Used Model S vs new Model 3

markpb · 07-06-2020 10:38PM

Gumbo wrote: »

If he buys from Tesla, a CPO he will loose the super charging, premium connectivity etc as Tesla appear to be removing them from all CPO cars.

I wouldn’t place too much value on free super charging. Tesla have an extremely limited network here and no sign of expansion so it’s only going to be useful to a small number of people. Even then, you’d need to be using them very frequently for it to make much difference. And then, if you over use them, you’ll nerf your battery.

Black_Knight · 07-06-2020 10:40PM

Feel like im in the same boat, but with less money. Model S kinda ticks all the boxes, but has 2 drawbacks. 1. it's big, and would fairly dominate my driveway, and 2. it's big, and might scare my wife away from driving it. She's gotten very comfortable driving the Ioniq these days (while her car sits in the driveway gathering cobwebs... like it does most the year), and taking her car out involves removing both cars from the driveway which would be tiresome if she's afraid to move a giant model S.

The Model 3 on the other hand isn't lacking on boot storage from what i've seen in videos, and there's the frunk too. Wife would be able to drive it (at least likely to be more comfortable in it than a Model S). But there's the cost.

Ioniq is perfectly fine at the moment, but when baby #2 arrives, and we have to go anywhere with a boot absolutely brimming (or not bring certain things), and stop en route... I can hear the sighing already. That will likely be the tipping point. eNiro was originally the plan, but I don't see many of those going around. Model S is the alternative, but see above. Model 3 is probably ideal, but €€€. This time next year the "I told you so's" will begin, but with VAT on imports from the end of 2020, and the model 3 too young to depreciate enough to be affordable (to me), i'm struggling to see what my options are.

TLDR:
Ioniq small and only have it a year, baby 2 coming.
Model S big, wifey scared, and "we just got a car".
Model 3 pricey, and "we just got a car".

Gumbo · 07-06-2020 10:49PM

Nedved85 wrote: »

The MCU on the facelift models is ok no? It's the older ones that have issues?

Even the older ones now seem to be ok since a recent update. It reduced the data logging and hence the stress that the MCU is under.

Also worth noting there are aftermarket fixes in the UK for about £500.

Gumbo · 07-06-2020 10:51PM

markpb wrote: »

I wouldn’t place too much value on free super charging. Tesla have an extremely limited network here and no sign of expansion so it’s only going to be useful to a small number of people. Even then, you’d need to be using them very frequently for it to make much difference. And then, if you over use them, you’ll nerf your battery.

Either do I. Hence my posts in the MS thread

But I just wanted to print it out to the OP. Along with the connectivity removal it’s just a little annoying.

unkel · 07-06-2020 10:56PM

Nedved85 wrote: »

Resureccting a bit of an old thread here

And a bittersweet resurrection it is. The OP went for the used Model S. But his car got stolen recently. So I think he might be back to this same choice again.

Nedved85 wrote: »

No need for a 7 seater, but the hatchback would be useful should any kids come along.

Saying that, the Model 3 would do the job for us too to be honest.

You have no kids yet, you don't need the practicality or space yet. Only you can gauge when it is likely you will need those. Are you planning to start a family very soon? Or maybe not so soon?

In my view it's a bit pointless to buy something now for a situation you might be in or a need you might have in the future. That's why I'm voting Model 3. The base model is not super value for money in Ireland, it's a bit overpriced. But that said, there is nothing else like it out there, supply of EVs will likely be smaller than demand for the next year or two anyway so it should have relatively low depreciation

Nedved85 wrote: »

The MCU on the facelift models is ok no? It's the older ones that have issues?

No, they are the same. Only very recent cars get the newer MCU2. The issue with the MCU1 is much less likely to rear its ugly head now that a software update has stopped all the mad logging of data to the limited lifespan flash storage chip. But always a good idea to buy a used Tesla with a Tesla warranty if you can...

07-06-2020 10:58PM

Black_Knight wrote: »

eNiro was originally the plan, but I don't see many of those going around. .

Eniro is probably the most sensible option, good warranty and pretty reliable cars.

If anything goes wrong on a model S it can be expensive, Air suspension can cost thousands for instance. Door handles couple of grand too I heard. Common issue.

If you do low enough miles a model S with some mileage might not be so bad but for me it could be a completely different matter doing 30K Kms a year and the rest.

unkel · 07-06-2020 11:05PM

A lot of talk about expensive issues on the Model S, and that's an entirely fair point. It should be noted though that all Model S in the UK and Ireland are still covered under the 8 year motor, battery and drive train warranty. For another 2 years even for the oldest cars.

