 work laptop. It has taken 14 seconds to fully boot my W7 laptop from cold.

You turned off updates and then had to use a tool to install the updates you couldn't do without...crazy carry on.

If I click windows 10 button my programs are in alphabetical order and I only use a 15 year old Dell Mouse.

You are literally wasting hours running an unsecured system cuz you don't know what you're at. And you can't venture further than the big known sites now either, just incase.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because you can't directly compare benchmark scores on one OS to benchmark scores on another OS. I also have no idea if you had a clean install of Windows 10? Or was that run on the version that came with the laptop?

If you truly believe that everyone went from being able to boot their computer up in ten seconds to instead waiting for a minute and just decided to accept it then that's crazy. No one would have adopted Windows 10 if that was the case.

I was looking at those links for awhile wondering am I missing something or the different OS is the reason for the score.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 11:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's irrelevant if the update was forced or not (although I do now believe that's actually the reason you dislike Windows 10 more than anything) as that was not the point you were making. Link to some studies (as I have done) that show your following claims:

1) Windows 10 boots slower
2) Windows 10 crashes more often
3) Windows 10 slows down over time quicker

If you can't, then the reason you dislike Windows 7 is purely personal preference, and you are willing to put up with the reduction in performance and the increase in vulnerability to keep that preference.

I already said from the beginning that it was purely preference. I'm not going to get into a "who can find the most official benchmarks publication" argument. Besides, that company is affiliated with microsoft and they did exactly what you accused me of doing and compared unlike things with each other. Most of the Windows 7 systems they tested were likely on 5 year old hardware.

Deleted User wrote: »

no idea what is goin on tbh but i have to say my benchmarks- with the 4700u- are pretty different to yours on W10

maybe it would be worth your configuring it a bit for performance?

It was a fresh install for both operating systems. Nothing was adjusted.

FFVII wrote: »

You turned off updates and then had to use a tool to install the updates you couldn't do without...crazy carry on.

I turned off updates on my personal desktop computer. I used a tool to slipstream a hotfix so that W7 could identify hardware that didn't exist when it was created. It works perfectly.

The fact that W10 only surpassed W7 this time last year and the fact that 1 in 5 users still use W7 6 months passed the point support has ended is proof enough for me which OS is better overall.

MidlanderMan · 18-06-2020 11:06pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

The fact that W10 only surpassed W7 this time last year and the fact that 1 in 5 users still use W7 6 months passed the point support has ended is proof enough for me which OS is better overall.

That's a really bad metric to use to judge the better OS.
W10 is more stable and more secure at this point, and has less compatability issues with most programmes.

It's also just a nicer OS as an end user.

the fact that there's a pile of old business work stations that were never updated by lazy IT staff and loads of old OEM's people's grannies barely use still running windows doesn't really prove anything.

18-06-2020 11:23pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

I already said from the beginning that it was purely preference. I'm not going to get into a "who can find the most official benchmarks publication" argument. Besides, that company is affiliated with microsoft and they did exactly what you accused me of doing and compared unlike things with each other. Most of the Windows 7 systems they tested were likely on 5 year old hardware.

Yes it's your preference. But you have this preference because you believe Windows 7 outperforms Windows 10, which isn't true as I've demonstrated with facts and figures.

And these facts and figures are not benchmarks and are not subjective. They are obtained using a timer and a counter. They timed how long it took to boot up and they counted how many crashes there were. It's not an argument I am presenting, it is only the facts. And if you can't demonstrate how these facts are incorrect, then they remain as facts.

But I would highly recommend publishing your data about how bad Windows 10 is compared to Windows 7 and how all the other studies up to now comparing the two were wrong this whole time. You might revolutionise the computing industry.

bfa1509 wrote: »

It was a fresh install for both operating systems. Nothing was adjusted.

Well then you clearly didn't install the drivers or something correctly after the fresh install since someone has stated that they got a significantly different Windows 10 benchmark score than you.

bfa1509 wrote: »

The fact that W10 only surpassed W7 this time last year and the fact that 1 in 5 users still use W7 6 months passed the point support has ended is proof enough for me which OS is better overall.

