Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Edgware · 02-06-2020 05:59PM

aido79 wrote: »

I don't think there's a hope in hell of her doing it. Sinn Fein supporters think it's just a matter of them running more candidates next time just because some of their candidates including Mary Lou McDonald had big surpluses last time.

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

JohnnyFlash · 02-06-2020 06:07PM

Edgware wrote: »

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

Trying to get two quotas in some constituencies is a dark art. Even Frank Flannery struggled with it at times, and he was a master in dividing up a constituency to maximise the number of FG seats. You need the hop of the ball on the day as well.

aido79 · 02-06-2020 06:40PM

Edgware wrote: »

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

They'd have a lot of work to do to get the other 8000 or so votes needed for a second seat in Cork south central too.
I honestly think Sinn Fein have maxed out on the number of seats they will ever get and have blown their chance of forming a government but time will tell I suppose.

Edgware · 02-06-2020 07:01PM

aido79 wrote: »

They'd have a lot of work to do to get the other 8000 or so votes needed for a second seat in Cork south central too.
I honestly think Sinn Fein have maxed out on the number of seats they will ever get and have blown their chance of forming a government but time will tell I suppose.

I do think that if FG or the Greens pull the plug FF will tell Martin to deal with SF or get off the stage. There's five or six Shinners that would be as good Ministers as there is in the other parties. Any coalition is all about compromise and acceptance. FF would realise that the SF Dublin wing would have to keep the North on side with a bit of the "Up the Ra" stuff and likewise SF know that they would have to give concessions to FF.
As both parties did a lot of the GFA negotiations they know how to play the game

Mortelaro · 02-06-2020 07:37PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FG supporters think that people cant see what the party has done before election (give out about SF) They got worst result in years yet they still continue to do so

This is the Sinn Féin thread
What do you expect to be brought up on it only analysis of Sinn Féin

Your biggest disappointment going forward might arise out of thinking the majority of the Irish electorate is left wing
It isn't
Just as it isn't right wing
Its centre
Various players right and left of that centre tug it there
SF will eventually be in government in the Republic if they want to
Not with my help though as long as they want rid of the Special criminal court or want to harm Foreign direct investment here or dilute people's incentives to work hard for reward

dundalkfc10 · 02-06-2020 08:06PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

This is the Sinn Féin thread
What do you expect to be brought up on it only analysis of Sinn Féin

Your biggest disappointment going forward might arise out of thinking the majority of the Irish electorate is left wing
It isn't
Just as it isn't right wing
Its centre
Various players right and left of that centre tug it there
SF will eventually be in government in the Republic if they want to
Not with my help though as long as they want rid of the Special criminal court or want to harm Foreign direct investment here or dilute people's incentives to work hard for reward

Thats what FG have done to every young person in the country

Mortelaro · 02-06-2020 09:35PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Thats what FG have done to every young person in the country

Now that is nonsense

James Brown · 02-06-2020 09:37PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

According to Simon,double the amount of homeless children in the north versus the south and we are 3 times their population, making the North 6 times worse :eek:
Why compare? Because housing is a devolved power in the north

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

Mortelaro · 02-06-2020 10:18PM

Bowie wrote: »

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

This is the Sinn Féin thread
SF have no say in Northern Ireland now,I see...

Pull the other one

Bishop of hope · 02-06-2020 10:35PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

This is the Sinn Féin thread
SF have no say in Northern Ireland now,I see...

Pull the other one

It's the tories you know, the British ones up there, the Irish ones down here.

TheCitizen · 03-06-2020 12:09AM

I see this thread hasn't gone anywhere, bar same old FFG fanboys on here attacking SF infinitum.

John McGuinness on Virgin Media tonight is saying there should be a National government. He's also saying bar the possibility of a National Government that FG are basically acting the bollocks and will pull out on this negotiations at the end.

Let them pull out and instead FF do a deal with SF and The Greens (as Micheal Martin mooted when the results were initially coming out after the election but he then changed tack when SF turned out to be only 1 seat behind FF).

I know McGuinness is a bit of a maverick but I don't think he's wrong about FG's bona fides on this government formation effort.

If FG want out, let them get to fúck out of the way and let FF and SF and others take over.

markodaly · 03-06-2020 04:50AM

TheCitizen wrote: »

If FG want out, let them get to fúck out of the way and let FF and SF and others take over.

