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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

  • 13-06-2020 5:43pm
    #1
    horse7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭ horse7


    Phoenix park is the biggest public park in Europe, so why is there no parking allowed since Corona?


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Comments

  • #2
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    horse7 wrote: »
    Phoenix park is the biggest public park in Europe, so why is there no parking allowed since Corona?

    Pressure from social media. From those who don't need a car to get to the park, or who don't use it usually anyway.

    There's no doubt it was much nicer without cars. But it's noticeably quieter IMO. We would use it a lot normally. Very little since the lockdown.

    I've actually avoided it since they opened the main road but keep the side gates closed. It's created long tail backs.


  • #3
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    I've already been on to the Taoiseach's and Jack Chamber's offices about the Park during the week and they hinted they are getting deluged about it.

    I drove through on Wednesday evening around 8pm from Parkgate, and the Park was practically deserted apart of course from about 3 million traffic cones. The worst thing about it though was, the usual passive security of there being lots of people around, was just gone, the place was desolate! I wouldn't have gone for a run on my own myself let alone let my wife venture in as she often does.

    Yesterday's traffic on the main Avenue was simply a result of people wanting to go and visit the Park and finding nowhere to park or any alternative exit when they got there. The outcome was a mile each way of disappointed and confused people.

    Phoenix Park is a national park, not just one for those within walking and cycling distance. Also, with public transport reduced to 15-20% capacity, how are people expected to use that alternative, especially with a family group, for the foreseeable future?

    I get the impression the public reps will be coming down hard on OPW to reverse this failed experiment asap. I for one will simply start parking on the Avenue again for my weekend leisure visits and force the issue. As far as I can ascertain, OPW haven't enacted any new bye-laws for these measures so they'd be stuffed if people reverted to parking, en masse, as they always did.


  • #4
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    What they need is proper car parks off the roads.

    Lots of dead unused space in the park. Put a online counter on it like normal car parks. This is simple basic stuff. They just won't get the finger out and do it.


  • #5
    horse7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,079 ✭✭✭ horse7


    There,s no chance of that happening, it,s like OPW want to keep out the public. Well done to Larbe for the previous post.


  • #6
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭ Pinch Flat


    Must as I hate the park being swamped with cars we have to accept that this is how most people access if and it a main route to the city from castleknock. I'd argue with improved cycling infrastructure people who drive to work from this area would consider converting it into a handy 30 Minute cycle in the morning. But that's for another day.

    Few locations for dedicated parking that's regulated. Maybe charged as well and this used to fund a shuttle bus - there was one there a few years ago that operated for a nominal charge €1 Or something like that. It could serve the perimeter with stops at key locations.


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  • #7
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    The Park already had dedicated, good quality, cycle paths. These were unnecessarily redesignated as footpaths to improve social distancing. In an open-air 70 million square metre park....

    Shuttle buses and all that are fine and noble and are already used for big events like Bloom, but with transport capacity forcibly at 15-20% thats a non-starter for the foreseeable.


  • #8
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    What they need is proper car parks off the roads.

    Lots of dead unused space in the park. Put a online counter on it like normal car parks. This is simple basic stuff. They just won't get the finger out and do it.

    That's what makes it a park.


  • #9
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    That's what makes it a park.

    I'm not sure you understood "dead unused space"


  • #10
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm not sure you understood "dead unused space"

    I don't know what you mean by 'dead'. Do you mean the wilderness that is home to a huge range of flora and fauna, including the herd of deer? The beautiful spaces that are a delight to wander through? Or do you think we should go back to the DCC's plan all those years ago that included putting an open air swimming pool on the 15 acres?


  • #11
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    'Proper car parks' will use up the space that so many people go there to enjoy.


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  • #12
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ daymobrew


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    As far as I can ascertain, OPW haven't enacted any new bye-laws for these measures so they'd be stuffed if people reverted to parking, en masse, as they always did.
    The Phoenix Park Act of 1925 does allow the park rangers to arrest you.

    The fine for assaulting a park ranger is 20 pounds.