And as I said, a good idea to get a car with a Tesla warranty. No other manufacturer in the world offers a 2 year or sometimes even 4 year warranty on a used car that's already 6 years old. My warranty for my car bought directly from Tesla is going to last me the full 2 years, and the car slave1 got (in a private sale!) came with a near 2.5 year cover-to-cover warranty! And Tesla customer service is excellent when it comes to warranty repairs.

Black_Knight · 07-06-2020 11:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Eniro is probably the most sensible option, good warranty and pretty reliable cars.

If anything goes wrong on a model S it can be expensive, Air suspension can cost thousands for instance. Door handles couple of grand too I heard. Common issue.

If you do low enough miles a model S with some mileage might not be so bad but for me it could be a completely different matter doing 30K Kms a year and the rest.

Model S at ~€35k or less vs eNiro at €40k. Up to 2 years warranty (if CPO, which would be more likely if I did) vs 7 years warranty. I don't do much mileage at all. 15k kms a year.
If a 1-2 year old M3 was around eNiro money it'd certainly be worth thinking about, but if 2nd hand 1-2 year old eNiros appear at the same time for ~30k then the M3 is a harder sell.

Black_Knight · 07-06-2020 11:11PM

unkel wrote: »

A lot of talk about expensive issues on the Model S, and that's an entirely fair point. It should be noted though that all Model S in the UK and Ireland are still covered under the 8 year motor, battery and drive train warranty. For another 2 years even for the oldest cars.

And as I said, a good idea to get a car with a Tesla warranty. No other manufacturer in the world offers a 2 year or sometimes even 4 year warranty on a used car that's already 6 years old. My warranty for my car bought directly from Tesla is going to last me the full 2 years, and the car slave1 got (in a private sale!) came with a near 2.5 year cover-to-cover warranty! And Tesla customer service is excellent when it comes to warranty repairs.

Odd when you read up about a used Tesla and you're delighted to see "new battery, 3 door handles changed, MCU upgraded". You think to yourself, thank God all that stuff has gone wrong already!

unkel · 07-06-2020 11:12PM

Sure thing. But none of those need to worry you when you got a 2 year warranty from Tesla

And all of those (except the battery) still need to worry you when you buy privately with no warranty

07-06-2020 11:22PM

2 year warranty mileage limited ?

The model s would be a car I’d keep a long time 2 years warranty isn’t a lot really considering my mileage.

8 year drivetrain isn’t a lot either when the car is already 5 or 6 years old.

It’sa risk no doubt about it. One of my greatest worries would be the air suspension.

What’s the warranty on the Niro ? 7 years what does that include? Everything for 7 years but mileage limited?

Mike3287 · 07-06-2020 11:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eniro is probably the most sensible option, good warranty and pretty reliable cars.

If anything goes wrong on a model S it can be expensive, Air suspension can cost thousands for instance. Door handles couple of grand too I heard. Common issue.

If you do low enough miles a model S with some mileage might not be so bad but for me it could be a completely different matter doing 30K Kms a year and the rest.

When you look back on your life in 20 years, don't you want to be able to say you had the balls to get the right car?

That ain't a bloody e-Niro btw ;-)

Also how anyone can pick a model 3 over model S too

Saw a 3 in town recently, my god was it ugly, the back ahhhh, awful

Model S much better looking car, especially 17 up, stunning car

Model 3 with aero wheels one of the ugliest yokes I've ever seen

Nedved85 · 07-06-2020 11:27PM

No kids unkel, but you'd never know in the nearish future that might be a factor. I think a Model 3 would do spacewise so I don't think I'd rule it out for that.

Also, as mentioned above (by Gumbo I think) , I don't think my other half would drive a Model S, she would drive a Model 3.

Side note, I actually had money down on a loaner Model 3 here from Tesla that was low 40s pretty recently. I had to back out as I could not sell my leaf in time and the trade in was brutal. The exact same car went back up on the inventory and sold recently for almost 6k more! The upside to all of this is that if I do indeed import a used model 3, I have have documentation that shows a keenly priced used Model 3 Tesla advertised here...

ie low VRT

Mike3287 · 07-06-2020 11:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

2 year warranty mileage limited ?

The model s would be a car I’d keep a long time 2 years warranty isn’t a lot really considering my mileage.

8 year drivetrain isn’t a lot either when the car is already 5 or 6 years old.

It’sa risk no doubt about it. One of my greatest worries would be the air suspension.

What’s the warranty on the Niro ? 7 years what does that include? Everything for 7 years but mileage limited?

100k cars are not for plebs, no offence

If your worried about running costs out of warranty a 100k Tesla MS aint for you

07-06-2020 11:35PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

100k cars are not for plebs, no offence

If your worried about running costs out of warranty a 100k Tesla MS aint for you

Why should I not be worried about a car that could cost thousands to fix if it breaks ? I don’t want to throw money away on a car unnecessarily. I got to work for it.

