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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #8882
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Think when covid was the big story someone here asked about the deaths per million here v the states. We were ahead at the time but the states were closing in. Yesterday they gained parity with us and will continue to grow. Over 112,000 dead.
    The protests have pushed the story back but America has some of the worst numbers for Covid of any country.


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    #8883
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    relax carry on wrote: »
    Im sorry but that is just drivel of the highest order. Trump is a failure in every aspect of his life. There is literally nothing there at all. If it weren't for his father's ill gotten gains Donald would be at best a 3rd rate used car salesman conning those with no choice but to be conned.

    It's not that he's unlikeable, he has no leadership qualities whatsoever. He is a bully and a conman unable to achieve consensus on anything. His bullying, inability to learn/understand anything that isn't about him and unwillingness to compromise have damaged America and will take decades to repair.

    The only people left working with and openly supporting him will pretty much agree to anything he says or does right now because they are 1: Too far gone at this stage to extract themselves from the mess that working for/supporting Trump has created for themselves
    2: They are zealots who have blinded themselves to his multitude of failings which make him unsuitable to run a lemonade stand let alone be POTUS
    3: They may not believe in him and probably despise him but they believe in the fantasy ultra conservative vision for America he sometimes manges to convey in his ramblings so are stuck with him.

    Good to see you are impartial in these matters....


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    #8884
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    salmocab wrote: »
    Think when covid was the big story someone here asked about the deaths per million here v the states. We were ahead at the time but the states were closing in. Yesterday they gained parity with us and will continue to grow. Over 112,000 dead.
    The protests have pushed the story back but America has some of the worst numbers for Covid of any country.

    And sadly, because of the close proximity of protesters for extended periods of time, social distancing protocols went out the window. That won't help the case/infection rate in the coming fortnight or so, as any spreading that took place in the early days of protests become cases that will test positive.


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    #8885
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,227 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Good to see you are impartial in these matters....

    Is that the height of your rebuttal or have you something more substantial to back yourself up with?


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    #8886
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    And sadly, because of the close proximity of protesters for extended periods of time, social distancing protocols went out the window. That won't help the case/infection rate in the coming fortnight or so, as any spreading that took place in the early days of protests become cases that will test positive.

    Certainly isn’t going to help but there was a big push to open up happening regardless, it’s hard to see it going away over there anytime soon. A few hundred a day die of this and amazingly it’s been an easy second place story wise.


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    #8887
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Is that the height of your rebuttal or have you something more substantial to back yourself up with?

    Nothing more needed tbh.


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    #8888
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,227 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Nothing more needed tbh.
    Well why don't you explain why, in your view, they're being biased


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    #8889
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    salmocab wrote: »
    Certainly isn’t going to help but there was a big push to open up happening regardless, it’s hard to see it going away over there anytime soon. A few hundred a day die of this and amazingly it’s been an easy second place story wise.

    I find this really, rather peculiar.

    How is it possible that Covid has just been sidelined all of a sudden?


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    #8890
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,630 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    salmocab wrote: »
    Think when covid was the big story someone here asked about the deaths per million here v the states. We were ahead at the time but the states were closing in. Yesterday they gained parity with us and will continue to grow. Over 112,000 dead.
    The protests have pushed the story back but America has some of the worst numbers for Covid of any country.

    Numbers are on an upward trend in 26 out of 50 states and not really doing anything other than plateauing in the rest.

    The CDC expectation is now 145000 dead by the 24th June.
    What's worse is that there is still a huge degree of obfuscation around the numbers of Covid deaths reported particularly in Rep. States.

    The actual analysis of excess deaths for the period Feb - to date in the US will be very interesting.
    The pneumonia death rate in FL. presently as an example of probable underreporting.

    Trump seems to have made a conscious decision to pay a price of @5000 lives per week to get the economy moving.

    Then along comes the legitimate response to systemic racism to bend the US over a barrel and set up a shítshow of epic proportions that is far beyond the ability of Trump to control.


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    #8891
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    I find this really, rather peculiar.

    How is it possible that Covid has just been sidelined all of a sudden?

    I’m sure your fishing given your recent posts but I’ll answer anyway, it’s because the current events are box office and it’s what the media wants to talk about now.


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    #8892
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    salmocab wrote: »
    I’m sure your fishing given your recent posts but I’ll answer anyway, it’s because the current events are box office and it’s what the media wants to talk about now.

    I was waiting for the "you don't agree with me, ergo, you are a troll" response.

    Yawn.


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    #8893
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    banie01 wrote: »
    Numbers are on an upward trend in 26 out of 50 states and not really doing anything other than plateauing in the rest.

