Golf digest top 100 2020

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've played 15 of the top 20 - big gap having not played - Royal Portrush.
Must sort out soon.

A new one - and one I realistically will never play is, The Golf Course at Adare Manor. Kind of first time, to have a course that you know, you can't even play - new to Ireland. I don't even want to play it.

This concept is a sad development (for me) - the top courses were/are getting more and more illusive and expensive. Following that American route of price Trumps all else. To be honest I hate that fake resort feel - caddies and 5 star pro shops with logos on everything chasing the yank book. When you turn up (local/Irish/GUI) - there is almost an embarrassment in all parties at the show, put on for the yanks.

Rory McIlroy put it well recently saying he preferred the casual feel of Irish golf versus US golf. The No Laying Up guys have been critical of what has happened at top resorts in their own country. They love the feel of Irish golf (but not paying the green fees makes that easy )

I love the feel of real Irish golf - to be honest, some of these top places are leaving behind the unique selling point and brilliance we have in golf here. You can play with anyone from an unemployed musician to a high court judge.

Sure leave them off - we can typically play these places in our own time , but increasingly - off mats , short courses, mid winter and an almost contemptuous atmosphere as you try get a tee time off some of them.

To name a few prices at present.

Lahinch €240
Portmarnock €250
Royal Portrush £240
Ballybunion €250
Adare €395

Maybe Corona will change things ?

You need to get to acquant yourself with some members Fix.:) I'm not sure about Portmarnock & Portrush but the others can be played for significantly less with a member.

Ballybunion has scratch cups so that's another way to play it for less.

Compared to golf in Portugal or Spain the prices are better for what you get but I agree with you. It's trending the wrong way.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I love the feel of real Irish golf - to be honest, some of these top places are leaving behind the unique selling point and brilliance we have in golf here. You can play with anyone from an unemployed musician to a high court judge.

Thinking about going out tomorrow evening, a couple of slots available, my friends mother or a former Taoiseach. In fairness, he's looking like an unemployed musician these days and she'd strike more fear than any judge.

Edit for relevance: Not a top 100 course.

slave1 wrote: »

Golf Digest differentiated their listing with actual golfer involvement in the process with their ability to influence the rankings through actual real world reviews.
They stopped this a few years back so now just another sitting around the table listing

Lads were getting free rounds out of that.

Fundamentally that alters the golf experience.

Out of the top 31 there are 6 I haven't played.
The biggest green fee I have paid is €100 and I haven't played any with a member.

Ireland has some of the best courses in the world at the cheapest prices.

I reckon I have played 10 of those courses for the same as one green fee of a course in the top 30 of any US listing.

It would be nice if there was a standard GUI rate for courses think there is a local rate for top courses in Scotland so something similar to that.

The biggest thing for me is availability you can ring all those courses and get out for a fee 99% of the time, it's just not like that in other countries.
Even membership is within reach for your average person on most of them.

I would struggle to think of another country where I would want to be a golfer, we are a bit spoiled here for price and quality along with year round conditions where we can play golf and long summer evenings we just can't admit it.

I reckon come July/August you should be able to ring any of these courses and negotiate a deal.
There won't be any tourist green fees this year. €300.00
local 4 ball or leave the place empty.
What would you do?

On the list itself, I always find them a bit of fun and good as a reference. I would like to play every one of them but at the same time if I am spending over 100 euro on a round of golf it is a once in a blue moon - a bit like going for a meal at a michellin star restaurant.

Has the Hogs Head @ 42 even got members, afaik it is just a Corporate golf course with a lot of wealthy golfers being flown in by helicopter. I witnessed this first hand when I was doing the Ring of Kerry last year and ventured over to take a look at the course..Wide open on a cliff top, I cannot for the life of me see how it's listed at 42

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Has anyone played Adare - or Hogs head.

I played Adare last Spring. Was invited by a member who was a contact through work. It was an amazing experience from the titleist pyramid of balls on the range to the personalised bag tag that they had waiting, the place is on a different level to anywhere i had been or will be again im sure.

The greens were immaculate and the fringes and run offs were better than the greens in my own course. Almost all the greens were elavated and if u were short or long the big run offs left you 30 yards pitches. There are a few unreal looking signature holes but even the "normal" holes are special due to the condition of absolutely everything.

I played with two members and had a pint in the bar after. Everyone was sound and no real feeling of being out of place which i had expected. The round was free for me and my mate but members guest fee is 170 at that time of year fyi. If with a member you dont need a caddy either. A 4 ball with caddies is close to 2k. Crazy money

I don't understand why people get so upset about certain clubs charging expensive green fees. It's their club, they can do as they please. If you don't like it then don't pay it. The only reason my own club has opens is money, not because they want to share the club with slievenamon distance members.
What's the purpose of clubs joining the GUI? Is so there members can get a handicap. I'm guessing that the likes of Hogs Head and Old Head are not members.

