Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

SharpshooterTom · 07-06-2020 5:40pm #1

https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

Edward Colston got rich off transporting 84,000 African men, women and children to the Caribbean, 19,000 of whom died on route. His statue was taken down today in Bristol by protesters and later thrown in the river.

https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128

The British are facing the prospect of facing a overdue reckoning with their colonial past and how they celebrate it going forward, as are many other European ex colonial superpowers, France, Spain, Holland, Belgium etc. The minority population is rapidly growing in these countries, approaching 20% in the UK, and many British ethnic minorities find having statue's glorifying figures and relic's of the British empire deeply offensive.

Bristol has a lot of history associated with the British colonialism, lots of buildings and streets named after people with connections to the slave trade, with a growing diverse population Bristol has a bit of reckoning to do going forward.

Yesterday Churchill's statue was defaced, there are now calls for Nelson's statue to be taken down. I'm still surprised Cromwell's statue still stands in Cambridgeshire given he was a brutal mass murderer and tyrant.

Yamanoto · 07-06-2020 6:06pm

The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

RasTa · 07-06-2020 6:10pm

How dare they

peasant · 07-06-2020 6:12pm

This fella thinks this could be the beginning of something that the British don't really do ...a revolution.

Also, he mentions parallels to the Arab Spring movement from some years ago.

Something that has surprised me, is that despite the coronavirus and the restrictions, this black lives matter movement is drawing thousands into the streets.

25.000 in Munich yesterday ...a town not exactly famous for left-wing street protests, rather the opposite.
15.000 in Berlin, 14.000 in Hamburg

Thousands in more or less provincial backwaters in Germany like Flensburg, Göttingen, Bonn, Magdeburg.

I don't know what happened in other European countries (I can't read French, Spanish, Italian or any other European language)

But it seems to me that we could indeed see the beginning of some sort of people's movement here ..initially triggered by the events in the US, but it might be interesting to see where it goes this side of the pond.

Eric Cartman · 07-06-2020 6:15pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

its literally fascism.

Odhinn · 07-06-2020 6:16pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

Edward Colston got rich off transporting (..................)mass murderer and tyrant.

As with the confederate stuff over in the US, it should be taken down and kept in a park, with various signs and the like explaining their context and time.

TheValeyard · 07-06-2020 6:17pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

Always wary of people destroying monuments. It's bit like trying to remove history. Then again who would complain when Eastern Europeans tore down the monuments to Stalin or when Iraqis blew up the shrines to Saddam.

But like our own Sean Russell monument. Should it stay or should it go?

Slim Charles · 07-06-2020 6:18pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269633662787694592

Edward Colston got rich off transporting 84,000 African men, women and children to the Caribbean, 19,000 of whom died on route. His statue was taken down today in Bristol by protesters and later thrown in the river.

https://twitter.com/bbcrb/status/1269644536281776128

The British are facing the prospect of facing a overdue reckoning with their colonial past and how they celebrate it going forward, as are many other European ex colonial superpowers, France, Spain, Holland, Belgium etc. The minority population is rapidly growing in these countries, approaching 20% in the UK, and many British ethnic minorities find having statue's glorifying figures and relic's of the British empire deeply offensive.

Bristol has a lot of history associated with the British colonialism, lots of buildings and streets named after people with connections to the slave trade, with a growing diverse population Bristol has a bit of reckoning to do going forward.

Yesterday Churchill's statue was defaced, there are now calls for Nelson's statue to be taken down. I'm still surprised Cromwell's statue still stands in Cambridgeshire given he was a brutal mass murderer and tyrant.

So it's ok to do whatever you like, once you're offended. I'm offended by them tearing down statues and throwing them into rivers - is it ok if I ransack local businesses' now ?