    The CDC expectation is now 145000 dead by the 24th June.
    What's worse is that there is still a huge degree of obfuscation around the numbers of Covid deaths reported particularly in Rep. States.

    The actual analysis of excess deaths for the period Feb - to date in the US will be very interesting.
    The pneumonia death rate in FL. presently as an example of probable underreporting.

    Trump seems to have made a conscious decision to pay a price of @5000 lives per week to get the economy moving.

    Then along comes the legitimate response to systemic racism to bend the US over a barrel and set up a shítshow of epic proportions that is far beyond the ability of Trump to control.

    Yeah I’m sure there’s been underreporting going on but even without that it’s been a disaster. Trump has made an absolute pigs ear of this. It was always going to hit hard but the mitigation measures were not enough, too late and not long enough. Plenty of blame to be shared around and far too many leaders played politics with people’s lives.


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    #8894
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    I was waiting for the "you don't agree with me, ergo, you are a troll" response.

    Yawn.

    Which you didn’t get, you got an answer.


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    #8895
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    banie01 wrote: »
    Numbers are on an upward trend in 26 out of 50 states and not really doing anything other than plateauing in the rest.

    The CDC expectation is now 145000 dead by the 24th June.
    What's worse is that there is still a huge degree of obfuscation around the numbers of Covid deaths reported particularly in Rep. States.

    The actual analysis of excess deaths for the period Feb - to date in the US will be very interesting.
    The pneumonia death rate in FL. presently as an example of probable underreporting.

    Trump seems to have made a conscious decision to pay a price of @5000 lives per week to get the economy moving.

    Then along comes the legitimate response to systemic racism to bend the US over a barrel and set up a shítshow of epic proportions that is far beyond the ability of Trump to control.

    The problem here is that the actual figures have potential to do very serious damage.

    If the death rates are higher than predicted, then the accusations will fly about not doing enough.
    If the death rates are lower than predicted, then the accusations will fly about doing to much.

    Its a lose/lose


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    #8896
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    salmocab wrote: »
    Which you didn’t get, you got an answer.

    You do you.
    I aint walking into the threadban trap here.


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    #8897
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    The problem here is that the actual figures have potential to do very serious damage.

    If the death rates are higher than predicted, then the accusations will fly about not doing enough.
    If the death rates are lower than predicted, then the accusations will fly about doing to much.

    Its a lose/lose

    Doing too much? What are you talking about it’s not a lose/lose. Covid was not Trumps fault he could have had a relatively easy win but he didn’t make the tough decisions and show the leadership America needed.


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    #8898
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    A few too many glib one-liners today.

    Up the standards please.


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    #8899
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    salmocab wrote: »
    Doing too much? What are you talking about it’s not a lose/lose. Covid was not Trumps fault he could have had a relatively easy win but he didn’t make the tough decisions and show the leadership America needed.

    A relatively easy win with Covid?

    Watch the news. One side is up in arms about the shut downs, and the other up in arms about not having shut downs.

    Its america. Seems like nobody takes any notice of the leaders over there anyway.
    Most would argue the State governers are the main leaders and the POTUS is just a figurehead.


  • Options
    #8900
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,630 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    salmocab wrote: »
    Yeah I’m sure there’s been underreporting going on but even without that it’s been a disaster. Trump has made an absolute pigs ear of this. It was always going to hit hard but the mitigation measures were not enough, too late and not long enough. Plenty of blame to be shared around and far too many leaders played politics with people’s lives.

    His conviction that he is always the smartest person in the room and his diminishment of the danger posed by Covid until mid march has already seen the low end estimated deaths of 60k be blown past.

    The bluster about CDC specialists being amazed by how well he understood Covid!
    The man is a simpering idiot who has been far too indulged.

    Now in what is honestly by any measure the greatest Domestic crisis America has faced since the '68 riots, rather than attempt to be conciliatory or build some form of consensus?

    He has ramped up the nonsensical Strongman rhetoric and split the nation even further.

    There is a glaring and distinct lack of moral leadership on show and it has the knock on effect of undermining US hegemony across all spheres.

    Imagine China, Turkey, Saudi or anyone else being dictated to by the US on how to handle internal dissent after US actions over the past 2 weeks?

    The status of the US as global policeman has been well and truly shattered and will take a generation of diplomacy as well as societal change at home to overcome.


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    #8901
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,631 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    banie01 wrote: »
    Numbers are on an upward trend in 26 out of 50 states and not really doing anything other than plateauing in the rest.

    The CDC expectation is now 145000 dead by the 24th June.
    What's worse is that there is still a huge degree of obfuscation around the numbers of Covid deaths reported particularly in Rep. States.

