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Madeleine McCann

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  • #6302
    punchdrunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Are we really supposed to believe that two doctors, one of whom was a qualified anaesthetist, accidentally overdosed their kids?

    Whether they used over the counter stuff or somehow managed to smuggle prescription stuff into the country without it being picked up at airport security, the odds of a doctor and an anaesthetist accidentally overdosing three small kids is less than zero.
    If it was an average joe I might see some merit in the argument but they were both doctors!

    Agreed!


  • #6303
    punchdrunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I’ve followed this case for years now but the latest developments don’t do much for me.

    Of course if you invest literally millions and keep investigating there will always be something of interest.

    They’ve admitted they have no body and no hard evidence yet they believe he killed her and need information...

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/madeleine-mccann-german-prosecutor-has-evidence-british-girl-is-dead-12003094

    It’s inferred here that they definitely know more than they have released- just not quite enough to guarantee a conviction, this is one of the highest profile cases in history- everyone investigating will be dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s here...


  • #6304
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    bladespin wrote: »
    It's not fair, so we can't, there's no way of proving one way or the other. Though definitely something to remember.

    How else can you explain any of the points mentioned without sedatives?
    Silent abductions, sleeping twins, Kate knowing instantly that maddie could not have left on her own, the forced tiredness narrative, etc.


  • #6305
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    punchdrunk wrote: »
    Sedation? where are the pill bottles? Where are the tourniquets, alcohol wipes, syringes?

    It’s a baseless accusation- no evidence!

    Probably disposed of with the body. No point making two trips to fantasy land.


  • #6306
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    punchdrunk wrote: »
    Sedation? where are the pill bottles? Where are the tourniquets, alcohol wipes, syringes?

    It’s a baseless accusation- no evidence!

    Could be sleeping pills. The McCann's stuff wasn't searched for a long time after the events.


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  • #6307
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Are we really supposed to believe that two doctors, one of whom was a qualified anaesthetist, accidentally overdosed their kids?

    Whether they used over the counter stuff or somehow managed to smuggle prescription stuff into the country without it being picked up at airport security, the odds of a doctor and an anaesthetist accidentally overdosing three small kids is less than zero.
    If it was an average joe I might see some merit in the argument but they were both doctors!

    Overdoes is one theory that doesn't involve abduction. This is also possible. Both of them are experienced doctors but they didn't work in children's medicine as far as I know. Maddie woke up the night before, perhaps they decided she was getting too big / immune and decided to up her dose, went a bit too liberal, maybe they measured wrong, who knows, lots of possibilities. Mistakes happen in every work place and in every home.


  • #6308
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Effects wrote: »
    Probably disposed of with the body. No point making two trips to fantasy land.

    Where and when did they dispose of the body seeing as Madeleine was signed out of kids club (verified by independent witnesses) at 6pm and Kate & Gerry sat down for dinner a mere 2.5 hours later?

    Bearing in mind there was no mobile internet or google maps, and they had no access to a car. They had only been in PdeL for a few days so wouldn’t have had a huge amount of local knowledge and at that time of evening it would have still been bright outside with plenty of dinner going tourists around, so not exactly ideal conditions for disposing of a child’s corpse.

    I’d love to hear how and when they hid the body so well that it still hasn’t been discovered over 13 years later. I’m all ears.


  • #6309
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    How else can you explain any of the points mentioned without sedatives?
    Silent abductions, sleeping twins, Kate knowing instantly that maddie could not have left on her own, the forced tiredness narrative, etc.

    Silent abductions? Are kidnappers in the habit of making an unholy racket to draw attention to themselves? How much noise can a child make with her mouth covered and/or gagged.

    Sleeping twins? It was 10pm, they were playing all day in hot weather. They might have been pretty tired, call me crazy! No evidence of sedatives from their hair samples, either.

    No idea what the 'forced tiredness' narrative is you speak of.

    These things are only as suspicious as you want to make them.


  • #6310
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Effects wrote: »
    Probably disposed of with the body. No point making two trips to fantasy land.