Golfhead65 wrote: »

I was thinking, if Hogs Head and Old Head are not affiliated to the GUI, Why are they ranked ? They shouldn't get a rank alongside clubs who have affiliation..It's like using a tested drug against a non tested drug, both serve the same purpose maybe, but one hasnt followed the procedures. Just in the same way whoever compiles these lists get ENTITLEMENTS..Just my thoughts on it

By the same token, you can't pretend they don't exist. If you're evaluating courses, whether they are affiliated with the GUI or not, they are still golf courses and can be played, albeit at a cost.

doublecross wrote: »

I don't understand why people get so upset about certain clubs charging expensive green fees. It's their club, they can do as they please. If you don't like it then don't pay it.

We are all here because we like golf. Lets be honest though, the use of large tracts of Irish land for golf courses is literally THE most inefficient way possible for land to be used.

Beachfront land, links land, is special. I can't imagine a childhood not spent playing in dunes, chasing hares through maram grass, hearing skylarks sing overhead (but somehow not being able to see them).

Some of the beach courses in Dublin make their lands accessible. Their courses are used to their fullest to bring as much joy (or frustration ) as possible to as many people possible. As I posted above, these have been my best days of the past few years.

Regarding, "it's their club they can do as they please". Well sometimes you can't or shouldn't be able to do whatever you like with your plot. Things can't always be done with culturally important sites. You can't just buy the land surrounding the blarney stone and cut it up into bits to sell to the highest bidders. You can't, or shouldn't, be able to buy an old Irish castle to refashion it and exclude the public from it.

The wooden bridge across to bullwall is historic beautiful land. It's very close to high density population. It's historically and culturally important. Royal Dublin and nearby portmarnock have excluded women members since their inception and still do. I'd argue that they also exclude Irish golfers by charging fees that are only paid by tourists. The land they are on is becoming too culturally and recreationally important to allow this exclusion to continue indefinitely is my view.

Look, other stuff, like Adare with it's 5 star service, greens manicured to within an inch of their life, personalise badges etc. The public can still go to Adare, I get that, and I understand their green fee. Tens of millions of euro and thousands of hours of work made that place what it is and what they've done with the place looks to be incredible. Portmarnock, the land was sculpted for them. They didn't have irrigation until 20 years ago. In St Andrews the public can walk the course, but if you want to see where seve splashed out of the sand in Dublin, well you'll get a bit of change back with your €300.

Culturally important and beautiful places all across the world are priced differently for tourists, for example in Iceland hot springs are priced separately for tourists, with exceptions made for local icelandics to be able to visit.

Damn, this turned into rant Anyway, point is, there's some places that access to tracts of land to own inhabitants of that same land shouldn't be €300.. and every day that goes by I begin to feel more strongly about it.

doublecross wrote: »

I don't understand why people get so upset about certain clubs charging expensive green fees. It's their club, they can do as they please. If you don't like it then don't pay it. The only reason my own club has opens is money, not because they want to share the club with slievenamon distance members.
What's the purpose of clubs joining the GUI? Is so there members can get a handicap. I'm guessing that the likes of Hogs Head and Old Head are not members.

I think it is far more complex than that. There are many dimension to it.

I've paid very high green fees and will in the future - but you can still feel "upset" / disappointed in the process. Particularity when some lad floats in on a nod and a wink - as he know the local bar owner (but he doesn't really) - or as I've seen, some local GAA hero brings 7 lads in for 30/40 euro - there is me, 250 euro down and have contributed more to golf (financially) in Ireland than any of them (7 of them anyway).

Sports typically are in a Union and golf shares that as a concept. You see this in other sports like Rugby and Soccer and GAA. People invite each other to their facilities and share each others' grounds. Fundamentally there is an altruistic attitude to this, and this was always the case in golf too (I hoped) ? I'm more than happy to see other golfers enjoy open weeks / opens etc at my club. But it is about reciprocation at a reasonable level. I'm not too happy when they are from a club that does not get into the spirit of things.

No one in their right mind is claiming they can walk up any day of the week and look for a round at 50/60 euro. €100 is a very fair green fee for someone coming from a club in the same union. Who have opened our club to them. They don't have any opens at all - so what is the story for a GUI member ?

Your suggestion they should charge what they like to anyone - is kind of saying, well we are not going to be a union for all - all courses in Ireland will not be accessible to all - it will only be for the rich or the ones in the know. I think that does a complete disservice to the idea of the union. It is going down the US route - is that what we want ? perhaps. I'd be very disappointed with that.
And, I'm speaking as someone who does pay the fee - and does have contacts in many clubs.