What absolutely terrible logic, not even going to bother. That's some impressive straw clutching.

But here, let me help you with increasing your performance since it is so important to you.

Windows 7:
windows button -> My computer -> Here are your files

Windows 10:
Windows button -> File Explorer -> Who the hell knows where your files are. in the cloud somewhere probably

I have good news for you! You can get to your files in one click less and in half the time by pinning the explorer to your taskbar like here. And what's even better is that this can be done in both Windows 7 and Windows 10! But are you gonna to adopt this? I doubt it, as you don't really actually care too much about increasing performance, you just don't like change.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 11:24pm

MidlanderMan wrote: »

W10 is more stable and more secure at this point, and has less compatability issues with most programmes.

That is 100% untrue. Do you realise the amount of controversies that microsoft have been embroiled in over the last few years relating to forced updates, instability issues, data loss, privacy issues and generally underhanded practices?

There's a whole wikipedia dedicated to it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_10#:~:text=Microsoft%20was%20criticized%20for%20the,it%20difficult%20for%20users%20to

Find me a page of criticisms for windows 7. (you won't)

MidlanderMan wrote: »

It's also just a nicer OS as an end user.

In your opinion it is. I (along with many of my colleagues) find it frustrating to use. While vastly improved, W10 still reeks of the disastrous Desktop/touchscreen hybrid of windows 8.

MidlanderMan wrote: »

the fact that there's a pile of old business work stations that were never updated by lazy IT staff and loads of old OEM's people's grannies barely use still running windows doesn't really prove anything.

The vast majority of people only upgraded because they were either forced or because they were afraid of support ending. Businesses legally had to and most of them left it til the last year of support.

Hardly convincing.

lickalot · 18-06-2020 11:25pm

BFA why didn't microsoft just stick to Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98 or Windows 95. Imagine that now running on the Ryzen CPU'S. Imagine the benchmarks :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Things change OP, why would Microsoft bother support both operating systems to keep people like you happy. I did like Windows 7 but couldn't go back to it now after using Windows 10.

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 11:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes it's your preference. But you have this preference because you believe Windows 7 outperforms Windows 10, which isn't true as I've demonstrated with facts and figures.

I said from the beginning that it was personal preference and the bonus was that I was getting higher performance than windows 10.

I think your problem is that you don't like having the thing that you have criticised because you like to think you are on the pinnacle of technology

lickalot wrote: »

BFA why didn't microsoft just stick to Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98 or Windows 95. Imagine that now running on the Ryzen CPU'S. Imagine the benchmarks :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Things change OP, why would Microsoft bother support both operating systems to keep people like you happy. I did like Windows 7 but couldn't go back to it now after using Windows 10.

Do you even have to ask that question? It is blindingly obvious why - $$$$$$

Had Microsoft released windows 7 as a paid subscription OS they would never release another operating system ever again!

18-06-2020 11:39pm

bfa1509 wrote: »

I said from the beginning that it was personal preference and the bonus was that I was getting higher performance than windows 10.

And I have demonstrated to you that your belief that Windows 7 has better performance is incorrect. Shall you be switching back to Windows 10? Doubtful. Or do you even believe that what I just said is true? Also doubtful.

And I assume you're ignoring my other comments because you can't think of good responses?

bfa1509 · 18-06-2020 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And I have demonstrated to you that your belief that Windows 7 has better performance is incorrect. Shall you be switching back to Windows 10? Doubtful. Or do you even believe that what I just said is true? Also doubtful.

It was my belief that was backed up by a well known benchmark for my particular case. On average, Windows 10 could have 20% better performance in every aspect than Windows 7 for all I care. Doesn't change the fact that I find it a terrible operating system.

Deleted User wrote: »

And I assume you're ignoring my other comments because you can't think of good responses?

I read every single one of your comments

I even read the whitepaper you linked. I didn't realise you expected every one of your comments to be addressed? I'm sorry!

Why don't you re-post all the comments I didn't sufficiently address and I will give each and every one of them the response they unequivocally deserve?

