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Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Boggles wrote: »
    But there is absolute no evidence to suggest that hand washing is in a different "stratosphere" in preventing spread to wearing masks.
    Masks are not a substitute for basic hygiene such as washing hands, sneezing into sleeve, not touching face. This isn't a matter of opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,959 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    hmmm wrote: »
    Masks are not a substitute for basic hygiene such as washing hands, sneezing into sleeve, not touching face. This isn't a matter of opinion.

    No one suggested they were.

    :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I’m not saying this has anything to do with masks but i worked all through the lockdown and my work involves dealing with the public. My work also involves getting around hence the lockdown didn’t restrict my movements much at all.

    I’d say i was a higher risk of catching this virus than most people during the lockdown. I wore a mask and i wore gloves during each job, hand sanitizer and washed my hands.

    I never caught it. I must have done something right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I’m not saying this has anything to do with masks but i worked all through the lockdown and my work involves dealing with the public. My work also involves getting around hence the lockdown didn’t restrict my movements much at all.

    I’d say i was a higher risk of catching this virus than most people during the lockdown. I wore a mask and i wore gloves during each job, hand sanitizer and washed my hands.

    I never caught it. I must have done something right.
    My parents work in a hospital (non-medical role) and public-facing financial role (I'm unemployed, clearly), never once wore a mask or gloves, washed their hands after every transaction and have also never caught it. The same could be said both ways. There's simply not a lot of the virus in the community. Basic hygiene and everyone will be fine.


  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My parents work in a hospital (non-medical role) and public-facing financial role (I'm unemployed, clearly), never once wore a mask or gloves, washed their hands after every transaction and have also never caught it. The same could be said both ways. There's simply not a lot of the virus in the community. Basic hygiene and everyone will be fine.

    Tbf its something,perhaps the government should look into

    Distributing 50 packs of masks to every household....in event of an uptick,they could make wearing masks mandatory and hopefully stave off having to shut down entire country??


    Be much more useful.than the iodine tablets of my youth


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Boggles wrote: »
    What an utterly bizarre way to look at something. :confused:

    Anyway the reality is Masks will be more than likely mandatory on Public transport here shortly, the unions want it before things get far busier and by the sounds of it the North are about to follow the motherland.

    Do you think we'll get masks mandatory this week? People are getting busier already.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Do you think we'll get masks mandatory this week? People are getting busier already.

    I think masks on public transport, where at least there is a reasonable logic given confined space for a period of time with others, will still only happen if the WHO change advice from recommended to mandatory. If they do that, they'd really want to distinguish between shops and transport which are entirely different situations in terms of continued proximity to others.

    But the Govt uses same language as WHO to the word normally.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    Do you think we'll get masks mandatory this week? People are getting busier already.

    For your're sanity, I hope so


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes, but I think in terms of recommendations, hand washing is in the stratosphere of preventing transmission compared to masks.

    I'm not saying that masks have no value, just that I think they have value mainly in closed confined areas for a period of time..perhaps including public transport.

    That makes zero sense. Hand washing prevents transmission. It's spread by respiratory droplets, so masks prevents transmission by keeping your droplets in.

    Masks provide value being indoors where people go. So shops, shopping centres, public transport, any public building with people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Rob A. Bank


    A useful resource... https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/

    Almost 90% of the world's population lives in countries that recommend or mandate the use of masks in public; more than 75 countries have mandated the use of masks.

    But, we must believe everybody is out of step except our Tony !

    :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭Mwengwe


    Honestly, this all just sounds like a massive pain, think I'll keep avoiding shops. Fair play for the business-owners for figuring out solutions and safeguards though.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0607/1145968-sligo-retail-reopening/


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    My parents work in a hospital (non-medical role) and public-facing financial role (I'm unemployed, clearly), never once wore a mask or gloves, washed their hands after every transaction and have also never caught it. The same could be said both ways. There's simply not a lot of the virus in the community. Basic hygiene and everyone will be fine.