Manach · 07-06-2020 6:22pm

The destruction of historical monuments and memorials has historical precendence, the most resonant that of the Chinese Cultural revolution. Mob rule, directed by the enlightened upper party echelons, was used as a means to wipe the historical slate clean by removing any hint there were alternative viewpoints / historical prespectives. prior reaching the exaulted state of today. Today's actions echo this.

An alliance of progressive academics using narriatively loaded phrases such as "Decolonise the past" provides the excuse with progressive allies/useful idiots to act as a secular Taliban, destroying the past to control the political present.

Quantum Erasure · 07-06-2020 6:22pm

saw this about Glasgow a few days ago, a lot of that city was built off the back of slavery, not sure what statues they have around the place

twitter.com/bbctwo/status/1233342444332363776?

mcbert · 07-06-2020 6:23pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its literally fascism.

Literally?? OK, if you say so...

muddypaws · 07-06-2020 6:23pm

Bristol council have been petitioned to move the statue to a museum or to put an educational plaque beside it. They have refused. It may not make tearing it down the right thing to do, but when people feel that they aren't being listened to, sometimes they take more extreme measures.

TheValeyard · 07-06-2020 6:23pm

Manach wrote: »

The destruction of historical monuments and memorials has historical precendence, the most resonant that of the Chinese Cultural revolution. Mob rule, directed by the enlightened upper party echelons, was used as a means to wipe the historical slate clean by removing any hint there were alternative viewpoints / historical prespectives. prior reaching the exaulted state of today. Today's actions echo this.

An alliance of progressive academics using narriatively loaded phrases such as "Decolonise the past" provides the excuse with progressive allies/useful idiots to act as a secular Taliban, destroying the past to control the political present.

He who controls the past controls the future, He who controls the present controls the past.

-Orwell

Annasopra · 07-06-2020 6:24pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its literally fascism.

It really isnt ffs

alchemist33 · 07-06-2020 6:26pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its literally fascism.

It literally isn't

Edgware · 07-06-2020 6:32pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Always wary of people destroying monuments. It's bit like trying to remove history. Then again who would complain when Eastern Europeans tore down the monuments to Stalin or when Iraqis blew up the shrines to Saddam.

But like our own Sean Russell monument. Should it stay or should it go?

Mary Lou is organising a round the clock patrol to protect the statue of her hero

c.p.w.g.w · 07-06-2020 6:33pm

White washing history is wrong...statues of people who achieved great things during their life's that were erected in good faith should still stand...

Churchill hated the Irish, I have no problem with his statue because his attitudes towards the Irish are acknowledged to be unacceptable in today's world. But during this time he was also the Prime Minister of Britain and they played a role in the destruction of Nazi Germany...

It's like the nonsense of going back through famous peoples Twitter to find dirt to throw at them

Did the same with Franco's body in Spain...and it's only helped the right gain more support

El_Duderino 09 · 07-06-2020 6:35pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its literally fascism.

LOL. Easiest form of fascism to live with that I've ever heard of.

I looked up this guys Wikipedia page and he did a lot of good for Bristol by setting up hospitals and almshouses. But he was also head of the Africa Trading Company which transported 85,000 slaves under his leadership. Neither of those things can be forgotten.

I'm actually pretty comfortable with him being a historical figure but statues in his honour should be taken down, stored and recorded as part of the history (good and bad)

I don't blame the BLM for taking matters into their own hands. Mate from Bristol said it has been a contentious issue for decades so it's not a new problem. It es are changing. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with the change. The statues are gone now and they should be gone anyway.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 6:38pm

One of the problems with applauding the take down of statues in Britain ( and on its own this one is justified although preferably it would a legal process) is that it will spread everywhere. I dont think we are too far away from someone taking a sledge hammer to de Valera or some other Irish patriot or historical political leader. Nobody is perfect. O'Connell did oppose slavery but I am sure we can take a sledgehammer to his statue because he isnt quite as woke as 2020. Maybe he was transphobic. Maybe he said something homophobic at one stage. Possibly some mysogony? Im sure something can be found and off with his marble head.

