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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #9332
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    growleaves wrote: »
    Alistair Haimes: The virus that turned up late

    This bizzare response to a unique flu strain that only effects the elderly has one saving grace that hopefully it won't be allowed happen again.

    When the inquest is carried and the overreaction is dissected, the postmortem will say Ireland completely overreacted and destroyed the country when the evidence was available for the correct course of action from Sweden.
    Masks and testing.


  • #9333
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,948 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Is anyone staying with there 5k limit now ?
    By the looks of Instagram and other social media platforms the vast majority are going well beyond 5k ,


  • #9334
    VonLuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    The media are delighted with all the clicks they are getting and have pumped out a constant stream of fear-mongering from day 1.

    We will look back on these days in the coming years. The billions of debt added to our children's and grand-kids futures, the hundreds of thousands of lost jobs.

    The loss of lives through reduced health spending in the coming years will dwarf anything seen by Covid.

    It's quite amusing looking at your comment on fear-mongering and then reading the rest of your post.


  • #9335
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    thanks for that. i'd imagine its very few, in the UK its 500 people.

    what's the argument against focusing on restrictions and cocooning for those in high risk categories?


  • #9336
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,128 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    how many people under 65 with no co morbidities have died in ireland?

    I think it was 17 below age 45 in total, that was including those with existing conditions. Much more people in this age group died in the Covid timeline on the roads in 2019, can we shut down the roads now too?


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  • #9337
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    growleaves wrote: »
    Alistair Haimes: The virus that turned up late
    It is completely UK-centric and the UK has not exactly been a good role model in much of this. Lockdowns were in response what was seen in China and especially Italy and Spain. He seems to have a lot of issues with that more than anything else.

    Was it the right call? Probably, in light of the novelty of the virus, its not being spotted and transmissibility.

    Will we do it differently next time? Yes, and we'll do a better job of it. I think the possible options of distancing and restriction will still be there but may be less of a requirement due to overall future responses. Medicine will help us there and if enough treatments can be found to make it all but a mild illness in nearly everyone the threat will have been beaten away.


  • #9338
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    If ever there was an example of the dangers of group-think, the above list sums it up perfectly.

    A load of single-issue bureaucrats clucking away at each other in a echo-chamber.

    There's not one of them that have spent a day working in the real-economy in decades. They can concentrate on covering their arses, safe in the knowledge their gold-plated salaries and pensions will protect them from the coming sh;t-storm.

    The rest of us will need to pick up the pieces of the absolute mess they've made of the economy.

    Examiner reporting that Donohue has confirmed Public Sector pay rise in October.

    Right under article reporting Minister McHugh saying schools may not open in Sept.

    We need a new government/election asap as these idiots have completely lost the plot.


  • #9339
    Harpon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 166 ✭✭Harpon


    Gregor Samsa wrote: »
    As of May 7, 14% of deaths in ICUs didn't have an underlying medical condition. That's 10 people (as of that date, 69 people had died in ICU). If you extrapolate that out to all deaths (today, 1,639), that's 229 deaths. That stat doesn't factor in age.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137125-coronavirus-analysis/

    Straight answer to your question is we don't know.

    92% of deaths are people aged 65 or over. The median age of deaths is 82.

    The facts now show we should have focused restrictions on protecting older people and immune comprised people. The rest of us should have continued on with life but wore masks and washed hands frequently. This was all so new so you can forgive them for making the mistake, but now we know the facts continuing with this policy of current restrictions is insanity. They are using a bazooka to crack a nut.


  • #9340
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    In tomorrow mornings Irish times. Safe to say it didn't last too long so, although it's not mandatory they've quite clearly been told to get rid of it already. CMO being over ruled on the travel stance.

    "The two-week quarantine period for people arriving into the State from abroad will be lifted for those coming from countries where the coronavirus has been controlled, under plans being considered by the Government."

    You didn't even read that article then I guess.

    In it, it says The Taoiseach told the call such changes may be made in “months not weeks”.


  • #9341
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    JPCN1 wrote: »
    Examiner reporting that Donohue has confirmed Public Sector pay rise in October.

    Right under article reporting Minister McHugh saying schools may not open in Sept.

    We need a new government/election asap as these idiots have completely lost the plot.
    The other "idiots" in the potential new government agree with all of this.


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  • #9342
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    VonLuck wrote: »
    It's quite amusing looking at your comment on fear-mongering and then reading the rest of your post.

    I'm glad you're amused.

    The billions of debt and hundreds of thousands of job losses are quite real though, I assure you. The fear-mongering over ten of thousands of Covid deaths was a load of bollox.