    Hospitals are very high risk. Were your parents tested, if not could have been asymptomatic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    A useful resource... https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/

    Almost 90% of the world's population lives in countries that recommend or mandate the use of masks in public; more than 75 countries have mandated the use of masks.

    But, we must believe everybody is out of step except our Tony !

    :rolleyes:

    I wear a mask all day long for work, mainly because I'm indoors in close contact with different people coming and going all the time (that and the fact that my boss doesn't know the meaning of personal space let alone social distancing).

    I don't wear one shopping myself but see plenty of people that do. I have bought and made masks here for family using public transport.

    I think they aren't a bad idea for public transport/shops and indoor settings but I don't see the powers that be making them mandatory.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    A useful resource... https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/

    Almost 90% of the world's population lives in countries that recommend or mandate the use of masks in public; more than 75 countries have mandated the use of masks.

    But, we must believe everybody is out of step except our Tony !

    :rolleyes:

    What are other countries like that recommended masks?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    A useful resource... https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/

    Almost 90% of the world's population lives in countries that recommend or mandate the use of masks in public; more than 75 countries have mandated the use of masks.

    But, we must believe everybody is out of step except our Tony !

    :rolleyes:

    Eh, we're one of those countries so I don't know what you're ranting about.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    ShyMets wrote: »
    For your're sanity, I hope so

    Why don't you insult others that are crying out for mask usage as well?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Hospitals are very high risk. Were your parents tested, if not could have been asymptomatic.

    My father is diabetic. If he had it we would know fairly fast. If he didn’t catch it I’m fairly certain the rest of us will be grand.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    My father is diabetic. If he had it we would know fairly fast. If he didn’t catch it I’m fairly certain the rest of us will be grand.

    Pretty sure I read a comment here a couple of weeks ago where a poster knew someone who was diabetic and a smoker and they were asymptomatic. This virus is showing up in so many weird ways. I'm finding it odd though how they work in a high risk environment.

    Edit: found the post I was looking for, a diabetic and they were fine
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058073459/1/#post113278757


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Pretty sure I read a comment here a couple of weeks ago where a poster knew someone who was diabetic and a smoker and they were asymptomatic. This virus is showing up in so many weird ways. I'm finding it odd though how they work in a high risk environment.

    Edit: found the post I was looking for, a diabetic and they were fine
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058073459/1/#post113278757
    If my father had it I'm fairly certain we'd all have it to be honest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Pretty sure I read a comment here a couple of weeks ago where a poster knew someone who was diabetic and a smoker and they were asymptomatic. This virus is showing up in so many weird ways. I'm finding it odd though how they work in a high risk environment.

    I have a daughter and a sister in law working as nurses with Covid patients and neither, thankfully, caught it. You seem obsessed with asymptomatic cases. Look at the positives occasionally , not everybody is carrying it and going to infect you by walking past you.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Here is the full text of the new WHO advice in relation to wearing of masks in public. It's quite clear in terms of what it advises, though I do accept that they are prone to changing their minds a lot, and that boards certified epidemiologists may disagree. (My highlighting of what I considered important)

    Guidance on the use of masks for the general public

    Available evidence

    Studies of influenza, influenza-like illness, and human coronaviruses (not including COVID-19) provide evidence that the use of a medical mask can prevent the spread of infectious droplets from a symptomatic infected person (source control) to someone else and potential contamination of the environment by these droplets.

    There is limited evidence that wearing a medical mask by healthy individuals in households, in particular those who share a house with a sick person, or among attendees of mass gatherings may be beneficial as a measure preventing transmission. A recent meta-analysis of these observational studies, with the intrinsic biases of observational data, showed that either disposable surgical masks or reusable 12–16-layer cotton masks were associated with protection of healthy individuals within households and among contacts of cases.