The war against all white history is accelerating and the Irish woke wont be left behind. To be fair we de-colonised a lot of out statues already so thats all that is left, our own leaders.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 6:39pm

Edgware wrote: »

Mary Lou is organising a round the clock patrol to protect the statue of her hero

I am sure modern Sinn Fein would be happy to see it go. Some of their younger members might lead the charge.

alchemist33 · 07-06-2020 6:39pm

The parallels with ISIS here are ridiculous. ISIS destroyed ancient monuments because they weren't Muslim. The protestors today tore down the statue because he made his money from trading slaves. Honestly, who wants to celebrate slave trading?

El_Duderino 09 · 07-06-2020 6:40pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

White washing history is wrong...statues of people who achieved great things during their life's that were erected in good faith should still stand...

The history should be recorded but that doesn't mean the statues should still stand. Statues can be moved and kept in storage as they're interesting artifacts of history. It doesn't mean they have to be melted down and made into BLM badges but we're free to do whatever we want and I think it's fine to remomove those statues.

There's no grave consequence for removing the statues, recording the history and putting up new statues to celebrate new heros. And maybe those new heros will be removed in time and replaces with, as yet unborn, future heros.

Strazdas · 07-06-2020 6:41pm

muddypaws wrote: »

Bristol council have been petitioned to move the statue to a museum or to put an educational plaque beside it. They have refused. It may not make tearing it down the right thing to do, but when people feel that they aren't being listened to, sometimes they take more extreme measures.

Indeed, there was a black academic on the BBC today saying people had been campaigning for years to have the statue moved to a museum or have a plaque attached explaining who Colston was, but they were completely ignored by the powers that be.

screamer · 07-06-2020 6:42pm

Yep, easier to destroy the past than influence the future I suppose. It all smacks of fakery being honest.

Edgware · 07-06-2020 6:43pm

FVP3 wrote: »

I am sure modern Sinn Fein would be happy to see it go. Some of their younger members might lead the charge.

The younger members will do what they are told

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 6:44pm

peasant wrote: »

Something that has surprised me, is that despite the coronavirus and the restrictions, this black lives matter movement is drawing thousands into the streets.

But it seems to me that we could indeed see the beginning of some sort of people's movement here ..initially triggered by the events in the US, but it might be interesting to see where it goes this side of the pond.

Nothing is going on outside northern europe, it depends on the amount of influence the US has. Spain's national day still remains the day Colombus day.

Not a bother on them.

Ray Donovan · 07-06-2020 6:44pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The history should be recorded but that doesn't mean the statues should still stand. Statues can be moved and kept in storage as they're interesting artifacts of history. It doesn't mean they have to be melted down and made into BLM badges but we're free to do whatever we want and I think it's fine to remomove those statues.

There's no grave consequence for removing the statues, recording the history and putting up new statues to celebrate new heros. And maybe those new heros will be removed in time and replaces with, as yet unborn, future heros.

I propose a statue to the first person who can spell the plural of hero correctly!

Pherekydes · 07-06-2020 6:46pm

Yamanoto wrote: »

The mindset has absolute echoes of both ISIL & the Taliban - it offends our sensibilities, no discussion, we know best.

That's a good analogy. ISIL and the Taliban are well known slavers.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 6:47pm

Edgware wrote: »

The younger members will do what they are told

The younger members run the joint as far as I can see. The Indo keeps trying to scare us with the idea that behind their democratic facade lies a group of fascists, but given Sinn Fein's position on literally everything they are clearly far to the left on social issues and on immigration etc.

As for the Russell statue, it should probably go.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 6:50pm

its odd taking down the statues but keeping the wealth isn't it? We know who the slave owners were, they were all compensated. Why not get some reparations from them?

El_Duderino 09 · 07-06-2020 6:51pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Indeed, there was a black academic on the BBC today saying people had been campaigning for years to have the statue moved to a museum or have a plaque attached explaining who Colston was, but they were completely ignored by the powers that be.