19-06-2020 12:03am

bfa1509 wrote: »

It was my belief that was backed up by a well known benchmark for my particular case. On average, Windows 10 could have 20% better performance in every aspect than Windows 7 for all I care. Doesn't change the fact that I find it a terrible operating system.

The key thing is that not only was it your belief, it still is your belief, even though I have shown that your belief was wrong. Confirmation bias is strong with you. If what you said was true then you would have no problem stating something like "You know what? Maybe you're right, maybe Windows 10 is the better operating in many ways and it's what people should be using. But I'm gonna stick to Windows 7 anyway because it's my preference." But you won't say something like that because you still don't think it's only just your preference, you also think it's objectively superior in performance, and you will continue to ignore the facts that I have presented because you don't want that to be untrue.

bfa1509 wrote: »

I read every single one of your comments I even read the whitepaper you linked. I didn't realise you expected every one of your comments to be addressed? I'm sorry!

Why don't you re-post all the comments I didn't sufficiently address and I will give each and every one of them the response they unequivocally deserve?

That's fine. You obviously aren't interested in finding out whether your belief was true or not, you just wanted to tell us all about how much of a crazy rebel you are for still using an outdated operating system. Congrats.

19-06-2020 12:20am

lads

let the man run windows 7 ffs

19-06-2020 12:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

lads

let the man run windows 7 ffs

He can do as he pleases with his own laptop but he shouldn't be tempting other users into reverting to Windows 7 by making false statements like "just because it's out of support doesn't mean it can't be fully functional or safe."

19-06-2020 12:31am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He can do as he pleases with his own laptop but he shouldn't be tempting other users into reverting to Windows 7 by making false statements like "just because it's out of support doesn't mean it can't be fully functional or safe."

let them run it too!

lifes awful short for OS wars!

19-06-2020 12:32am

Linux is the way to go anyway!

19-06-2020 12:36am

somebody had to say it.....thats the thread gone now anyway

FFVII · 19-06-2020 12:37am

Deleted User wrote: »

let them run it too!

lifes awful short for OS wars!

I use to nearly have to do that with sh1te like this but now I just say fuk em.

If you can imagine it, you can be damn sure theirs someone out there doing it, don't matter how stupid it may be.

fuk em, moving on.

bfa1509 · 19-06-2020 12:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

He can do as he pleases with his own laptop but he shouldn't be tempting other users into reverting to Windows 7 by making false statements like "just because it's out of support doesn't mean it can't be fully functional or safe."

I wasn't giving people medical advice. If a mod thinks I'm putting people in danger here, let them handle it.

My very first sentence about this:

"For anyone interested, I managed to get Windows 7 installed on this laptop"

You led us down the rabbit hole of an OS war.

I didn't even post the name of the tool. Don't you think someone who can slipstream hotfixes to an image file is honestly going to be in danger using a legacy OS? Bigger things to worry about in this world I think...

19-06-2020 12:52am

bfa1509 wrote: »

I didn't even post the name of the tool. Don't you think someone who can slipstream hotfixes to an image file is honestly going to be in danger using a legacy OS?

Ehm, yes? Just because you consider yourself tech savvy doesn't mean you can do anything about a hidden malicious attack nor about a security loop hole that exists because of your outdated OS.

bfa1509 · 19-06-2020 12:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Ehm, yes? Just because you consider yourself tech savvy doesn't mean you can do anything about a hidden malicious attack nor about a security loop hole that exists because of your outdated OS.

Whatever. I already addressed this in my 3rd comment:

"I'd rather have windows 7 rife with viruses than to use window 10"

Maybe you need to stop ignoring my comments.

19-06-2020 6:58am

the usual suspects boards warriors in action again

unleash

dodzy · 19-06-2020 8:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

somebody had to say it.....thats the thread gone now anyway

Surprised it lasted this long in fairness without the OS war rearing it’s head :rolleyes:. Anyway, threw office 2019 onto this little baby last night. Performing admirably :-)

Lenovo IdeaPad 5 15ARE05 15.6'' Ryzen AMD 16Gb DDR4 3200Mhz 256Gb SSD - â‚¬490

Comments