I do fair bit of driving which is only going to increase actually now that I think about it because I changed jobs and back to Monday to Friday and no longer on shift so mileage will increase a lot due to not having such time off.

unkel · 07-06-2020 11:36PM

Nedved85 wrote: »

Also, as mentioned above (by Gumbo I think) , I don't think my other half would drive a Model S

Black_Night. And it's a valid point. Model S is much longer than any car most previous owners have ever driven at about 5m long, but the width is the killer. Even if you're a very confident driver, it takes guts and skill to drive it into some of the multistory carparks. Or even some tight drive thrus. While of course ignoring the car beeping NOOOOOO!!!! at you all the time.

Nedved85 wrote: »

I actually had money down on a loaner Model 3 here from Tesla that was low 40s pretty recently. I had to back out as I could not sell my leaf in time

Bloody hell, you should have found or forced a solution there, that was a bargain, presuming it was a 2020 Model 3?

Gumbo · 07-06-2020 11:37PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

When you look back on your life in 20 years, don't you want to be able to say you had the balls to get the right car?

I and others very rarely agree with you, but I do here. And you know what, I’m even gonna like that post for this sentence alone.

unkel · 07-06-2020 11:41PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

100k cars are not for plebs, no offence

If your worried about running costs out of warranty a 100k Tesla MS aint for you

I for one am happy that you are back posting here man. But then you come out straight away with a stinker like that. Which will make many in here think what are you, a child?

Of course it bloody matters what out of warranty repairs can be expected and how much they cost. Pretty much none of the regulars in here could afford to or even if they could, would be willing to spend the guts of 100k on a car. We're not made of money. Personally I have not much more than a beer income. But I really like many aspects of a champagne lifestyle. This can be done. But you need to be very careful in your approach and handling. Buy well, sell well and hedge your risks. Potential expensive problems are crucial in all of this.

Mike3287 · 07-06-2020 11:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should I not be worried about a car that could cost thousands to fix if it breaks ? I don’t want to throw money away on a car unnecessarily. I got to work for it.

I do fair bit of driving which is only going to increase actually now that I think about it because I changed jobs and back to Monday to Friday and no longer on shift so mileage will increase a lot due to not having such time off.

That's the whole point

You shouldnt have to be worried

Its a car for rich people, with no money worries

Nedved85 · 07-06-2020 11:46PM

unkel wrote: »

Bloody hell, you should have found or forced a solution there, that was a bargain, presuming it was a 2020 Model 3?

Bargain, absolutely. 192 reg. Very low mileage, not the color I wanted to be honest, but I was OK with that given the price.

It was the start of the pandemic, no way I could sell my car.

Financially it was way too much of a gamble at that time so I could not proceed. I would have needed a significant bridging loan and my gut felt wrong risking it at that time.

Leaf gone now and I feel confident enough to either go for the s or a used M3 in the UK.

Delighted I have the docs if I do import a Model 3 though

Mike3287 · 07-06-2020 11:46PM

unkel wrote: »

I for one am happy that you are back posting here man. But then you come out straight away with a stinker like that. Which will make many in here think what are you, a child?

Of course it bloody matters what out of warranty repairs can be expected and how much they cost. Pretty much none of the regulars in here could afford to or even if they could, would be willing to spend the guts of 100k on a car. We're not made of money. Personally I have not much more than a beer income. But I really like many aspects of a champagne lifestyle. This can be done. But you need to be very careful in your approach and handling. Buy well, sell well and hedge your risks. Potential expensive problems are crucial in all of this.

Your not gonna keep it out of warranty?

Your that risk averse?

Your smart and frugal, so is Madlad

Its not a car you keep out of warranty

Unless your loaded

All I am saying

Get rid when warranty is up.

unkel · 07-06-2020 11:53PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

Your not gonna keep it out of warranty?

Your that risk averse?

Where did I say that?

Very hard to predict the future, but chances are I will keep this car for a long time. It's basically my dream car. Will cost me less in TCO than a 3 year old Toyota Corolla / Skoda Octavia that most people with similar finances to mine would typically own

08-06-2020 12:02AM

The boot opening on the m3 is a bit crap ?

Mike3287 · 08-06-2020 12:08AM

unkel wrote: »

Where did I say that?

Very hard to predict the future, but chances are I will keep this car for a long time. It's basically my dream car. Will cost me less in TCO than a 3 year old Toyota Corolla / Skoda Octavia that most people with similar finances to mine would typically own

I admire your business acumen, really do

You've played the EV scene very very well so far and called market correct

Free brand new Ioniq for 3 years, Model S for peanuts, even done well from Tesla shares ;-)

Think an out of a warranty Model S and not getting a major bill is pushing it, even for you.