    This could be considered to be indirect evidence for the use of masks (medical or other) by healthy individuals in the wider community; however, these studies suggest that such individuals would need to be in close proximity to an infected person in a household or at a mass gathering where physical distancing cannot be achieved, to become infected with the virus.

    Results from cluster randomized controlled trials on the use of masks among young adults living in university residences in the United States of America indicate that face masks may reduce the rate of influenza-like illness, but showed no impact on risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza. At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID- 19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.

    WHO regularly monitors all emerging evidence about this important topic and will provide updates as more information becomes available.

    Guidance
    1) WHO recommends that persons with any symptoms suggestive of COVID-19 should:
    • wear a medical mask, self-isolate, and seek medical advice as soon as they start to feel unwell with potential symptoms of COVID-19, even if symptoms are mild. Symptoms can include: fever, cough, fatigue, loss of appetite, shortness of breath and muscle pain. Other non-specific symptoms such as sore throat, nasal congestion, headache, diarrhoea, nausea and vomiting, have also been reported. Loss of smell and taste preceding the onset of respiratory symptoms have also been reported. Older people and immunosuppressed patients may present with atypical symptoms such as fatigue, reduced alertness, reduced mobility, diarrhoea, loss of appetite, delirium, and absence of fever. It is important to note that early symptoms for some people infected with COVID-19 may be very mild and unspecific;
    • follow instructions on how to put on, take off, and dispose of medical masks and perform hand hygiene;
    • follow all additional measures, in particular respiratory hygiene, frequent hand hygiene and maintaining physical distance of at least 1 metre (3.3 feet) from other persons.
    In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is recommended that all persons, regardless of whether they are using masks or not, should:
    • avoid groups of people and crowded spaces (follow local advice);
    • maintain physical distance of at least 1 metre (3.3 feet) from other persons, especially from those with respiratory symptoms (e.g. coughing, sneezing);
    • perform hand hygiene frequently, using an alcohol based hand rub if hands are not visibly dirty or soap and water;
    • use respiratory hygiene i.e. cover their nose and mouth with a bent elbow or paper tissue when
    coughing or sneezing, dispose of the tissue immediately after use, and perform hand hygiene;
    • refrain from touching their mouth, nose, and eyes.


    2) Advice to decision makers on the use of masks for the general public

    Many countries have recommended the use of fabric masks/face coverings for the general public. At the present time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not yet supported by high quality or direct scientific evidence and there are potential benefits and harms to consider (see below).

    However, taking into account the available studies evaluating pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general public in several countries, individual values and preferences, as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of community transmission, governments should encourage the general public to wear masks in specific situations and settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Table 2).

    WHO advises decision makers to apply a risk-based approach focusing on the following criteria when considering orencouraging the use of masks for the general public:

    1. Purpose of mask use: if the intention is preventing the infected wearer transmitting the virus to others (that is, source control) and/or to offer protection to the healthy wearer against infection (that is, prevention) 2. Risk of exposure to the COVID-19 virus - due to epidemiology and intensity of transmission in the population: if there is community transmission and there is limited or no capacity to implement other containment measures such as contact tracing, ability to carry out testing and isolate and care for suspected and confirmed cases; - depending on occupation: e.g., individuals working in close contact with the public (e.g., social workers, personal support workers, cashiers).

    3. Vulnerability of the mask wearer/population: for example, medical masks could be used by older people, immunocompromised patients and people with comorbidities, such as cardiovascular disease or diabetes, mellitus, chronic lung disease, cancer and cerebrovascular disease.

    4. Setting in which the population lives: settings with high population density (e.g. refugee camps, camp-like settings, those living in cramped conditions) and settings where individuals are unable to keep a physical distance of at least 1 metre (3.3 feet) (e.g. public transportation).
    5. Feasibility: availability and costs of masks, access to clean water to wash non-medical masks, and ability of mask wearers to tolerate adverse effects of wearing a mask.