There is absolutely nothing FG is doing to stop FF talking to SF, nothing, nada, zero...

FF can talk to SF now if they want to. In fact, there is nothing FG can do to stop the other 135 non-FG TD's from forming whatever government they wish.

The way some people go on, its as if FG is acting in some nefarious authoritarianism fashion.

Bishop of hope · 03-06-2020 07:44AM

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

blanch152 · 03-06-2020 08:55AM

Bowie wrote: »

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

I think it is a very instructive point, it gives us a chance to assess how Sinn Fein might perform if given the chance to be in government.

The abysmal performance of Sinn Fein in government in Northern Ireland should serve as a wake-up call to voters down here.

03-06-2020 09:06AM

MLD getting a lot of stick online from pro-choice groups and SF getting some praise from the DUP of all people. Will be interesting to see how she deals with it. Not so much of an all Ireland party yesterday.

Mortelaro · 03-06-2020 09:30AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's the tories you know, the British ones up there, the Irish ones down here.

Perhaps they should make Eoin o Broin housing minister in northern Ireland

markodaly · 03-06-2020 10:11AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

Very pie in the sky, they are basically saying if you have free land, no middle management, no finance costs and developers work for free, then you can have these cheap houses.

I can see all the developers queueing up already. :P

IAmTheReign · 03-06-2020 10:12AM

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

Where are the details of the plan available? There's no link on the article and I couldn't find anything on the SF website. I'd like to see mrore details.

From what little is in the article a couple of things stands out though. Who decided 230,000 is affordable? Someone earning 45,00 certainly can't get a mortgage for a 230,000. According to the Central banks 3.5 LTI rule someone earning 45,000 can only get a mortgage for 157,500 so who would provide mortgage finance? I assume SF would propose the government lend people the money? If so that raises questions about what happens in the event of non repayment as currently happens with government housing schemes.

Secondly, seems these would be leasehold purchases as opposed to freehold, and properties cannot be sold for a profit.

No land will be sold or transferred out of public ownership for the purpose of delivering these homes, and if an owner wishes to sell their house in years to come, they will have to sell back to within the affordable housing scheme, adjusted for inflation.

Sounds great but how would this work in practice? Would these be sold back to the scheme who them resell to someone on the list? Or can the property owner resell to whoever they want as long as they are able to avail of the scheme? Since historically property prices rise on average far faster than inflation the second option would be open to rampant abuse. On the other hand if you have to sell back to the housing scheme do they guarantee you the price you paid plus inflation when you decide to sell? How do you factor in depreciation to the property over that time into the purchase price, or how do you factor in improvements made during the lifetime of the property?

maccored · 03-06-2020 10:55AM

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it is a very instructive point, it gives us a chance to assess how Sinn Fein might perform if given the chance to be in government.

The abysmal performance of Sinn Fein in government in Northern Ireland should serve as a wake-up call to voters down here.

how can you compare the multifaceted nationalist/unionist/neither/british government set up in the north to a normal government?

blanch152 · 03-06-2020 11:13AM

maccored wrote: »

how can you compare the multifaceted nationalist/unionist/neither/british government set up in the north to a normal government?

Well, you can't have it both ways.

You and others have told us many times that it is wrong that FF and FG rule out Sinn Fein for government because they are in government in the North, but then say we cannot measure their performance up there.

For me, it is quite legitimate to say that SF are not fit for government down here, both because there is only a limited form of government up North, and that within that limited form, they have performed abysmally (e.g. on homelessness).

maccored · 03-06-2020 11:21AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, you can't have it both ways.

You and others have told us many times that it is wrong that FF and FG rule out Sinn Fein for government because they are in government in the North, but then say we cannot measure their performance up there.

For me, it is quite legitimate to say that SF are not fit for government down here, both because there is only a limited form of government up North, and that within that limited form, they have performed abysmally (e.g. on homelessness).

cant have it boths ways? how about having a reality check - the setup in the north is not a normal government so you cant compare here to there. might suit your twisted anti shinner angle, but its not based in reality

By the by - I have ALWAYS stated my perference for a FF/FG govn ... mainly so they can become one party and people can see how ****ing useless they are.

Mortelaro · 03-06-2020 11:30AM

maccored wrote: »

By the by - I have ALWAYS stated my perference for a FF/FG govn ... mainly so they can become one party and people can see how ****ing useless they are.

