Madeleine McCann

dark crystal

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That wasnt checked until months later
The fact the police checked shows they thought it warranted checking
There are lots of criminals out there not convicted of crimes they 100 percent did due to legal screw ups and not having enough evidence

Oh dear - it was the McCanns themselves who arranged the toxicology test, not the police.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mccanns-we-can-prove-that-we-didnt-sedate-our-children-6672667.html

bladespin

Something Else

cgcsb wrote: »

How else can you explain any of the points mentioned without sedatives?
Silent abductions, sleeping twins, Kate knowing instantly that maddie could not have left on her own, the forced tiredness narrative, etc.

Sorry, was away yesterday and catching up, I think it's a definite possibility but we can't say it happened for sure as there's no evidence to support it.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

they probably would if they were administering drugs so they could go out on the raz.

I can't find any mention of the police finding any sedatives among the Mccann's personal possessions in the apartment. The drugs slur was just one of the many cooked up by Amaral. He told the press a syringe and needle had been found in the apartment, which was a lie.

You really have to be a piece of work to promulgate obvious slander after the lies it was based on have been exposed. I have always wondered why people do this.

Why are you doing it? Help me understand what makes someone tick in that way.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

dark crystal wrote: »

Oh dear - it was the McCanns themselves who arranged the toxicology test, not the police.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mccanns-we-can-prove-that-we-didnt-sedate-our-children-6672667.html

The police formulated the lie, so knowing the source of the idea, they had no need to ask for or arrange such tests.

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't find any mention of the police finding any sedatives among the Mccann's personal possessions in the apartment. The drugs slur was just one of the many cooked up by Amaral. He told the press a syringe and needle had been found in the apartment, which was a lie.

You really have to be a piece of work to promulgate obvious slander after the lies it was based on have been exposed. I have always wondered why people do this.

Why are you doing it? Help me understand what makes someone tick in that way.

They admitted to having calpol in their possession, a normal, run of the mill item to bring on holidays when your have small kids.
Not something I personally would find remotely suspicious.
Some people heard this and ran with it, adding arms and legs onto it. You’d swear Kate put the kids under general anaesthetic the way some people talk about it.

bladespin

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

They admitted to having calpol in their possession, a normal, run of the mill item to bring on holidays when your have small kids.
Not something I personally would find remotely suspicious.
Some people heard this and ran with it, adding arms and legs onto it. You’d swear Kate put the kids under general anaesthetic the way some people talk about it.

What was added to the Calpol????

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

bladespin wrote: »

What was added to the Calpol????

Seeing as you’re the one claiming something was added to the calpol, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

There is zero evidence whatsoever that they drugged their children.

cgcsb

Something Else

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't find any mention of the police finding any sedatives among the Mccann's personal possessions in the apartment. The drugs slur was just one of the many cooked up by Amaral. He told the press a syringe and needle had been found in the apartment, which was a lie.

You really have to be a piece of work to promulgate obvious slander after the lies it was based on have been exposed. I have always wondered why people do this.

Why are you doing it? Help me understand what makes someone tick in that way.

Calm down. The police didn't find anything, but considering the fact they only searched the McCann's things MONTHS after the disappearance, that doesn't really conclude anything. The police were very poor quality, that can't be contested by anyone. Their first port of call should have been to close roads and eliminate the parents as suspects immediately by searching their things and interviewing them and their friends separately. The language barrier gets highlighted a lot buy I don't see how a police in a region as touristy as the Algarve wouldn't have at least 2 or 3 translators on hand to cover English, German and Spanish as a minimum.

If they were administering sedatives they had plenty of time to dispose of evidence. Also you don't need a syringe to knock someone out. There are plenty of oral alternatives. Kate herself afterwards speculated that the abductor may have sedated the twins and Maddie when it was put to her the twins were out for the count.

As for the rest of your post, it's a thread about speculation on an open case. If you can't handle it, don't read it.

bladespin

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Seeing as you’re the one claiming something was added to the calpol, the onus is on you to provide the proof.

There is zero evidence whatsoever that they drugged their children.

I'm not claiming anything of the sort, I've already stated my opinion and it wasn't that, just playing Devil's advocate re the question.

Something Else

To be honest, nobody knows for certain what happened to the poor girl.

For years I thought that the parents were probably involved. I won't go listing all the reasons why again as I probably already did somewhere in this thread. There are plenty of things that would raise suspicion. Obviously thats why they were official suspects.

I always thought an abduction would be very difficult to pull off, assuming the timeline given by the tapas 9 can be believed. There was plenty of people around that evening sitting out on their balconies. The kids were getting checked on at least every 30 minutes. While not impossible, for somebody to gain access to the apartment, take Madeline, not leave a single finger print or shoe print and then get out and escape never to be seen again... they either got very lucky or were well prepared. A guy living in a van wouldn't exactly strike me as a mastermind abductor. Of course, perhaps the checks were less frequent or even half hearted. Particularly Matthew Oldfield, who couldn't confirm if he'd even seen Maddie or not.