  • #13
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    I don't know what you mean by 'dead'. Do you mean the wilderness that is home to a huge range of flora and fauna, including the herd of deer? The beautiful spaces that are a delight to wander through? Or do you think we should go back to the DCC's plan all those years ago that included putting an open air swimming pool on the 15 acres?

    So yes you don't understand the term unused space.

    There's land at the back of Farmleigh they have used in the past as car parking just abandoned and derelict. There lots of areas on the fringe of the park that are pretty much dead ground, I've never seen deer or people anywhere near these areas in a lifetime of using the park. No one uses them because they are overgrown and/or inaccessible.

    It would far better to have cars use those spaces than parked on the grass in the spaces that are used by people and animals.


  • #14
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    'Proper car parks' will use up the space that so many people go there to enjoy.

    People can't get there to enjoy it if there is no parking.

    A lot less people using it now then usual. I suspect a lot of people who think it's busy now only think that because they don't use it that much normally, so it looks busy to them. But it isn't really.

    A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.


  • #15
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    So yes you don't understand the term unused space.

    There's land at the back of Farmleigh they have used in the past as car parking just abandoned and derelict. There lots of areas on the fringe of the park that are pretty much dead ground, I've never seen deer or people anywhere near these areas in a lifetime of using the park. No one uses them because they are overgrown and/or inaccessible.

    It would far better to have cars use those spaces than parked on the grass in the spaces that are used by people and animals.

    The back of Farmleigh is outside of the Phoenix Park. I have been in the Park pretty much every day of my life and I am at a loss to think where this dead ground is. Are you confusing 'overgrown' and 'wilderness'? The Phoenix Park has always been divided into activity areas and wilderness areas.


  • #16
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    People can't get there to enjoy it if there is no parking.

    A lot less people using it now then usual. I suspect a lot of people who think it's busy now only think that because they don't use it that much normally, so it looks busy to them. But it isn't really.

    A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.

    The Phoenix Park has never been busier, outside of events. Building car parks in a park defeats the purpose of the park. There is a train station and a Luas stop right outside the main gate and numerous bus routes right around the perimeter.


  • #17
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,377 ✭✭✭✭ Stark


    beauf wrote: »
    A classic example of that was people saying the cycle paths were a joy to use. When the park is truely busy you can't use them. Too many people on them.

    Do you even know what you're talking about? They surrendered the old cycle paths that had already been appropriated by walkers and joggers and made the hard shoulder which no-one wants to walk in into cycle paths. So people can now cycle when the park is busy without having to worry about aggro from angry gammon for cycling on the road when "there's perfectly good cycle path available".


  • #18
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    The back of Farmleigh is outside of the Phoenix Park. I have been in the Park pretty much every day of my life and I am at a loss to think where this dead ground is. Are you confusing 'overgrown' and 'wilderness'? The Phoenix Park has always been divided into activity areas and wilderness areas.

    Both are opw. When Farmleigh is busy or has an event on they drag all that traffic and queues through the park to get to it. When it already has at least two other direct entrances that don't go through the park. So the OPW choose to create traffic in the park on those occasions.


  • #19
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    The Phoenix Park has never been busier, outside of events. Building car parks in a park defeats the purpose of the park. There is a train station and a Luas stop right outside the main gate and numerous bus routes right around the perimeter.

    What you are saying is that the park is busier even though less people can now get to it.

    Its quiet anytime I've been in it. Apart from the odd peak day during the lock down.

    I was going to say I've never seen it quieter but I have. It was quieter when they closed the main road for almost a year when they rebuilt it.


  • #20
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    Do you even know what you're talking about? They surrendered the old cycle paths that had already been appropriated by walkers and joggers and made the hard shoulder which no-one wants to walk in into cycle paths. So people can now cycle when the park is busy without having to worry about aggro from angry gammon for cycling on the road when "there's perfectly good cycle path available".

    It's only a problem on peak days. That said I think it's a great idea. The cycle lanes have never made sense when it got busy. Or even mid winter youd meet ninja walkers and dog walkers on it, lead stretched across your path.

    Always thought there should be cycle super highway through the park and now there is.


  • #21
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    The sheer unsustainabilty of these traffic jams, seen today and yesterday, will force a reversal of these over zealous measures.

