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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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  • 27-05-2020 1:04am
    #1
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Horrendous. Just watched the CNN clip (Which contains graphic scenes).



    Footage starts after he is arreseted but it doesn't matter no-one should be treated like that.

    Those officers need to be charged.



    Admin Note (03-06-20):

    There are pages of backhanded swipes in this thread in the past day, enough that I was considering just purging the last 6 hours of posts.

    From here on in, any backhanded comments or swipes towards each other will be met with an immediate card (yellow or red, depending on the severity), and a threadban. Outright insults will be met with a week long forum ban.


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    #2
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,094 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Yeah I saw this afternoon. The incident was disgusting and didn't need to happen.

    Everyone will be happy to know the 4 officers involved have been Fired, hours after an initial statement that they would be suspended pending an internal investigation.

    #WhyHeKneeled


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    #3
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Fired isn't enough. They should be charged with murder.

    Reminds me of the goons from clockwork orange.


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    #4
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,185 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I'm always amazed that staff in the USA can be fired so quickly.

    I assume that can't happen here.


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    #5
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    They mention a 10 minute clip on facebook, does it show the other 3 doing much (apart from obviously not stopping the guy )? Do they even tell him to take his knee off him? presumably they used the most relevant part?


    Whats the situation with the laws around being fired? They say the 4 were fired, yet with loads of the shootings, cops were placed on leave for ages first. Have they opened themselves up to a court case by going straight to firing them or has he the power to do that?


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    #6
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,094 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    BloodBath wrote: »
    Fired isn't enough. They should be charged with murder.

    Reminds me of the goons from clockwork orange.

    I agree. This only happened a few hours ago (or at least the video emerging of it did) and I wouldn't expect a turnaround on any such charges right away. The proper thing to do actually is the PD recuses themselves from the chain and the DA needs to decide who to prosecute, and that process might take a minute.


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    #7
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,231 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Very sad.

    Also its sad to say I'm not surprised seeing how US police seem to go about their business.


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    #8
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,094 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Geuze wrote: »
    I'm always amazed that staff in the USA can be fired so quickly.

    I assume that can't happen here.

    Police are heavily unionized, and are one of the few types of unions that political conservatives veer away from upsetting.

    I don't know if this PD in particular was unionized, but it was Minneapolis, Minnesota.

    If they were union, the sudden firing is more significant IMHO.


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    #9
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,094 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Piece originally written this afternoon/4-8 hours ago:
    All body camera footage in the Minneapolis case was turned over to the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, and the agency asked to speak with anyone who saw the arrest or recorded video. The officers involved have been put on paid administrative leave, per department protocol [newer updates say 4 officers were fired]. The agency said the officers' names will be released after initial interviews with the people involved and witnesses.

    The FBI is conducting a separate federal civil rights investigation, at the request of Minneapolis police, the BCA said. Messages left with the FBI were not immediately returned.

    The American Civil Liberties Union was among many organizations calling for the officers to be held accountable.

    “You can’t watch this appalling video posted by brave eyewitnesses on social media without seeing police officers’ callous disregard for a black man’s life," ACLU of Minnesota Executive Director John Gordon said, calling the death "both needless and preventable."

    https://www.kmov.com/news/4-minneapolis-officers-fired-after-death-of-black-man-video-shows-officer-kneeling-on-his/article_5bc04664-9f53-11ea-9292-f77e394530e9.html

    A state Criminal Apprehension Bureau, btw, is primarily concerned with matters such as this where a suspect dies while in police custody. FBI may charge any 4 of these officers, seemingly, with violating the man's civil liberties. I don't know how clear the chain of events would be to proving violation of civil liberties, and say, charging them with manslaughter. It depends on a lot of particulars that are still unclear. And, they were still acting under the color of law. But the ACLU will pressure. The family will pressure, and inevitably the city, the media, nation, and social media. So, who can really say yet. I don't know if that was the moment he died, for example? And at what point did they call EMTs and why this and why that etc. - I've only seen a little bit of the clip so far and so has most of joe public.


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    #10
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    I just watched the whole video(10 mins one) It's even worse then CNN make out.

