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Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

  • 07-06-2020 5:40pm
    #1
    SharpshooterTom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭


    https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

    Edward Colston got rich off transporting 84,000 African men, women and children to the Caribbean, 19,000 of whom died on route. His statue was taken down today in Bristol by protesters and later thrown in the river.

    https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128

    The British are facing the prospect of facing a overdue reckoning with their colonial past and how they celebrate it going forward, as are many other European ex colonial superpowers, France, Spain, Holland, Belgium etc. The minority population is rapidly growing in these countries, approaching 20% in the UK, and many British ethnic minorities find having statue's glorifying figures and relic's of the British empire deeply offensive.

    Bristol has a lot of history associated with the British colonialism, lots of buildings and streets named after people with connections to the slave trade, with a growing diverse population Bristol has a bit of reckoning to do going forward.

    Yesterday Churchill's statue was defaced, there are now calls for Nelson's statue to be taken down. I'm still surprised Cromwell's statue still stands in Cambridgeshire given he was a brutal mass murderer and tyrant.


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Comments

  • #2
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.


  • #3
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    How dare they

    image_update_5297cc593ff60dca_1349288977_9j-4aaqsk.jpeg


  • #4
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    This fella thinks this could be the beginning of something that the British don't really do ...a revolution.

    Also, he mentions parallels to the Arab Spring movement from some years ago.



    Something that has surprised me, is that despite the coronavirus and the restrictions, this black lives matter movement is drawing thousands into the streets.

    25.000 in Munich yesterday ...a town not exactly famous for left-wing street protests, rather the opposite.
    15.000 in Berlin, 14.000 in Hamburg

    Thousands in more or less provincial backwaters in Germany like Flensburg, Göttingen, Bonn, Magdeburg.

    I don't know what happened in other European countries (I can't read French, Spanish, Italian or any other European language)


    But it seems to me that we could indeed see the beginning of some sort of people's movement here ..initially triggered by the events in the US, but it might be interesting to see where it goes this side of the pond.


  • #5
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

    its literally fascism.


  • #6
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

    Edward Colston got rich off transporting (..................)mass murderer and tyrant.


    As with the confederate stuff over in the US, it should be taken down and kept in a park, with various signs and the like explaining their context and time.


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  • #7
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

    Always wary of people destroying monuments. It's bit like trying to remove history. Then again who would complain when Eastern Europeans tore down the monuments to Stalin or when Iraqis blew up the shrines to Saddam.

    But like our own Sean Russell monument. Should it stay or should it go?

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • #8
    Slim Charles
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Slim Charles


    ThomasFlynn wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

    Edward Colston got rich off transporting 84,000 African men, women and children to the Caribbean, 19,000 of whom died on route. His statue was taken down today in Bristol by protesters and later thrown in the river.

    https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128

    The British are facing the prospect of facing a overdue reckoning with their colonial past and how they celebrate it going forward, as are many other European ex colonial superpowers, France, Spain, Holland, Belgium etc. The minority population is rapidly growing in these countries, approaching 20% in the UK, and many British ethnic minorities find having statue's glorifying figures and relic's of the British empire deeply offensive.

    Bristol has a lot of history associated with the British colonialism, lots of buildings and streets named after people with connections to the slave trade, with a growing diverse population Bristol has a bit of reckoning to do going forward.

    Yesterday Churchill's statue was defaced, there are now calls for Nelson's statue to be taken down. I'm still surprised Cromwell's statue still stands in Cambridgeshire given he was a brutal mass murderer and tyrant.








    So it's ok to do whatever you like, once you're offended. I'm offended by them tearing down statues and throwing them into rivers - is it ok if I ransack local businesses' now ?


  • #9
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    The destruction of historical monuments and memorials has historical precendence, the most resonant that of the Chinese Cultural revolution. Mob rule, directed by the enlightened upper party echelons, was used as a means to wipe the historical slate clean by removing any hint there were alternative viewpoints / historical prespectives. prior reaching the exaulted state of today. Today's actions echo this.

    An alliance of progressive academics using narriatively loaded phrases such as "Decolonise the past" provides the excuse with progressive allies/useful idiots to act as a secular Taliban, destroying the past to control the political present.


  • #10
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,155 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    saw this about Glasgow a few days ago, a lot of that city was built off the back of slavery, not sure what statues they have around the place

    twitter.com/bbctwo/status/1233342444332363776?


  • #11
    mcbert
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭mcbert


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its literally fascism.


    Literally?? OK, if you say so...


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  • #12
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Bristol council have been petitioned to move the statue to a museum or to put an educational plaque beside it. They have refused. It may not make tearing it down the right thing to do, but when people feel that they aren't being listened to, sometimes they take more extreme measures.


  • #13
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,197 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Manach wrote: »
    The destruction of historical monuments and memorials has historical precendence, the most resonant that of the Chinese Cultural revolution. Mob rule, directed by the enlightened upper party echelons, was used as a means to wipe the historical slate clean by removing any hint there were alternative viewpoints / historical prespectives. prior reaching the exaulted state of today. Today's actions echo this.

    An alliance of progressive academics using narriatively loaded phrases such as "Decolonise the past" provides the excuse with progressive allies/useful idiots to act as a secular Taliban, destroying the past to control the political present.

    He who controls the past controls the future, He who controls the present controls the past.

    -Orwell

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • #14
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,764 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its literally fascism.

    It really isnt ffs

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #15
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its literally fascism.

    It literally isn't


  • #16
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    Always wary of people destroying monuments. It's bit like trying to remove history. Then again who would complain when Eastern Europeans tore down the monuments to Stalin or when Iraqis blew up the shrines to Saddam.