    As I said, the Taoiseach's and Jack Chamber's offices both mentioned they had many complaints from users and neighbours of the Park and bear in mind I spoke to them on Friday, even before the mess of this weekend!

    Something else to consider, the Zoo has just endured a 3 month+ enforced closure. Their financial viability, this year and beyond, depends on the level of vehicle access that they normally enjoy. I would strongly suspect that whatever OPW official is responsible for Phoenix Park can expect a very irate phonecall from the CEO of the Zoo first thing tomorrow.


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  • #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    Looks like its working perfectly... :)

    https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20


  • #23
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    Usual myopic rubbish from Cuffe. And I'm not just saying that because I oppose his party policy. I know the guy through my work, he's a tin roofer.

    He knows full well, that of the 10 million visitors to the park annually, a small percentage live within walking or cycling distance. How would he suggest families or anyone else access the Park with public transport forcibly reduced to 20% of capacity for the foreseeable future?


  • #24
    raheny red
    Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ raheny red


    beauf wrote: »
    Looks like its working perfectly... :)

    https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1271855869630787590?s=20

    I'm loving the new cycle lanes.


  • #25
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    raheny red wrote: »
    I'm loving the new cycle lanes.

    They'll not be there long.


  • #26
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    Ignore Cuff. The video is interesting because it's shows how in a time of greatly reduced traffic they've created the mother lode of traffic jams.

    Also the activity in the background.


  • #27
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    They'll not be there long.

    I hope you're wrong but I can't see that there is the will and imagination to solve the myriad of issues around this.


  • #28
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    Both are opw. When Farmleigh is busy or has an event on they drag all that traffic and queues through the park to get to it. When it already has at least two other direct entrances that don't go through the park. So the OPW choose to create traffic in the park on those occasions.

    But Farmleigh isn't part of the Phoenix Park. And there is no ground behind Farmleigh that is part of the Park. Plus you still haven't said exactly where all this 'dead space' in the Park is actually located. The Zoo's main problem with parking for its customers is the park and ride cars left all day along Chesterfield road. That's a big issue that needs to be addressed.


  • #29
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,676 ✭✭✭✭ beauf


    polesheep wrote: »
    But Farmleigh isn't part of the Phoenix Park. And there is no ground behind Farmleigh that is part of the Park. Plus you still haven't said exactly where all this 'dead space' in the Park is actually located. The Zoo's main problem with parking for its customers is the park and ride cars left all day along Chesterfield road. That's a big issue that needs to be addressed.

    There's more parking on the avenue at the weekend's than there is during the weekdays.

    Parking for the zoo is worse at the weekends, car park overflowing and cars on every road and even the grass around the park.

    So whatever about the park and ride there isn't enough parking for people even at the weekends.

    Simple solution to the park and ride. Clamp anyone parked there for than three hours on a weekday during office hours.

    If Farmleigh has nothing to do with the park or the opw or the state, they should stop funnelling all the traffic going to it through the park. Lol.


  • #30
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭ polesheep


    beauf wrote: »
    There's more parking on the avenue at the weekend's than there is during the weekdays.

    Parking for the zoo is worse at the weekends, car park overflowing and cars on every road and even the grass around the park.

    So whatever about the park and ride there isn't enough parking for people even at the weekends.

    Simple solution to the park and ride. Clamp anyone parked there for than three hours on a weekday during office hours.

    If Farmleigh has nothing to do with the park or the opw or the state, they should stop funnelling all the traffic going to it through the park. Lol.

    There are cars parked on the grass throughout the Park at the weekend. The only solution is to reduce the number of cars in the Park. I'm still waiting to hear where these 'dead spaces' are. And I agree with you, Farmleigh should be accessed from Tower road.


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  • #31
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭ Former Former


    Ciaran Cuffe; "take public transport"

    Public transport companies: "avoid public transport unless absolutely necessary"

    This is my issue with the Greens. They may have good intentions and some good ideas, but they're utterly disconnected from reality.

    On the park traffic in general; the OPW have been waiting years to do this. Covid gave them the excuse they needed. That massive traffic jam is exactly what they were hoping for.


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