I think Roadrunners post is very interesting and the ownership of the land is a very interesting one - how did some of the land come into their ownership , I don't think we are going from wanting to pay €100 for a round of golf to some crazy socialist land grab. But some of the land ownership on some of the courses - amounted to some lads going out on a boat and sticking a few flags in the ground. Some of the sites have megalithic signs of life. And yet a few people think it is "their club". It is their club , of course. But it still is Ireland - in many cases it almost forms part of our coast. You can be a wealthy club, but you can also have a bit of class.

RoadRunner wrote: »

We are all here because we like golf. Lets be honest though, the use of large tracts of Irish land for golf courses is literally THE most inefficient way possible for land to be used.

Beachfront land, links land, is special. I can't imagine a childhood not spent playing in dunes, chasing hares through maram grass, hearing skylarks sing overhead (but somehow not being able to see them).

Some of the beach courses in Dublin make their lands accessible. Their courses are used to their fullest to bring as much joy (or frustration ) as possible to as many people possible. As I posted above, these have been my best days of the past few years.

Regarding, "it's their club they can do as they please". Well sometimes you can't or shouldn't be able to do whatever you like with your plot. Things can't always be done with culturally important sites. You can't just buy the land surrounding the blarney stone and cut it up into bits to sell to the highest bidders. You can't, or shouldn't, be able to buy an old Irish castle to refashion it and exclude the public from it.

The wooden bridge across to bullwall is historic beautiful land. It's very close to high density population. It's historically and culturally important. Royal Dublin and nearby portmarnock have excluded women members since their inception and still do. I'd argue that they also exclude Irish golfers by charging fees that are only paid by tourists. The land they are on is becoming too culturally and recreationally important to allow this exclusion to continue indefinitely is my view.

Look, other stuff, like Adare with it's 5 star service, greens manicured to within an inch of their life, personalise badges etc. The public can still go to Adare, I get that, and I understand their green fee. Tens of millions of euro and thousands of hours of work made that place what it is and what they've done with the place looks to be incredible. Portmarnock, the land was sculpted for them. They didn't have irrigation until 20 years ago. In St Andrews the public can walk the course, but if you want to see where seve splashed out of the sand in Dublin, well you'll get a bit of change back with your €300.

Culturally important and beautiful places all across the world are priced differently for tourists, for example in Iceland hot springs are priced separately for tourists, with exceptions made for local icelandics to be able to visit.

Damn, this turned into rant Anyway, point is, there's some places that access to tracts of land to own inhabitants of that same land shouldn't be €300.. and every day that goes by I begin to feel more strongly about it.

I wasn't talking about access to right of ways or cultural/historical sites in or around golf course. I meant that it is up to the members to decide what they want to charge visitors to play their club. They pay their membership only seems fair. Wouldn't be fair for me to expect to pay €15 to play portmarnock links because that's what I deem fair or because that's what my club charge, if you get my point.

There’s two sides to the argument on green fees at the big links courses but Hogs Head is in a different category entirely and is an abomination in my opinion. It’s the only course in the country you can’t play or even go in for coffee regardless as to how much you’re happy to pay.

You cannot enter unless you’re with a member and their membership is absolutely tiny. It’s a playground not for the wealthy but for the uber rich mostly from overseas. Utterly American concept. They should never have gotten planning permission from Kerry county council for that development in this day and age. It’s one thing to do that in middle of nowhere in America like Pine Valley or Augusta but to do it on the wild Atlantic way should never have been allowed.

Golfhead65 wrote: »

It was just a thought, A top 100 of affiliated clubs that are accessible to the majority of us and not the Yankee dollar would make more sense.. as for my head scrambled I don't think so and if you thought that from my post there is one of us like that alright..You dont work for Golf Digest by any chance ??

No I don’t.

Golf Digest’s endeavour is to assess Ireland’s golf courses, not its golf clubs. Hence the likes of Carton House gets two separate marks, not one.

Their marking system is very transparent and is focused solely on the 18 holes laid in front of them.

But you’re suggesting they should scrap this concept in favour of one with an eligibility criteria that surrounds the club (not the course). And if I’m reading you right, one in which Old Head would not make the criteria, but Portmarnock would make it.

That’s exceptionally contentious, and therefore scrambled.

——

Fixd we’ve been here before.

You’ll never be able to convince me that someone paying a couple of hundred quid a year to be a 5-day member of a backwater 9 hole course, lays a claim to be in “union” with a club that spends millions maintaining the highest level of facilities.

The logical comparator with other unionised sports is availability of the elite facilities for the smallest clubs. And that just doesn’t happen. Golf (in Ireland) has it so good as it is. Complaining about it just seems petty to me.