    The actual analysis of excess deaths for the period Feb - to date in the US will be very interesting.
    The pneumonia death rate in FL. presently as an example of probable underreporting.

    Trump seems to have made a conscious decision to pay a price of @5000 lives per week to get the economy moving.

    Then along comes the legitimate response to systemic racism to bend the US over a barrel and set up a shítshow of epic proportions that is far beyond the ability of Trump to control.

    145k deaths by 24 June is incredible. TBH I had stopped taking notice after it hit 100k deaths about two weeks back and see now today it is passed 112k, it doesnt seemed to have slowed down at all.

    Would wonder what the CDC might be predicting the numbers to be at election time in November? If its not properly under control it could hit over 200 or 250k. Trump saying he made a great decision to shut down flights from China wont really wash with over 200k deaths. He needs to win Florida and the aging population there will be looking at his cavalier attitude to public health.


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    #8902
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,404 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    The problem here is that the actual figures have potential to do very serious damage.

    If the death rates are higher than predicted, then the accusations will fly about not doing enough.
    If the death rates are lower than predicted, then the accusations will fly about doing to much.

    Its a lose/lose

    The second option is only a lose to those who think it's acceptable if there are more deaths, and no attention should be paid to those people.

    The option that would have resulted in far fewer deaths, that's the win regardless of what hardships might have come with that. It's just not the option the Trump Administration went with.


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    #8903
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,073 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    A relatively easy win with Covid?

    Watch the news. One side is up in arms about the shut downs, and the other up in arms about not having shut downs.

    Its america. Seems like nobody takes any notice of the leaders over there anyway.
    Most would argue the State governers are the main leaders and the POTUS is just a figurehead.

    Governors and the President share blame / responsibility here: it's up to the federal and local governments to coordinate, work together or at the very least - get out of each other's way. For Trump it was an "easy win" because figurehead or not (not IMO, the office has plenty of executive power) like most world leaders all he had to do was project competence, authority and assuredness that things were in control and order. Even figureheads should be expected to do that much.

    We already saw the exact same scenario play out - on a smaller scale - during Hurricane Maria when it battered Porto Rico. Trump could have been the man in charge, instead he called the death toll a Democrat conspiracy, tossed paper towels like basketballs at victims, and picked a fight with the Mayor.

    I doubt anyone would consider Leo Varadkar particularly popular pre CoVid, yet in exuding the above qualities of leadership, he could now arguably win a general election. Same in other countries - IIRC Macron has seen his popularity bounce back, but open to correction 'cos haven't dug deeply there. Yet here we have Trump now as unpopular as ever, because he was chaotic, shambling and generally made Washington look rudderless during a national existential crisis.


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    #8904
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,315 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    A relatively easy win with Covid?

    Watch the news. One side is up in arms about the shut downs, and the other up in arms about not having shut downs.

    Its america. Seems like nobody takes any notice of the leaders over there anyway.
    Most would argue the State governers are the main leaders and the POTUS is just a figurehead.

    Yes relatively easy win, if he acted fast and the death toll had been kept in check he would have had something to actually boast about, both sides are up in arms because one side wanted more done and one wanted less, the side that wanted less could have been softened with leadership but instead they got a strange support. Hes only become a figurehead since things went wrong up to that stage he was the reason for everything good but then when things went wrong it wasn't on him, I dont believe any rational person believes he can have it both ways.


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    #8905
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    Good to see you are impartial in these matters....

    Not sure what you mean by that. His own unedited words via tweets, interview/briefing transcripts, actions/inactions show him for what he is. He is as described. There is no misunderstood genius under attack by the media. There is no 4D chess being played. All there is, is a failure of a human being holding the office of POTUS. That speaks volumes about the state of the US political, economic, social and educational systems. Trump is not the cause of the multitude of ills in American society but he is a catalyst for the worsening of those issues.


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    #8906
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,559 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    And that has got to be a major worry for Trump. He has given away the largest tax reduction for high earners in history, been at the helm when the economy was doing well.

    But now his numbers are going down, when many other world leaders are seeing their numbers go up. He has already given away trillions to try to minimise the damage, so the scope of doing more is very limited.

    And it looks increasingly likely that Covid will still be having a big impact in the US into the Autumn, and from there very possibly into the October/November time.

    I'm sure the protests will have died down at that stage, but the memories won't have gone. But if Covid continues as is, particularly if even the likes of the UK can get a handle on it, then Trump is in very serious trouble.

    And I see no plan from him on how to avoid any of it. It might not happen, but that will be luck rather than anything he is particularly doing. Luck, although there is always a place for it, seems a help of a gamble.