    The body's whereabouts is what gets the McCanns off the hook in my mind, the only way to get rid would be to get local help, which seems unlikely but then again as they've demonstrated they are quite skilled at securing favors from very powerful people, everything from millions of pounds, use of private jets and even private detectives who are barred from certain lines of enquiry. So it remains a possibility


  • #6311
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The body's whereabouts is what gets the McCanns off the hook in my mind, the only way to get rid would be to get local help, which seems unlikely but then again as they've demonstrated they are quite skilled at securing favors from very powerful people, everything from millions of pounds, use of private jets and even private detectives who are barred from certain lines of enquiry. So it remains a possibility

    Lol, you think these 'very powerful' friends the McCanns supposedly have in the British government happened to be in Praia de Luz that night, got a call about disposing of a dead child's body and said, "sure thing, pal, be right there!"

    I can't even...


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  • #6312
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Where and when did they dispose of the body seeing as Madeleine was signed out of kids club (verified by independent witnesses) at 6pm and Kate & Gerry sat down for dinner a mere 2.5 hours later?

    Bearing in mind there was no mobile internet or google maps, and they had no access to a car. They had only been in PdeL for a few days so wouldn’t have had a huge amount of local knowledge and at that time of evening it would have still been bright outside with plenty of dinner going tourists around, so not exactly ideal conditions for disposing of a child’s corpse.

    I’d love to hear how and when they hid the body so well that it still hasn’t been discovered over 13 years later. I’m all ears.

    Well it's a far fetched scenario but most scenarios in this case are far fetched:

    1) We don't know they didnt have access to a car. We know they didn't hire one from the holiday rental companies and that no obvious charge turned up on their cards. They didn't hire a private jet through normal channels either but had access to one, they also had lots of friends there, wouldn't rule any of them out.

    2)Local help is a possibility. Even a kind hearted friend, or local priest who wouldn't want the twins to be brought up with parents in prison.


  • #6313
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    I have to say the parents involvement theory is getting a lot more silly.....

    None of it is impossible but it’s far, far more likely the child was abducted and the parents knew nothing about it.


  • #6314
    punchdrunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    dark crystal wrote: »
    Silent abductions? Are kidnappers in the habit of making an unholy racket to draw attention to themselves? How much noise can a child make with her mouth covered and/or gagged.

    Sleeping twins? It was 10pm, they were playing all day in hot weather. They might have been pretty tired, call me crazy! No evidence of sedatives from their hair samples, either.

    No idea what the 'forced tiredness' narrative is you speak of.

    These things are only as suspicious as you want to make them.

    I can move my sleeping two year old from the car to the cot in broad daylight without making any racket- even easier at night and in darkness, to me this whole sedation narrative is a red herring.


  • #6315
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    dark crystal wrote: »
    Silent abductions? Are kidnappers in the habit of making an unholy racket to draw attention to themselves? How much noise can a child make with her mouth covered and/or gagged.

    There's no way it could be done without a hullabaloo, the upstairs neighbours can hear crying the night before remember.
    dark crystal wrote: »
    Sleeping twins? It was 10pm, they were playing all day in hot weather. They might have been pretty tired, call me crazy! No evidence of sedatives from their hair samples, either.

    Don't buy it
    dark crystal wrote: »
    No idea what the 'forced tiredness' narrative is you speak of.

    Have a look at some of the interviews and count how many times she says tired.

    How else can you explain Kate knowing that Maddie didn't get out on her own steam?


  • #6316
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Well it's a far fetched scenario but most scenarios in this case are far fetched:

    1) We don't know they didnt have access to a car. We know they didn't hire one from the holiday rental companies and that no obvious charge turned up on their cards. They didn't hire a private jet through normal channels either but had access to one, they also had lots of friends there, wouldn't rule any of them out.

    2)Local help is a possibility. Even a kind hearted friend, or local priest who wouldn't want the twins to be brought up with parents in prison.

    A kind hearted friend or local priest who would cover up the murder of a toddler for over 13 years and not say a word?
    I adore my friends and would do anything for my family but you can be damn sure I would not help them dispose of a child’s corpse and stage a kidnapping because they murdered their child.
    Why would someone local even help them? What would they have to gain, besides being an accessory to a murder?