I'd bet if you went to a 'save the Colston statues' meeting, you'd meet some thick fcukers.

Not everything in history needs a statue to be remembered. He can be remembered in history, for all that he did both good and bad. But the statues should go and the schools, hospitals, streets and concert halls named after him, should be renamed.

AllGunsBlazing · 07-06-2020 6:53pm

The telly must be all re-runs for it to have gotten this far.

El_Duderino 09 · 07-06-2020 6:54pm

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I propose a statue to the first person who can spell the plural of hero correctly!

Now the real question is, should I leave the mistake there for ever or should I edit it to the correct spelling?...

Quantum Erasure · 07-06-2020 6:55pm

Odhinn wrote: »

As with the confederate stuff over in the US, it should be taken down and kept in a park, with various signs and the like explaining their context and time.

like Memento Park in Budapest, where they moved all the statues of Lenin, Marx etc. from Hungary's communist era

listermint · 07-06-2020 6:55pm

Statues are quite literally Idols.

That is their purpose, it's why people commission them of themselves.

What I find utterly hilarious is the veneration here of an individual that would have bought and sold any Irish person he could if it made him a pound.

Yes he belongs in the history books as an example. But he doesn't require idolisation in public spaces looking down over everyone. Stick him in the back of the slave traders museum in Liverpool. A big example of what an excuse my french see you next Tuesday..

Quantum Erasure · 07-06-2020 6:57pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But the statues should go and the schools, hospitals, streets and concert halls named after him, should be renamed.

that's going a bit far now...

Edgware · 07-06-2020 6:57pm

FVP3 wrote: »

The younger members run the joint as far as I can see. The Indo keeps trying to scare us with the idea that behind their democratic facade lies a group of fascists, but given Sinn Fein's position on literally everything they are clearly far to the left on social issues and on immigration etc.

As for the Russell statue, it should probably go.

So don't bother about all the other names on the memorial

Edgware · 07-06-2020 6:59pm

listermint wrote: »

Statues are quite literally Idols.

That is their purpose, it's why people commission them of themselves.

What I find utterly hilarious is the veneration here of an individual that would have bought and sold any Irish person he could if it made him a pound.

Yes he belongs in the history books as an example. But he doesn't require idolisation in public spaces looking down over everyone. Stick him in the back of the slave traders museum in Liverpool. A big example of what an excuse my french see you next Tuesday..

Let's tear down the John Mitchell statue in Newry. He was a slave owner in the U.S.

Quantum Erasure · 07-06-2020 7:01pm

FVP3 wrote: »

its odd taking down the statues but keeping the wealth isn't it? We know who the slave owners were, they were all compensated. Why not get some reparations from them?

tear down the buildings, everyone in Jamaica gets a brick

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 7:02pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd bet if you went to a 'save the Colston statues' meeting, you'd meet some thick fcukers.

Not everything in history needs a statue to be remembered. He can be remembered in history, for all that he did both good and bad. But the statues should go and the schools, hospitals, streets and concert halls named after him, should be renamed.

Well that is correct. Statues ( in public) venerate people, while museums explain people and history. However there are two problems

1) Leaving it to a mob is not any way to do this. Some person somewhere may not like your favourite statue.
2) If you do leave it to the mob pretty much nothing is left. Very few UK historical figures, apart from a few scientists and poets, would survive much scrutiny. Even some of the writers and scientists might not.

Quantum Erasure · 07-06-2020 7:04pm

any statues to JK Rowling knocking around?

SharpshooterTom · 07-06-2020 7:04pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

White washing history is wrong...statues of people who achieved great things during their life's that were erected in good faith should still stand...

Churchill hated the Irish, I have no problem with his statue because his attitudes towards the Irish are acknowledged to be unacceptable in today's world. But during this time he was also the Prime Minister of Britain and they played a role in the destruction of Nazi Germany...