    6. Type of mask: medical mask versus non-medical mask

    Based on these criteria, Table 2 provides practical examples of situations where the general public should be encouraged to wear a mask and it indicates specific target populations and the type of mask to be used according to its purpose. The decision of governments and local jurisdictions whether to recommend or make mandatory the use of masks should be based on the above criteria, and on the local context, culture, availability of masks, resources required, and preferences of the population.

    515602.png

    In my understanding, Ireland is not an area with "widespread transmission" with "no capacity to implement any of the other measures" - but for countries where there IS widespread transmission, then they recommend in shops, at work, mass gatherings, etc. etc. So no advice to wear in shops in Ireland.

    In settings where physical distancing cannot be achieved, they recommend masks on public transportation. So, advice to wear masks on public transport.

    The Government has stated "It is recommenced that face coverings be worn in public places, such as shops, and on public transport" - which combines both situations, which appear to distinguished by WHO. But they have gone further than WHO in recommending both situations.


    Edit - benefits and risks:

    Potential benefits/advantages
    The likely advantages of the use of masks by healthy people
    in the general public include:
    • reduced potential exposure risk from infected persons before they develop symptoms;
    • reduced potential stigmatization of individuals wearing masks to prevent infecting others (source control) or of people caring for COVID-19 patients in non-clinical
    settings;
    • making people feel they can play a role in contributing to stopping spread of the virus;Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19: Interim guidance
    • reminding people to be compliant with other measures (e.g., hand hygiene, not touching nose and mouth).
    However, this can also have the reverse effect (see below);
    • potential social and economic benefits. Amidst the global shortage of surgical masks and PPE, encouraging the public to create their own fabric masks may promote individual enterprise and community integration.
    Moreover, the production of non-medical masks may offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities. Fabric masks can also be a form of cultural expression, encouraging public acceptance of protection measures in general. The safe re-use of fabric masks will also reduce costs and waste and contribute to sustainability.


    Potential harms/disadvantages
    The likely disadvantages of the use of mask by healthy people in the general public include:
    • potential increased risk of self-contamination due to the manipulation of a face mask and subsequently touching eyes with contaminated hands;
    • potential self-contamination that can occur if nonmedical masks are not changed when wet or soiled. This can create favourable conditions for microorganism to amplify;
    • potential headache and/or breathing difficulties, depending on type of mask used;
    • potential development of facial skin lesions, irritant dermatitis or worsening acne, when used frequently for long hours;
    • difficulty with communicating clearly;
    • potential discomfort;(41, 51)
    • a false sense of security, leading to potentially lower adherence to other critical preventive measures such as physical distancing and hand hygiene;
    • poor compliance with mask wearing, in particular by young children;
    • waste management issues; improper mask disposal leading to increased litter in public places, risk of contamination to street cleaners and environment hazard;
    • difficulty communicating for deaf persons who rely on lip reading;
    • disadvantages for or difficulty wearing them, especially for children, developmentally challenged persons, those with mental illness, elderly persons with cognitive impairment, those with asthma or chronic respiratory or breathing problems, those who have had facial trauma or recent oral maxillofacial surgery, and those living in hot and humid environments.

    Full text of WHO document here: https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1279750/retrieve


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    I have a daughter and a sister in law working as nurses with Covid patients and neither, thankfully, caught it. You seem obsessed with asymptomatic cases. Look at the positives occasionally , not everybody is carrying it and going to infect you by walking past you.

    And you're the poster who couldn't back up what you said about a 5% failure in negative tests in the mask thread.

    Last I heard it was 30% failure rate. Can you back up your claim of 5% failure rate? And your story might be more believable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    And you're the poster who couldn't back up what you said about a 5% failure in negative tests in the mask thread.

    Last I heard it was 30% failure rate. Can you back up your claim of 5% failure rate? And your story might be more believable.

    While we're on the topic of stories being believable can you back up with evidence that theres a 30% failure rate in tests ??