    But like our own Sean Russell monument. Should it stay or should it go?
    Mary Lou is organising a round the clock patrol to protect the statue of her hero


  • #17
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    White washing history is wrong...statues of people who achieved great things during their life's that were erected in good faith should still stand...

    Churchill hated the Irish, I have no problem with his statue because his attitudes towards the Irish are acknowledged to be unacceptable in today's world. But during this time he was also the Prime Minister of Britain and they played a role in the destruction of Nazi Germany...

    It's like the nonsense of going back through famous peoples Twitter to find dirt to throw at them

    Did the same with Franco's body in Spain...and it's only helped the right gain more support


  • #18
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    its literally fascism.

    LOL. Easiest form of fascism to live with that I've ever heard of.

    I looked up this guys Wikipedia page and he did a lot of good for Bristol by setting up hospitals and almshouses. But he was also head of the Africa Trading Company which transported 85,000 slaves under his leadership. Neither of those things can be forgotten.

    I'm actually pretty comfortable with him being a historical figure but statues in his honour should be taken down, stored and recorded as part of the history (good and bad)

    I don't blame the BLM for taking matters into their own hands. Mate from Bristol said it has been a contentious issue for decades so it's not a new problem. It es are changing. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with the change. The statues are gone now and they should be gone anyway.


  • #19
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    One of the problems with applauding the take down of statues in Britain ( and on its own this one is justified although preferably it would a legal process) is that it will spread everywhere. I dont think we are too far away from someone taking a sledge hammer to de Valera or some other Irish patriot or historical political leader. Nobody is perfect. O'Connell did oppose slavery but I am sure we can take a sledgehammer to his statue because he isnt quite as woke as 2020. Maybe he was transphobic. Maybe he said something homophobic at one stage. Possibly some mysogony? Im sure something can be found and off with his marble head.

    The war against all white history is accelerating and the Irish woke wont be left behind. To be fair we de-colonised a lot of out statues already so thats all that is left, our own leaders.


  • #20
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Edgware wrote: »
    Mary Lou is organising a round the clock patrol to protect the statue of her hero

    I am sure modern Sinn Fein would be happy to see it go. Some of their younger members might lead the charge.


  • #21
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    The parallels with ISIS here are ridiculous. ISIS destroyed ancient monuments because they weren't Muslim. The protestors today tore down the statue because he made his money from trading slaves. Honestly, who wants to celebrate slave trading?


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  • #22
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    White washing history is wrong...statues of people who achieved great things during their life's that were erected in good faith should still stand...

    The history should be recorded but that doesn't mean the statues should still stand. Statues can be moved and kept in storage as they're interesting artifacts of history. It doesn't mean they have to be melted down and made into BLM badges but we're free to do whatever we want and I think it's fine to remomove those statues.

    There's no grave consequence for removing the statues, recording the history and putting up new statues to celebrate new heros. And maybe those new heros will be removed in time and replaces with, as yet unborn, future heros.


  • #23
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,960 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    muddypaws wrote: »
    Bristol council have been petitioned to move the statue to a museum or to put an educational plaque beside it. They have refused. It may not make tearing it down the right thing to do, but when people feel that they aren't being listened to, sometimes they take more extreme measures.

    Indeed, there was a black academic on the BBC today saying people had been campaigning for years to have the statue moved to a museum or have a plaque attached explaining who Colston was, but they were completely ignored by the powers that be.


  • #24
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭screamer


    Yep, easier to destroy the past than influence the future I suppose. It all smacks of fakery being honest.


  • #25
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    FVP3 wrote: »
    I am sure modern Sinn Fein would be happy to see it go. Some of their younger members might lead the charge.

    The younger members will do what they are told


  • #26
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    peasant wrote: »
    Something that has surprised me, is that despite the coronavirus and the restrictions, this black lives matter movement is drawing thousands into the streets.

    But it seems to me that we could indeed see the beginning of some sort of people's movement here ..initially triggered by the events in the US, but it might be interesting to see where it goes this side of the pond.

    Nothing is going on outside northern europe, it depends on the amount of influence the US has. Spain's national day still remains the day Colombus day.

    Not a bother on them.


  • #27
    Ray Donovan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Ray Donovan


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    The history should be recorded but that doesn't mean the statues should still stand. Statues can be moved and kept in storage as they're interesting artifacts of history. It doesn't mean they have to be melted down and made into BLM badges but we're free to do whatever we want and I think it's fine to remomove those statues.

    There's no grave consequence for removing the statues, recording the history and putting up new statues to celebrate new heros. And maybe those new heros will be removed in time and replaces with, as yet unborn, future heros.

    I propose a statue to the first person who can spell the plural of hero correctly!


  • #28
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,109 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

    That's a good analogy. ISIL and the Taliban are well known slavers.


  • #29
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Edgware wrote: »
    The younger members will do what they are told

    The younger members run the joint as far as I can see. The Indo keeps trying to scare us with the idea that behind their democratic facade lies a group of fascists, but given Sinn Fein's position on literally everything they are clearly far to the left on social issues and on immigration etc.

    As for the Russell statue, it should probably go.


  • #30
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    its odd taking down the statues but keeping the wealth isn't it? We know who the slave owners were, they were all compensated. Why not get some reparations from them?


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  • #31
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Indeed, there was a black academic on the BBC today saying people had been campaigning for years to have the statue moved to a museum or have a plaque attached explaining who Colston was, but they were completely ignored by the powers that be.

    I'd bet if you went to a 'save the Colston statues' meeting, you'd meet some thick fcukers.

    Not everything in history needs a statue to be remembered. He can be remembered in history, for all that he did both good and bad. But the statues should go and the schools, hospitals, streets and concert halls named after him, should be renamed.


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