Will you risk keeping it out of warranty for a few years

I dont think you will

Something else will catch your eye and save you

unkel · 08-06-2020 12:34AM

I will take that as a compliment, so thank you

Mike3287 wrote: »

Think an out of a warranty Model S and not getting a major bill is pushing it, even for you.

Will you risk keeping it out of warranty for a few years

I dont think you will

The plan is that yes, I will keep it out of warranty. Is that risky? Yes of course. But let's analyse it a bit more.

My car is already 6 years old, I will have another 2 years of motor, battery and drivetrain warranty. Is the motor going to fail after that? Almost certainly not. I've worked a bit with electric motors over the past few years (see my eBike thread

) and these are pretty much indestructible. Is the battery going to fail after that? Most unlikely, but I expect degradation. I can live with that.

Other expensive parts, DC-DC inverter? Either one of the AC chargers? It's possible but the life expectancy is 10-15 years. I will take my chances. We're talking a grand to fix, maybe two. Not ten.

Door handles? My DIY skills are pretty poor. But thank the Lord for YouTube and with a little bit of persistence I should be able to fix stuff like that myself. For little enough money

MCU1? Thankfully the chance of this problem happening has gone down quite a bit after a recent software update. And thankfully Tesla indy shops have sprung up in other countries that can fix this (and make it go away forever) for not more than about €500. Not yet in this country though, but it would be a good excuse to drive the car over to the UK, or to NL

08-06-2020 09:30AM

I just added it up, I'd be nearer 35,000 kms a year now possibly a bit more due to run-a-bout mileage, weekends away etc. Kind of gone beyond now where any new car or PCP makes sense.

Possibility is to keep the i3 but no work charging now and I'm going to have to rely on the Rex in Winter, already used it once or twice last week but I really put the boot down but one of the days was cool and windy and I used the heater in the morning.

If I go to a non BMW garage after my PCP they'll give me rock bottom price and I might not get more than the GFMV in fact I'm pretty sure I won't.

Some use of the Rex will be a lot cheaper than depreciation on a new car.

Hard to know what to do.

Model S 1 -2 year warranty left. Probably mileage limited.

Kia 7 year etc

slave1 · 08-06-2020 09:41AM

Nedved85 wrote: »

...
Side note, I actually had money down on a loaner Model 3 here from Tesla that was low 40s pretty recently. I had to back out as I could not sell my leaf in time and the trade in was brutal. The exact same car went back up on the inventory and sold recently for almost 6k more! The upside to all of this is that if I do indeed import a used model 3, I have have documentation that shows a keenly priced used Model 3 Tesla advertised here...

ie low VRT

Sorry bud, the M3 has a transparant OMSP here from the Tesla site which Revenue will apply to their predetermined depreciation tables etc.
But it may help your appeal if you have a few of them...
I'm like you though, have loads of low price Teslas clipped for my VRT appeal (whenever I get to VRT it, that is)

ELM327 · 08-06-2020 09:44AM

Mike3287 wrote: »

I admire your business acumen, really do

You've played the EV scene very very well so far and called market correct

Free brand new Ioniq for 3 years, Model S for peanuts, even done well from Tesla shares ;-)

Think an out of a warranty Model S and not getting a major bill is pushing it, even for you.

Will you risk keeping it out of warranty for a few years

I dont think you will

Something else will catch your eye and save you

Am in the same boat here and am already tempted!

Nedved85 · 08-06-2020 09:46AM

slave1 wrote: »

Sorry bud, the M3 has a transparant OMSP here from the Tesla site which Revenue will apply to their predetermined depreciation tables etc.
But it may help your appeal if you have a few of them...
I'm like you though, have loads of low price Teslas clipped for my VRT appeal (whenever I get to VRT it, that is)

Um I have an order agreement for a 192 Model 3, with my name address etc on it. Not sure how revenue can argue with that second hand valuation, directly from the manufacturer. It had two additional extras too, colour and white seats.

ELM327 · 08-06-2020 10:02AM

Nedved85 wrote: »

Um I have an order agreement for a 192 Model 3, with my name address etc on it. Not sure how revenue can argue with that second hand valuation, directly from the manufacturer. It had two additional extras too, colour and white seats.

If you buy from a manufacturer directly, a new car has a multiplier applied to OMSP which from memory reduces it by 10%.
If you import a 6 month old model 3 you will pay more VRT than someone buying a new one here.

#simi_protectionism

Used Model S vs new Model 3

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