The tiny little old Republic of Ireland is Europe's fastest growing Economy and has been most of the last 2 decades ,better than the UK lower unemployment rates and higher,much higher benefits

How that's defined as useless you'll need to explain

maccored · 03-06-2020 12:24PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

The tiny little old Republic of Ireland is Europe's fastest growing Economy and has been most of the last 2 decades ,better than the UK lower unemployment rates and higher,much higher benefits

How that's defined as useless you'll need to explain

apple, google, facebook - youve those to thank for the financial figures. homelessness, a falling to bits health service and a social welfare system thats out of control ..... thats useless. If you think the majority of the population is well off then your view is skewed. Just wait til the recession round the corner hit - then we'll see how grand your statement is

its obvious the likes of yourself and blanch152 are cheerleaders for FF and FG so its also obvious all we'll hear from you is SF bad, FF / FG good.

jm08 · 03-06-2020 12:25PM

IAmTheReign wrote: »

Where are the details of the plan available? There's no link on the article and I couldn't find anything on the SF website. I'd like to see mrore details.

Its a proposal to County Councils/Local authorities, not a PR exercise.

From what little is in the article a couple of things stands out though. Who decided 230,000 is affordable? Someone earning 45,00 certainly can't get a mortgage for a 230,000. According to the Central banks 3.5 LTI rule someone earning 45,000 can only get a mortgage for 157,500 so who would provide mortgage finance? I assume SF would propose the government lend people the money? If so that raises questions about what happens in the event of non repayment as currently happens with government housing schemes.

There are two schemes there, one is for affordable rent and one for affordable purchase. If you can't get the cash together to buy, there is the option of renting the property at a max. of €800-900 per month.

A couple with both working should be able to afford a mortgage of €230,000.

Secondly, seems these would be leasehold purchases as opposed to freehold, and properties cannot be sold for a profit.

Sounds great but how would this work in practice? Would these be sold back to the scheme who them resell to someone on the list? Or can the property owner resell to whoever they want as long as they are able to avail of the scheme? Since historically property prices rise on average far faster than inflation the second option would be open to rampant abuse. On the other hand if you have to sell back to the housing scheme do they guarantee you the price you paid plus inflation when you decide to sell? How do you factor in depreciation to the property over that time into the purchase price, or how do you factor in improvements made during the lifetime of the property?

My understanding of it is that the State would continue to own the site and if selling have to sell it back to the Scheme with adjustment for increase in value which will basically mean that the State/Council continues to have affordable housing.

I'm sure there could be a formula for working out what the value of the house is based on cost of living/building etc.

jm08 · 03-06-2020 12:32PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

The tiny little old Republic of Ireland is Europe's fastest growing Economy and has been most of the last 2 decades ,better than the UK lower unemployment rates and higher,much higher benefits

How that's defined as useless you'll need to explain

We may have the fastest growing economy in Europe, but health and housing are a shambles. We spend more per capita on health than everyone else. The Children's hospital has got completely out of hand and the national maternity hospital isn't much better.

Housing policy is just wrong - imagine you can get incentives to build hotels and commercial buildings that you won't get to build houses.

FrancieBrady · 03-06-2020 12:55PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

The tiny little old Republic of Ireland is Europe's fastest growing Economy and has been most of the last 2 decades ,better than the UK lower unemployment rates and higher,much higher benefits

How that's defined as useless you'll need to explain

The usefulness of a sitting government is surely easily defined by the amount of people willing to vote them back in? In FG's case, useful to 20%.

Mortelaro · 03-06-2020 01:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The usefulness of a sitting government is surely easily defined by the amount of people willing to vote them back in? In FG's case, useful to 20%.

But but but it was ffg plus independents so Shirley closer to 50%

FrancieBrady · 03-06-2020 01:13PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

But but but it was ffg plus independents so Shirley closer to 50%

Ah so now it was a de facto coalition last time, because it suits your argument.

Mortelaro · 03-06-2020 01:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah so now it was a de facto coalition last time, because it suits your argument.

Oh so it is FG now because it suits your argument

FrancieBrady · 03-06-2020 01:25PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

Oh so it is FG now because it suits your argument

Yes, as the main party of 'government' only 20% see their 'usefulness'.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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