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    #8907
    abff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭abff


    Trump's core support seems to be so blind to his faults that they will vote for him come what may. Maybe a small percentage will jump ship, but the vast majority will continue to believe whatever claptrap he chooses to tell them and will dismiss any negative comments as "fake news".

    The Republican leadership is so compromised at this stage that they probably feel that they have little choice but to play the hand out. They have abandoned most of their principles in a deplorable grab for power at any cost. The only way they will abandon Trump at this stage is if he does something so egregious that even they can't ignore it. But it's hard to envisage what that might be, given everything they've allowed him to get away with up to now.

    So, the key to avoiding another 4 years of mayhem may be finding some way of overcoming the inertia that may be generated by the Democrats having a "ho hum" candidate. If I knew the answer to this conundrum, I wouldn't be sitting here in Ireland posting on an internet forum.


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    #8908
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    abff wrote: »
    Trump's core support seems to be so blind to his faults that they will vote for him come what may. Maybe a small percentage will jump ship, but the vast majority will continue to believe whatever claptrap he chooses to tell them and will dismiss any negative comments as "fake news".

    The Republican leadership is so compromised at this stage that they probably feel that they have little choice but to play the hand out. They have abandoned most of their principles in a deplorable grab for power at any cost. The only way they will abandon Trump at this stage is if he does something so egregious that even they can't ignore it. But it's hard to envisage what that might be, given everything they've allowed him to get away with up to now.

    So, the key to avoiding another 4 years of mayhem may be finding some way of overcoming the inertia that may be generated by the Democrats having a "ho hum" candidate. If I knew the answer to this conundrum, I wouldn't be sitting here in Ireland posting on an internet forum.

    There was an article over the week-end talking about the current state of play in the Polls.

    Biden is currently above 50% support in the "poll of polls" averages - At no point did Clinton even get close to 50% support in 2016 , Her support was in the low to mid 40% all along , there was always a fairly decent chunk of undecideds throughout the campaign.

    Biden is also polling a lot higher among Democrats than Clinton did and indeed polling higher with Democrats than Trump is with GOP voters.

    Trumps poll recovery and victory last time out were from the "undecideds" falling his way , he didn't convert Democrat voters in any meaningful way.

    That pathway is not currently available to him , there simply aren't enough undecideds out there , so Trump needs to win over Biden supporters , which is very hard to see right now.

    He also campaigned as a much more moderate choice than he actually turned out to be , which would have definitely helped him with the "Sure , How bad could it be , let's shake things up a bit" vote.

    Now though , given he has continued to double and redouble on appealing to his base, it's hard to see how he gets those same categories of voters this time round.


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    #8909
    Roger the cabin boy
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Roger the cabin boy


    abff wrote: »
    Trump's core support seems to be so blind to his faults that they will vote for him come what may. Maybe a small percentage will jump ship, but the vast majority will continue to believe whatever claptrap he chooses to tell them and will dismiss any negative comments as "fake news".

    The Republican leadership is so compromised at this stage that they probably feel that they have little choice but to play the hand out. They have abandoned most of their principles in a deplorable grab for power at any cost. The only way they will abandon Trump at this stage is if he does something so egregious that even they can't ignore it. But it's hard to envisage what that might be, given everything they've allowed him to get away with up to now.

    So, the key to avoiding another 4 years of mayhem may be finding some way of overcoming the inertia that may be generated by the Democrats having a "ho hum" candidate. If I knew the answer to this conundrum, I wouldn't be sitting here in Ireland posting on an internet forum.

    If Biden is the best the Dems have, Trump wins.

    Biden won't be president.


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    #8910
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭moon2


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    If Biden is the best the Dems have, Trump wins.

    Biden won't be president.

    If Trump is the best the Republicans have they've lost the presidency for a decade.

    Trump won't be president.


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    #8911
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,559 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Roger the cabin boy wrote: »
    If Biden is the best the Dems have, Trump wins.

    Biden won't be president.

    The Democrats said the exact same thing about Trump last time.

    Biden has been a Senator for years, was VP for 8. The guy knows how to win in elections. Whether he can against Trump is another matter, but to simply dismiss hi, on the basis on nothing concrete apart from some one liners is pointless.

    What has Trump done that you would consider him a better person for the job.

    Or, seeing as Trump in the incumbent, is there anything that you think Trump is doing that Biden couldn't?

    Biden as one very strong item in his favour. He was the VP when the Affordable Care Act went through against a GOP held congress. Trump had total control and could not come up with anything better.

    At best, all Trump can say is that he will tweak it, to which Biden simply needs to retort that the genius was in getting in past in the first place and wait the applause!


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