    The bystanders tried to intervene and cop with his knee on Floyd's neck pulls out mace to keep them away.

    Really says something when bystanders nearly try to stop the police themselves.


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    #11
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,094 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    2u2me wrote: »
    I just watched the whole video(10 mins one) It's even worse then CNN make out.

    The bystanders tried to intervene and cop with his knee on Floyd's neck pulls out mace to keep them away.

    Really says something when bystanders nearly try to stop the police themselves.

    The briefer version I had seen, I equally felt the urge to physically intervene to get his airway open, but also the strong apprehension of what the consequences of that are here in the US. Now, I'm not suggesting these officers on this scene were at the low-ready, or anything; I am opining that they would surely have arrested and prosecuted anyone who did, which is a crippling process in the US justice system. Especially when you're going to be arrested on top of that, if not tasered or met equally with Excessive Force as the person you're trying to help. I don't think there's any protection in the law for bystanders to take action in this type of case scenario.

    Expect this to get more political though, with intrigue and victim blaming etc. too. The Call involving the suspect and the officers was about suspected cheque fraud at a grocery store.

    I'm seeing the full length video now, and the suspect's pleas to comply with and surrender to the officers' arrest. I'm sorry I don't know the man's name yet. Officers behavior I don't have words for yet, but they are definitely improper, and through their words and actions and the sheer duration of the problem here, on the side of the road, I can see why Minneapolis PD isn't, you know, waiting for an autopsy report to victim-blame the guy for smoking weed or something - because the officers were clearly already in the wrong well enough before the point of no return for ending this man's life. The suspect was a sobbing mess. When officers asked him if he would comply and get in the vehicle he begged yes. They still sat in place against his neck while other officers tried to mock the intelligence of the public going "he's a tough guy, he's a tough guy" etc.


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    #12
    Be right back
    Registered Users Posts: 6,092 ✭✭✭Be right back


    2u2me wrote: »
    I just watched the whole video(10 mins one) It's even worse then CNN make out.

    The bystanders tried to intervene and cop with his knee on Floyd's neck pulls out mace to keep them away.

    Really says something when bystanders nearly try to stop the police themselves.

    Even when he had passed out, the cop still had his knee on the poor man's neck. Desperate stuff.


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    #13
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Overheal wrote: »
    . I don't think there's any protection in the law for bystanders to take action in this type of case scenario.

    .

    Problem is , protections in law are the least of your worries if they decide to shoot you if you run at the guy to get him off.

    Then on the law side, if you knock him off him and get arrested and say you were stopping him killing him, they'll say he wasnt going to die anyway. Proving he was killing him would probably be impossible, except if you failed...........


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    #14
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,068 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Whatever he had done, it gave Police no right to do what they did.

    He was not aggressive and was happy to be taken away once he could get up off the floor.

    Seen the whole video and the book should be thrown at that police officer who had his knee on the chap. No excuses for this at all.


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    #15
    Billy Mays
    Registered Users Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    I'm gonna have to know this guy Floyd's criminal history before I decide whether the cop should be charged with his death or should walk away scott free icon14.png


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    #16
    Telly
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Telly


    This is so sad, the poor man :(


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    #17
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The US is such a mess.

    Between this and the woman who called the cops claiming a black guy was threatening her, it's clear that their racism problem hasn't gone away and is in fact getting worse.


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    #18
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    They mention a 10 minute clip on facebook, does it show the other 3 doing much (apart from obviously not stopping the guy )? Do they even tell him to take his knee off him? presumably they used the most relevant

    Three of the cops were on top of the man.


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    #19
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,746 ✭✭✭degsie


    The casual nature of how the police snuffed this mans life out is appalling. Another public execution carried out in broad daylight.


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    #20
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Whats the situation with the laws around being fired? They say the 4 were fired, yet with loads of the shootings, cops were placed on leave for ages first. Have they opened themselves up to a court case by going straight to firing them or has he the power to do that?
    Varies by state and by job. Cops in the US aren't the same as over here.
    To a certain extent it's more of a "regular job"; get an interview, pass a background check, do a training course over a few weeks, go out into the wild.

    Each state, and in many cases each county within a state is responsible for hiring and managing its own police force.