    You like to throw stats up that you've heard on facebook so please do provide some scientific evidence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    And you're the poster who couldn't back up what you said about a 5% failure in negative tests in the mask thread.

    Last I heard it was 30% failure rate. Can you back up your claim of 5% failure rate? And your story might be more believable.

    I don't think I've to back up what has been in the media for weeks. Look it up yourself, but ignore Facebook or reports from February or the US.

    But distraction from the points made don't suit your doomsday attitude. False negatives, rampant asymptomatic carriers, widespread refusal to wear masks....it's all negative. How about, good case reductions, acceptable adherence to restrictions and safety advice, R0 levels?

    And, it's no story. I have posted on members of my family working on the front line several times. It doesn't suit your narrative to hear that a nurse didn't contract the virus or that the reliability of tests has improved immensely over the past months, or that your likelihood of catching this virus is greatly reduced if you do as recommended. We don't all need a mandatory order to protect ourselves and those around us.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    While we're on the topic of stories being believable can you back up with evidence that theres a 30% failure rate in tests ??

    You like to throw stats up that you've heard on facebook so please do provide some scientific evidence.

    This was already discussed. You have 17 threads to look through. I don't remember where it was.

    Can anyone back up the new information with a 5% failure rate in tests?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    4th day of cases under 30. With it being 3 weeks after some retrictions being lifted its very good news. Hopefully now Business's, Sports and social events can move forward with the restrictions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    While we're on the topic of stories being believable can you back up with evidence that theres a 30% failure rate in tests ??

    You like to throw stats up that you've heard on facebook so please do provide some scientific evidence.

    They were 30% in February but mostly due to taking the swabs incorrectly That's been sorted but doesn't suit the rhetoric.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    I don't think I've to back up what has been in the media for weeks. Look it up yourself, but ignore Facebook or reports from February or the US.

    But distraction from the points made don't suit your doomsday attitude. False negatives, rampant asymptomatic carriers, widespread refusal to wear masks....it's all negative. How about, good case reductions, acceptable adherence to restrictions and safety advice, R0 levels?

    And, it's no story. I have posted on members of my family working on the front line several times. It doesn't suit your narrative to hear that a nurse didn't contract the virus or that the reliability of tests has improved immensely over the past months, or that your likelihood of catching this virus is greatly reduced if you do as recommended. We don't all need a mandatory order to protect ourselves and those around us.

    Likewise I've a family member who's a nurse in a Dublin hosptial and I posted here last week that 1 of the nurses she works with tested positive, so all the nurses including my family member had to go into self isolation at home, 5 of them negative on the first tests, tested again over the weekend, all negative again. All of the nurses who were close contacts back to work this coming week. All would have worked in close proximity to the postive nurse for hours and had lunch together in close proximity.

    But sure look this post and yours doesn't suit the narrative that theres rampant asymptomatic carriers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    They were 30% in February but mostly due to taking the swabs incorrectly That's been sorted but doesn't suit the rhetoric.

    Exactly February, its June now and yet news from February is still portrayed now as currently being fact.

    It was on Facebook it must be true


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »
    I don't think I've to back up what has been in the media for weeks. Look it up yourself, but ignore Facebook or reports from February or the US.

    But distraction from the points made don't suit your doomsday attitude. False negatives, rampant asymptomatic carriers, widespread refusal to wear masks....it's all negative. How about, good case reductions, acceptable adherence to restrictions and safety advice, R0 levels?

    And, it's no story. I have posted on members of my family working on the front line several times. It doesn't suit your narrative to hear that a nurse didn't contract the virus or that the reliability of tests has improved immensely over the past months, or that your likelihood of catching this virus is greatly reduced if you do as recommended. We don't all need a mandatory order to protect ourselves and those around us.

    A 5% failure rate is good news, it's better than 30. People love the positivity here, so I'm surprised it wasn't posted here.

    I'm not finding anything by doing a Google search. So can you direct me to your claim of 5% failure rate in tests?


This discussion has been closed.
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