Based on the latest news though, I'd have to assume that the police must have very strong information to be going after this German suspect. They seem fairly confident that Maddie is dead and this guy was involved, which is very sad news.

Even if they get a conviction, I doubt we'll ever fully understand what exactly happened and when that night.

cgcsb

Something Else

The dogs identifying blood and decomposition in the car, apartment, clothing and most curiously the teddy bear, that Kate somehow had, also has my eyebrow raised, and more importantly the McCann's reaction to the dogs being brought into the investigation has my second eye brow raised. Obviously the dog can't testify so it's not evidence but if I were the cops I wouldn't take my eyes off them for a minute

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

The dogs identifying blood and decomposition in the car, apartment, clothing and most curiously the teddy bear, that Kate somehow had, also has my eyebrow raised, and more importantly the McCann's reaction to the dogs being brought into the investigation has my second eye brow raised. Obviously the dog can't testify so it's not evidence but if I were the cops I wouldn't take my eyes off them for a minute

Have you even seen the video? The handler clearly encourages the dogs to react to the McCann vehicle. The dogs keep running away and he keeps calling them back. They were retired not long after.

They hired the car 3 weeks after she went missing, any thoughts on how they kept the body hidden for 3 weeks while the worlds media and the police were watching and following their every move?

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, nobody knows for certain what happened to the poor girl.

For years I thought that the parents were probably involved. I won't go listing all the reasons why again as I probably already did somewhere in this thread. There are plenty of things that would raise suspicion. Obviously thats why they were official suspects.

I always thought an abduction would be very difficult to pull off, assuming the timeline given by the tapas 9 can be believed. There was plenty of people around that evening sitting out on their balconies. The kids were getting checked on at least every 30 minutes. While not impossible, for somebody to gain access to the apartment, take Madeline, not leave a single finger print or shoe print and then get out and escape never to be seen again... they either got very lucky or were well prepared. A guy living in a van wouldn't exactly strike me as a mastermind abductor. Of course, perhaps the checks were less frequent or even half hearted. Particularly Matthew Oldfield, who couldn't confirm if he'd even seen Maddie or not.

Based on the latest news though, I'd have to assume that the police must have very strong information to be going after this German suspect. They seem fairly confident that Maddie is dead and this guy was involved, which is very sad news.

Even if they get a conviction, I doubt we'll ever fully understand what exactly happened and when that night.

I always wondered about the lack of evidence/fingerprints too, but the police never secured the crime scene. There was up to 30 people in and out of the apartment in the hours after she went missing.
It’s very likely that if there was any evidence there, it was destroyed by contamination because the scene wasn’t sealed off at all.

cgcsb

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

Have you even seen the video? The handler clearly encourages the dogs to react to the McCann vehicle. The dogs keep running away and he keeps calling them back. They were retired not long after.

They hired the car 3 weeks after she went missing, any thoughts on how they kept the body hidden for 3 weeks while the worlds media and the police were watching and following their every move?

The body needn't have been in car to get a reaction from the dogs. The clothes/teddy bear being in the car boot would be sufficient if they were in contact with a corpse for long enough.

The dog handler didn't know which car was which and encouraged the dog back to many areas if he thought the dog didn't spend long enough at each area, same in the apartment.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

The dogs identifying blood and decomposition in the car, apartment, clothing and most curiously the teddy bear, that Kate somehow had, also has my eyebrow raised, and more importantly the McCann's reaction to the dogs being brought into the investigation has my second eye brow raised. Obviously the dog can't testify so it's not evidence but if I were the cops I wouldn't take my eyes off them for a minute

From the time those dogs and their handler left the police force, they have never provided a lead in a case that lead to any evidence being recovered.

Their failure rate was 100%.

cgcsb

Something Else

cnocbui wrote: »

From the time those dogs and their handler left the police force, they have never provided a lead in a case that lead to any evidence being recovered.

Their failure rate was 100%.

I've never heard that before. Have you a source for that?

SusieBlue

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

The body needn't have been in car to get a reaction from the dogs. The clothes/teddy bear being in the car boot would be sufficient if they were in contact with a corpse for long enough.

The dog handler didn't know which car was which and encouraged the dog back to many areas if he thought the dog didn't spend long enough at each area, same in the apartment.

I’m actually rewatching the documentary as we speak and I’m now on the episode with the dogs.

The handler calls the dogs back to the McCann vehicle not once, not twice, not three, but four times after it runs away to another car. The handler didn’t do this with any of the other cars in the car park.

The dogs have a proven track record for being unreliable. Even their handler says that they should only be used to support physical evidence, none of which was ever found.

cgcsb

Something Else

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’m actually rewatching the documentary as we speak and I’m now on the episode with the dogs.