    Like most jobs, they can be dismissed for gross misconduct. There will often not be any formal oversight body. Their boss just decides they fcked up and fires them.

    In this case they would review the video and decide that the four cops committed gross misconduct and fire them. Even if they were acquitted at a later date of murder, they still breached the rules of the job.

    The sad thing is that all four of these guys will just go get a job with a police force in another county or state. In most countries, a dismissal from any police force would automatically bar you from working for any other law enforcement agency.


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    #21
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,696 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm always trying to apply the innocent till proven guilty, respect the badge line. But this one is very hard to defend.
    I couldnt watch the full video.


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    #22
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,311 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    seamus wrote: »
    Varies by state and by job. Cops in the US aren't the same as over here.
    To a certain extent it's more of a "regular job"; get an interview, pass a background check, do a training course over a few weeks, go out into the wild.

    Each state, and in many cases each county within a state is responsible for hiring and managing its own police force.

    Like most jobs, they can be dismissed for gross misconduct. There will often not be any formal oversight body. Their boss just decides they fcked up and fires them.

    In this case they would review the video and decide that the four cops committed gross misconduct and fire them. Even if they were acquitted at a later date of murder, they still breached the rules of the job.

    The sad thing is that all four of these guys will just go get a job with a police force in another county or state. In most countries, a dismissal from any police force would automatically bar you from working for any other law enforcement agency.

    not if they get convicted of negligent homicide. Which they should.


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    #23
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Geuze wrote: »
    I'm always amazed that staff in the USA can be fired so quickly.

    I assume that can't happen here.

    Most jobs in America have no associated contract, Senior executives will have a contract similar to what we have but the workers do not. Workers will have terms which is their hours of work, salary, paid time off, sick days and location. The main protection is to do a good job in the first place that drives a culture of working long hours, not taking holidays and generally shafting your colleagues to make you look good. Its ruthless!


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    #24
    Nozebleed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Nozebleed


    there no intent to kill the man. in fairness. its accidental..they are trying to restrain the man,heavy handed..but murderous intent? no..


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    #25
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭harr


    Always wary of these videos , as we never really see what happens before the video starts. But after watching the 10 minute clip this is really hard to defend in any form...even after the man goes unconscious the cop doesn’t release pressure and the bystander was well aware of the damage the cop was causing.
    The man was in no way a treat after the first 4 or 5 minutes ..if 4 trained cops can’t subdue One criminal without having to resort To this level then they are or were in the wrong job.
    I can definitely see a murder charge for the cop using his knee..the others might get lesser charges.
    At one stage he was saying his stomach and chest hurts so the pressure on his body must have huge and enough for him to piss himself.
    The video is a hard watch, witnessing the life being squeezed out of a person and terrible frustration for the bystanders who move than likely would have shot if they had intervened.


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    #26
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,311 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    there no intent to kill the man. in fairness. its accidental..they are trying to restrain the man,heavy handed..but murderous intent? no..

    thats why i think it is negligent homicide. he told them he couldn't breathe. they continued to kneel on his neck.


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    #27
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,311 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    osarusan wrote: »
    We've already seen fakes of one of the McMichaels attending a KKK rally in the other thread. Very easy to fake stuff.


    A google image search for 'make whites great again cap' only shows up that supposed image of the cop and nothing else.

    that wasn't fake, it was somebody that looked like him.


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    #28
    two wheels good
    Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Billy Mays wrote: »
    I'm gonna have to know this guy Floyd's criminal history before I decide whether the cop should be charged with his death or should walk away scott free icon14.png

    You seem unaware of how policing and the application of justice is designed to function.


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    #29
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,311 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    two wheels good wrote: »
    You seem unaware of how policing and the application of justice is designed to function.

    i think you missed the sarcasm in the post


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    #30
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Do people regularly watch American news on here all the time? I wouldn't recommend it, that country is in the middle of an intergenerational culture war and picking either side is just going to enrage you.


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    #31
    Tony Ugly Harpoon
    Posts: 0 ✭ Tony Ugly Harpoon


    As one of the bystanders said, the cop was enjoying the whole thing.


This discussion has been closed.
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