It's like the nonsense of going back through famous peoples Twitter to find dirt to throw at them

Did the same with Franco's body in Spain...and it's only helped the right gain more support

Churchill actually has mixed views on Ireland, he sympathised with a united Ireland and when he spoke to Irish ambassador John W Delanty he was quoted as saying in 1946

Churchill reportedly told Dulanty: “I said a few words in parliament the other day about your country because I still hope for a united Ireland. You must get those fellows in the North in, though; you can’t do it by force.”

Churchill added: “There is not, and never was, any bitterness in my heart towards your country.”

Later, in May 1951, Churchill had another conversation about Ireland with Frederick Boland, who had succeeded Dulanty as ambassador. The two met at a Buckingham Palace reception where Churchill told him he had wanted to come to Ireland to see a horse of his run in the Irish Derby, but the horse had died.

Churchill said: “I’m sorry. I would have liked to have gone over and I’m sure the people would have given me a good reception – particularly if my horse had won. The Irish are a sporting people."

“You know I have had many invitations to visit Ulster, but I have refused them all. I don’t want to go there at all, I would much rather go to southern Ireland. Maybe I’ll buy another horse with an entry in the Irish Derby.”

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/winston-churchill-united-ireland

Das Reich · 07-06-2020 7:04pm

Funny thing is that descendants of slaves also are the descandants of the slave owners. And African people that were not sent to American continent have also some guilty (they sold slaves to Arabs and Europeans).

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 7:06pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

tear down the buildings, everyone in Jamaica gets a brick

Could keep the buildings though. 46,000 people were compensated in Britain, only 800 or so here if I recall correctly.

joe40 · 07-06-2020 7:06pm

Fun fact, the guy who wrote the well known hymn "amazing grace" was a slave trader.
He converted to religion after a bad storm but continued slave trading.

Not condoning anything, I don't care what the time any human being should have known slavery was vile

whisky_galore · 07-06-2020 7:06pm

FVP3 wrote: »

The younger members run the joint as far as I can see. The Indo keeps trying to scare us with the idea that behind their democratic facade lies a group of fascists, but given Sinn Fein's position on literally everything they are clearly far to the left on social issues and on immigration etc.

As for the Russell statue, it should probably go.

Leave it there as an embarrassment to pub republicans and a reminder how the RA flirted with Nazis.
It looks terrible, poor effort at a statue it's like it's made of concrete.

whisky_galore · 07-06-2020 7:09pm

Edgware wrote: »

Let's tear down the John Mitchell statue in Newry. He was a slave owner in the U.S.

So was George Washington, father of the nation.
Bet there's thousands of statues and things named after him. Get cracking lads.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 7:11pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

like Memento Park in Budapest, where they moved all the statues of Lenin, Marx etc. from Hungary's communist era

I was there. I felt a bit sorry for the communist transport minister of Budapest 1945-1970 or so. I felt he did a bang up job.

Odhinn · 07-06-2020 7:14pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

like Memento Park in Budapest, where they moved all the statues of Lenin, Marx etc. from Hungary's communist era

Ex fuckin zactly.

FVP3 · 07-06-2020 7:18pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

So was George Washington, father of the nation.
Bet there's thousands of statues and things named after him. Get cracking lads.

Yeh, a lot of the confederate bashing was merely the history of the victors. Not that those statues ( most added in or post Jim Crow) shouldn't have gone, but what about the clear racists and slave owners who were US, and not confederate, patriots? Keeping Jefferson's memorial are we? Oh the capital and a State is named after a slave owner? Oh is the name of your foremost military academy still the name of a pox spreading war criminal?

Great.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-06-2020 7:19pm

The notion that young people in the west today are somehow being 'oppressed' is too absurd to entertain.

No generation has had more opportunities and everything handed to them in history.

All seems a bit demented really, like there is a serious lack of perspective.

Slave Trader Edward Colston's statue torn down in Bristol

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