    It’s actually insane that this is even being offered up as a reasonable explanation. Friends don’t cover for friends who murder their kids, no matter how ‘kind hearted’ they are.


  • #6317
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    dark crystal wrote: »
    Lol, you think these 'very powerful' friends the McCanns supposedly have in the British government happened to be in Praia de Luz that night, got a call about disposing of a dead child's body and said, "sure thing, pal, be right there!"

    I can't even...

    Well I don't know about their friends in the British Government but they say now it only costs about €20k to get someone killed. I'm sure the price for hiding a body. Their friend's didnt have to be there that night, they only needed to have connections to local criminals.

    Alternatively a kind hearted friend done it for free to save the twins from being parentless.

    Like I said these are far fetched scenarios, but possible.


  • #6318
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    Rock77 wrote: »
    I have to say the parents involvement theory is getting a lot more silly.....

    None of it is impossible but it’s far, far more likely the child was abducted and the parents knew nothing about it.

    A professional abduction plus medicated kids removes a lot of the variables. Still Maddie getting hit by local drunk driver remains simplest option.


  • #6319
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    A kind hearted friend or local priest who would cover up the murder of a toddler for over 13 years and not say a word?
    I adore my friends and would do anything for my family but you can be damn sure I would not help them dispose of a child’s corpse and stage a kidnapping because they murdered their child.
    Why would someone local even help them? What would they have to gain, besides being an accessory to a murder?

    It’s actually insane that this is even being offered up as a reasonable explanation. Friends don’t cover for friends who murder their kids, no matter how ‘kind hearted’ they are.

    Like all the McCann supporters say: "you don't know how you'd react in that situation". The friends at the dinner table already lied to cover each others arses over the timeline of checks, presumably they didn't want to get done for cruelty, I could see how one lie could lead to another and get very out of hand in such a high stress situation.


  • #6320
    dubstarr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭dubstarr


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Like all the McCann supporters say: "you don't know how you'd react in that situation". The friends at the dinner table already lied to cover each others arses over the timeline of checks, presumably they didn't want to get done for cruelty, I could see how one lie could lead to another and get very out of hand in such a high stress situation.

    Its common sense though,theres always a weak link.No way they could all keep their mouth shut.

    Somebody gets drunk and lets something slip.Or they cant take the guilt anymore and the go to the police.That would be more likely


  • #6321
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Like all the McCann supporters say: "you don't know how you'd react in that situation". The friends at the dinner table already lied to cover each others arses over the timeline of checks, presumably they didn't want to get done for cruelty, I could see how one lie could lead to another and get very out of hand in such a high stress situation.

    Kind hearted nice people don’t cover & lie for people who murder toddlers. It just doesn’t happen.
    If they were so nice and kind hearted they wouldn’t be capable of covering for someone who committed such a heinous crime.

    The friends at the dinner table also got annihilated and abused in the media and in the court of public opinion for leaving their children alone so they had nothing left to lose, why would they continue to protect the two people that caused them so much trouble and caused their lives to be turned upside down?
    What would their motivation be? It just doesn’t make any sense.


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  • #6322
    TheW1zard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Kind hearted nice people don’t cover & lie for people who murder toddlers. It just doesn’t happen.
    If they were so nice and kind hearted they wouldn’t be capable of covering for someone who committed such a heinous crime.

    The friends at the dinner table also got annihilated and abused in the media and in the court of public opinion for leaving their children alone so they had nothing left to lose, why would they continue to protect the two people that caused them so much trouble and caused their lives to be turned upside down?
    What would their motivation be? It just doesn’t make any sense.

    I don't think they had anything to do with it. Sure Jane Tanner said She saw Gerry on the road, and Gerry denied it, on camera, and made her cry!


  • #6323
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    I dont think anyone knows what they would do in this situation. I think it was perfectly understandable that Kate ran back from the apartment to the restaurant to raise the alarm. At that stage she would have though Maddie was just missing rather than abducted.