    I'll leave you to figure out the subtle differences between the two.


  • #9343
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    RollieFingers wrote: »
    Funny how any poll showing the majority of people asked are happy with how things are being handled are instantly dismissed, but anecdotes from people on Boards are taken as gospel.

    Similarly any recognised and influential group of qualified scientists and medical personnel too dismissed in favour of some obscure professor none of us have ever heard of because it's good to question authority. But if you question this recently revered figure they've happened upon who is pushing views that fall in line with their own, well then how dare you, you'll be hit with 'oh I didnt know you were a professor' line , or 'so a random boardsie is questioning the qualifiations of this person?'.

    Sums up the whole thread really, one of the most bizarre threads I've ever seen on the website. I don't think I've ever seen such an unbalanced discussion before


  • #9344
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    JPCN1 wrote: »
    Examiner reporting that Donohue has confirmed Public Sector pay rise in October.

    Right under article reporting Minister McHugh saying schools may not open in Sept.

    We need a new government/election asap as these idiots have completely lost the plot.

    Jesus Christ - what fcuking world are these clowns living in?


  • #9345
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Just got a haircut. Fantastic service- there’s a ton of work going on in the background (including our blessed Gardai are customers). Fcukin delighted to get that - Covid freaks can shove it where the sun don’t shine. We are going to live regardless


  • #9346
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,442 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    titan18 wrote: »
    You didn't even read that article then I guess.

    In it, it says The Taoiseach told the call such changes may be made in “months not weeks”.

    It was behind a paywall last night so how could I read it ??
    If it's not behind one now then fair enough.

    What I copied in was the opening paragraph with no paywall.

    He did more interviews this morning basically saying the same. Like it or not people will travel through July and August regardless


  • #9347
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I think it was 17 below age 45 in total, that was including those with existing conditions. Much more people in this age group died in the Covid timeline on the roads in 2019, can we shut down the roads now too?

    holy god, if thats accurate we are overcooking this situation to a preposterous extent.


  • #9348
    thelad95
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,812 ✭✭✭thelad95


    road_high wrote: »
    Just got a haircut. Fantastic service- there’s a ton of work going on in the background (including our blessed Gardai are customers). Fcukin delighted to get that - Covid freaks can shove it where the sun don’t shine. We are high to live regardless

    Where could one avail of such a service?


  • #9349
    JPCN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The other "idiots" in the potential new government agree with all of this.


    Sadly, that is a fair enough point. Maybe we could ask the Troika to come back and save us then.


  • #9350
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Jesus Christ - what fcuking world are these clowns living in?

    We’ll see...if they’re forced into an imf programme or similar they’ll either be reversed or worse. Donohoe is on planet zog, I heard him on Newstalk this morning . Won’t take much for the markets to turn negative on Ireland then it’ll be a very rapid snowball


  • #9351
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Jesus Christ - what fcuking world are these clowns living in?
    One where industrial unrest at an agreement being reneged on would most likely follow a cut and probably legal action. It may also have been a price of the programme for government.


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  • #9352
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    thelad95 wrote: »
    Where could one avail of such a service?

    Loads doing it in the QT pal. If your regular barber has a Facebook page just text them and see what’s possible


  • #9353
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    It was behind a paywall last night so how could I read it. If it's not behind one now then fair enough.

    What I copied in was the opening paragraph with no paywall.

    He did more interviews this morning basically saying the same. Like it or not people will travel through July and August regardless

    It's not behind one ATM anyway. Also says

    It is understood the changes could apply from August or earlier, although there is no clarity on this at present.

    A senior Government source said Mr Varadkar stressed the envisaged timetable is “months not weeks”, with everything depending on how the virus develops in the coming weeks


  • #9354
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    thanks for that. i'd imagine its very few, i the UK its 500 people.

    what's the argument against focusing on restrictions and cocooning for those in high risk categories?

    Well, lets not forget that this is really what's being done - albeit not at the pace some people want. The idea is that restrictions are lifted for most people, with hygiene measures in place, and the vulnerable are still encouraged to cocoon. This is what's currently happening. You may not agree with the pace.

    The first argument against a sudden and absolute lifting of restrictions, with cocooning for the high risk, is that not everyone who is high risk knows they're high risk. Plus cocooning is not an absolute guarantee that the vulnerable will not catch it - many vulnerable people rely on some form of close proximity contact with other people to get through their daily lives. So protecting the vulnerable requires more than just cocooning. The lower the rate out in the community, the safer they are even with cocooning.