The handler calls the dogs back to the McCann vehicle not once, not twice, not three, but four times after it runs away to another car. The handler didn’t do this with any of the other cars in the car park.

The dogs have a proven track record for being unreliable. Even their handler says that they should only be used to support physical evidence, none of which was ever found.

The handler does this with all cars, the footage was edited down for the doc. The dog can't testify in a court, he can only point investigators to where they might find physical evidence. The documentary indicated these two dogs had a particularly good track record. I haven't been able to google any testimony to the contrary.

punchdrunk

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

I always wondered about the lack of evidence/fingerprints too, but the police never secured the crime scene. There was up to 30 people in and out of the apartment in the hours after she went missing.
It’s very likely that if there was any evidence there, it was destroyed by contamination because the scene wasn’t sealed off at all.

criminals have long been aware of the value of DNA etc, wear a pair of gloves, be careful leaving and entering and there's not much to find.
it was a dry crime scene and dry weather so with a tiled floor not much likelihood of footprints either.

limnam

cgcsb wrote: »

The handler does this with all cars, the footage was edited down for the doc. The dog can't testify in a court, he can only point investigators to where they might find physical evidence. The documentary indicated these two dogs had a particularly good track record. I haven't been able to google any testimony to the contrary.

So good I believe the FBI went on to hire him.


But coconuts etc :rolleyes:

retro:electro

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

The handler does this with all cars, the footage was edited down for the doc. The dog can't testify in a court, he can only point investigators to where they might find physical evidence.
The documentary indicated these two dogs had a particularly good track record. I haven't been able to google any testimony to the contrary.

Of which there was none:

“Expert dog handler Martin Grime says that an alert from the cadaver dogs was not enough on its own; it was only ever intended as an indicator for the investigators to look for possible corroborating evidence – which, in this case, they did not find”

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

I've never heard that before. Have you a source for that?

I'm not aware of one, it's something I worked out from looking at the individual cases where they were employed. Haut de la Garenne, on Jersey, where false reporting by the dogs lead to the wasting of £20,000,000. The disappearance of Shannon Mathews, where the dogs reported on her gruesome death, only for her to found miraculously alive. The case in the US where the dogs indicated death in the garage, only for the body of the missing person to be discovered tens of miles away. And of course Madeline, where no trace of blood was ever found where indicated and no forensic evidence found whatsoever, in the several places where cadaverine was supposedly present.

At least they were consistent. I have never understood why people haven't been suspicious when a bloke starts bragging about how he threw away the normal Police mandated training procedures and came up with his own much more effective unapproved ones. In many other avenues of life where professional conduct is expected, such things would have triggered some serious prat alerts and questions and suspicions would have been raised.

nc6000

The parents did it

cgcsb wrote: »

The dog handler didn't know which car was which and encouraged the dog back to many areas if he thought the dog didn't spend long enough at each area, same in the apartment.

Their car had a missing person poster\flyer with a picture of Madeleine on it in the back window of the car, it was obvious which car was theirs.

I didn't find the video of the dogs very convincing at all.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

I’m actually rewatching the documentary as we speak and I’m now on the episode with the dogs.

The handler calls the dogs back to the McCann vehicle not once, not twice, not three, but four times after it runs away to another car. The handler didn’t do this with any of the other cars in the car park.

The dogs have a proven track record for being unreliable. Even their handler says that they should only be used to support physical evidence, none of which was ever found.

I have seen that video make even the most ardent of McCann accusers admit to feeling uncomfortable. It's epic, you don't even have to venture into the realms of subtle unconscious subliminal signalling, it's outright blatant. The bit in the apartment is scarcely any better.

cgcsb

Something Else

nc6000 wrote: »

Their car had a missing person poster\flyer with a picture of Madeleine on it in the back window of the car, it was obvious which car was theirs.

I didn't find the video of the dogs very convincing at all.

At the time those stickers were common even in Dublin. I'd say they were on every second car in the Algarve at the time.

cgcsb

Something Else

So why would the dog handler make the dogs give a false signal and damage his own reputation?

nc6000

The parents did it

cgcsb wrote: »

At the time those stickers were common even in Dublin. I'd say they were on every second car in the Algarve at the time.

The other cars in the video with the sniffer dogs didn't have them.

cnocbui

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cgcsb wrote: »

So why would the dog handler make the dogs give a false signal and damage his own reputation?

I'd offer to lend you a shovel, but you appear to have brought a digger.

nc6000

The parents did it

nc6000 wrote: »

The other cars in the video with the sniffer dogs didn't have them.

The handler also doesn't touch or tap the other cars.

ronivek

The most telling fact about the indication on the McCann's hired car is that it was only hired some 3+ weeks after Madeleine disappeared.

I don't see how anyone could believe the McCann's or anyone closely associated with them would have been able to conceal a body for that long and then transport it in that car without some physical trace left somewhere; when they weren't under direct Police surveillance they were being mobbed 24/7 by journalists.