    They made a huge mistake leaving the kids alone like that and now they have to live with it forever and the devastating impact of it. I highly doubt that the two of them are in anyway involved with the abduction though apart from being negligent. It would serve no purpose to the public or the McCanns for them to be punished for that. They'll live a nightmare everyday for the rest of their lives but in no way are at fault for some scumbag being an evil bastard.

    I would believe that they were under surveilence by a peado group or predator for days leading up to the abduction. Makes you think really.


  • #6324
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,078 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    TheW1zard wrote: »
    I don't think they had anything to do with it. Sure Jane Tanner said She saw Gerry on the road, and Gerry denied it, on camera, and made her cry!

    She saw Gerry talking to a tennis partner, Jez Wilkins in the road near the apartment. Jez Wilkin's police statement corroborates what Jane said she saw, I'm dubious Gerry denied this happened. Can you provide a link?


  • #6325
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,078 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    smelly sock wrote: »

    I would believe that they were under surveilence by a peado group or predator for days leading up to the abduction. Makes you think really.

    I have always suspected that one or more people working for the resort company know more than they have said and perhaps did more than has been said. Shipping the nannies off to Greece the following day must have been a near miracle as travel arrangements go.


  • #6326
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cnocbui wrote: »
    I have always suspected that one or more people working for the resort company know more than they have said and perhaps did more than has been said. Shipping the nannies off to Greece the following day must have been a near miracle as travel arrangements go.

    It's possible and more likely over the McCanns being involved. Although like any cover ups the more people that know the facts the harder it is to keep it secret. I'd say again that someone, an individual or someone working as part of a group had that placed watched and knew the McCanns movements about checking on kids during etc. No way was it a chance abduction.

    It's also a million to one but perhaps Maddie simply wandered off and her little body still lies undiscovered somwhere.


  • #6327
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    dubstarr wrote: »
    Its common sense though,theres always a weak link.No way they could all keep their mouth shut.

    Somebody gets drunk and lets something slip.Or they cant take the guilt anymore and the go to the police.That would be more likely

    Indeed that still may happen. The whole dinner party wouldn't have to be involved to make it work though.


  • #6328
    punchdrunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    It’s already being reported that the hotel worker who tipped off the suspect has been identified according to Portuguese news media, loads of news coming out in the last few days and it’s all pointing one way (and that’s not at the McCanns)

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399409/amp/Police-identify-crooked-hotel-worker-tipped-Madeleine-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html


  • #6329
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Kind hearted nice people don’t cover & lie for people who murder toddlers. It just doesn’t happen.
    If they were so nice and kind hearted they wouldn’t be capable of covering for someone who committed such a heinous crime.

    Well in that scenario it wouldn't be as simple as that. The McCann's would just give them:

    "It was an accident, I don't want to go to prison, the twins will be put into care, you wouldn't do that to them, would you? You're as guilty as I am, your kids are left alone too" etc.
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    The friends at the dinner table also got annihilated and abused in the media and in the court of public opinion for leaving their children alone so they had nothing left to lose, why would they continue to protect the two people that caused them so much trouble and caused their lives to be turned upside down?
    What would their motivation be? It just doesn’t make any sense.

    What would they have to loose? Eh their freedom, having obstructed justice already.


  • #6330
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,031 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    punchdrunk wrote: »
    It’s already being reported that the hotel worker who tipped off the suspect has been identified according to Portuguese news media, loads of news coming out in the last few days and it’s all pointing one way (and that’s not at the McCanns)

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399409/amp/Police-identify-crooked-hotel-worker-tipped-Madeleine-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html

    I wouldn't get too excited, June 2021 there'll be another announced lead or perhaps a fresh appeal to coincide with Maddie's 18th Brithday. People forget details and faces.


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  • #6331
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    punchdrunk wrote: »
    It’s already being reported that the hotel worker who tipped off the suspect has been identified according to Portuguese news media, loads of news coming out in the last few days and it’s all pointing one way (and that’s not at the McCanns)

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399409/amp/Police-identify-crooked-hotel-worker-tipped-Madeleine-prime-suspect-Christian-Brueckner.html

    Steer clear of the Daily Mail would be my thoughts. I do believe though that it wasnt the McCanns or their friends.


This discussion has been closed.
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