    The third issue is that death is not the be-all and end-all of the negative effects of this virus on society. Most people who get it don't die. Most people who get really sick from it don't die. But the people who get really sick from it will clog up our hospitals and healthcare systems, even if the don't die. So the focus on deaths is a bit of a distraction - there's a massive societal cost to an overloaded health system that non-vulnerable people will contribute to too that has to be taken into account.

    Obviously all these arguments can be contested in some shape or form, or simply dismissed as not worth the cost.

    I can't comment on imaginary numbers.


  • #9355
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    JPCN1 wrote: »
    Examiner reporting that Donohue has confirmed Public Sector pay rise in October.

    Right under article reporting Minister McHugh saying schools may not open in Sept.

    We need a new government/election asap as these idiots have completely lost the plot.

    Yeah, we need SF to get into government. They will prolong the lockdown and the dishing out of more money that we don’t have until we run out of lenders.
    That would be great..........wouldn’t it?


  • #9356
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,442 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    titan18 wrote: »
    It's not behind one ATM anyway. Also says

    It is understood the changes could apply from August or earlier, although there is no clarity on this at present.

    A senior Government source said Mr Varadkar stressed the envisaged timetable is “months not weeks”, with everything depending on how the virus develops in the coming weeks

    The current legislation will quickly become a joke anyway, fill in the form and off you go, should be have been done months ago.

    Anyway this'll all get pushed over to a new government more than likely


  • #9357
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,128 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Outside healthcare supermarkets should be ground zero at the moment for risk of catching the virus, I've not heard of a single case of any hospitalisation of a member of staff at a supermarket in Ireland. No union representing retail staff has outlined any hospitalisation or deaths of the staff they represent here.


  • #9358
    newuser99999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    JPCN1 wrote: »
    Examiner reporting that Donohue has confirmed Public Sector pay rise in October.

    Right under article reporting Minister McHugh saying schools may not open in Sept.

    We need a new government/election asap as these idiots have completely lost the plot.

    I’d rather not have pedophile apologists and murderers as our government THANKS.


  • #9359
    Mebuntu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭Mebuntu


    Catching up on the overnight posts this comment (following on from the full list of medical experts posted in this thread) struck me.
    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Thanks for posting the full list of "experts". If, as you infer, these people had better insight into a deadly virus they would have stopped travel to/from virus-ravaged N. Italy, stopped 2,500 Italians coming to Dublin for a weekend partying, clubbing and booze-up for a non-existent rugby match and then also stopped thousands of Irish going to Cheltenham to bring even more virus back here. Not to mention the nursing home fiasco.

    They had one vital ingredient missing - common sense. They made all the wrong decisions then so what makes you believe they are not doing the same all over again?

    There was a fatal absence of common sense in the beginning so drastic measures had to be taken. I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

    Everyone knows we can't just rush back to normality but, once again, the absence of common sense in decision-making is evident. I would add that a lack of consistency is also contributing to the anger and frustration.

    On the statistics side there is one we have never been given. With all of the tracing and tracking of victims and their contacts we have not been told how many were infected and/or died from the foolishly allowed events mentioned above.

    It is easy to come to the conclusion that ass-covering is the primary aim of all concerned at the top.


  • #9360
    Gregor Samsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    holy god, if thats accurate we are overcooking this situation to a preposterous extent.

    That opinion depends on what relative value you put on the lives of the vulnerable.

    Just remember that these are the statistics with lockdown in place, so it doesn't make sense to use them to say that lockdown shouldn't have taken place. They could be evidence that lockdown worked, in the sense that it kept the deaths low.


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  • #9361
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It is completely UK-centric and the UK has not exactly been a good role model in much of this.

    The article you mean? Yes it is. I'm interested in perspectives from all countries, and I've posted articles translated from Greek and Spanish as well.

    Especially since one of the things people can't get their head around is how so many international governments and media could be wrong at the same time. It blows people's minds thinking about it. Yet it happened in the past as well - world wars, eugenics etc.
    Was it the right call? Probably, in light of the novelty of the virus, its not being spotted and transmissibility.

    It was the wrong call. 'Novelty', fear of the unknown, isn't a good excuse for reckless and unproven policies.
    Will we do it differently next time? Yes, and we'll do a better job of it.

    If in 7 months time you are presented with climate models predicting mass death and Youtube videos of extreme weather events in a European city and you are asked to support carbon rationing, travel restrictions, shutdowns, electronic monitoring etc. what will you say?

    I can see the 'next time' coming around the corner soon. It looks to me like all the same people who jumped for every wrong choice this time will jump for every wrong choice again.


This discussion has been closed.
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