Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:30AM

Boggles wrote: »

He also said masks had no effect.

He did and the general conclusions on the effects of masks is very mixed.

No it isn't.

I'm going to ask you for a link for that.

rosiem · 23-05-2020 10:31AM

is_that_so wrote: »

DeGascun mentioned the much higher risk of infection within 1m of someone on account of potential droplet spread. 2m is just to be pathologically certain that there is little to no risk. It's the position of every medical authority from the WHO down.

The WHO recommendation is 1m and is being followed in many countries we should follow suit.

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:34AM

rosiem wrote: »

The WHO recommendation is 1m and is being followed in many countries we should follow suit.

We did initially and then it went out to 2m very quickly.

caveat emptor · 23-05-2020 10:34AM

What could we have done. Oh yeah nothing.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1263846710524153857?s=21

rosiem · 23-05-2020 10:35AM

is_that_so wrote: »

We did initially and then it went out to 2m very quickly.

The recommendation from the WHO currently is 1m we are not following it for some reason

schmoo2k · 23-05-2020 10:35AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't expect one, but it's necessary to call out his rubbish lest others believe him.

There may still be a seasonal pattern to this - there is also a pattern for countries who live "more outside" or "open window" type lifestyles to be less affected (Thailand, Vietnam, parts of Africa).

Brazil has been reckless and its still early days yet, but their numbers per head of pop are well within global stats (same for Mexico). I suspect had Spain / Italy been hit in May / June, their numbers would have been down.

The seasonal nature is not because the Virus doesn't like the heat, its because peoples lifestyles change and when outdoors you naturally distance...

Boggles · 23-05-2020 10:37AM

is_that_so wrote: »

He did and the general conclusions on the effects of masks is very mixed.

Time to put that trumpet away, the general conclusions are now they work and should be worn.

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm going to ask you for a link for that.

That the virus spread conforms to arbitrary distance when in an enclosed space?

Really?

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:37AM

rosiem wrote: »

The recommendation from the WHO currently is 1m we are not following it for some reason

Very few are for that same reason, they made the call to extend it to 2m.

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:41AM

Boggles wrote: »

Time to put that trumpet away, the general conclusions are now they work and should be worn.

Not my trumpet. Mixed is what they say for general use. Should means people can make their own decisions about them.

That the virus spread conforms to arbitrary distance when in an enclosed space?

Really?

Not mentioned nor inferred in my post

caveat emptor · 23-05-2020 10:43AM

is_that_so wrote: »

He did and the general conclusions on the effects of masks is very mixed.

I'm going to ask you for a link for that.

Here you go but then again you knew that.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/409903O/respiratory-protection-against-biohazards.pdf

Diseases that may be caused by inhalation of airborne biological organisms include tuberculosis (TB), Hantavirus, anthrax, coronaviruses (including SARS, MERS and others), and influenza. Biohazards may become airborne, perhaps as the agent itself, such as an anthrax spore, or as the agent riding on some other material that becomes airborne, such as dusts, mists or droplet nuclei
.....

Inhalation of these bioaerosols may be reduced by wearing respirators. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the World Health Organization (WHO), and national health authorities have made numerous recommendations for respirator use where they believed the potential for the spread of disease through the airborne route exists.

Boggles · 23-05-2020 10:43AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Not my trumpet. Mixed is what they say for general use. Should means people can make their own decisions about them.

No, the WHO's stance is "healthy" people should not wear them.

It has been proven without doubt you can be healthy and spread the virus.

They still have not rolled it back and most of the world has now ignored their "advice" and based their decisions on science.

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:45AM

Boggles wrote: »

No, the WHO's stance is "healthy" people should not wear them.

It has been proven without doubt you can be healthy and spread the virus.

They still have not rolled it back and most of the world has now ignored their "advice" and based their decisions on science.

Asymptomatic rather than healthy!

Boggles · 23-05-2020 10:48AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Asymptomatic rather than healthy!

They say "healthy" in their "advice", you can be both.

The WHO as a sound authority on this pandemic is finished, at least at the top.

They have turned into FIFA.

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:49AM

Boggles wrote: »

They say "healthy" in their "advice".

The WHO as a sound authority on this pandemic is finished, at least at the top.

Lots of things to be scrutinised after all of this is finished, it has exposed so many systemic issues worldwide.

is_that_so · 23-05-2020 10:53AM

Piece on HIQA report into nursing home preparedness for infections from 2018.

Almost one in five nursing homes inspected for infection control in 2018 were not complying with rules to prevent and control the spread of infections, a regulatory report shows.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/one-in-five-inspected-nursing-homes-ignored-infection-control-rules-in-2018-1.4260183

owlbethere · 23-05-2020 11:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Simon Harris for real? He tells the Irish Times that he is considering mandatory quarantine in a state facility for all arrivals, when most of our EU peers are starting the process of opening up their border? Craziness!!

I know it will never happen but just to suggest that it is being considered makes him appear reckless

Quarantine for arrivals absolutely has to happen and how it hasn't been implemented to date I will never know. The population is too busy watching their neighbours and turning on their neighbours instead of holding the government to account for their incompetence. Our covid19 cases started off from travel cases. It will be impossible to fully practice social distancing in airports, in departure lounges, on planes etc. Risk of infections would be high from travelling. Trusting the population to do the right thing coming in off a flight, go home and self isolate for a 14 days was stupidity of the highest order. People won't isolate coming home from the airport when they need to stop at the shops and buy milk for a cup of tea.

The quarantine for arrivals has to happen, within reason too. I don't know how they will manage it for airport and flight staff. How do other countries manage it?

PokeHerKing · 23-05-2020 11:12AM

How are people still arguing the toss about masks!! Christ. Why do you think you cover your mouth when you sneeze/cough? To stop your germs going everywhere!

A mask is a constant hand cover that doesn't touch every surface it meets.

Some people literally cannot go back on the original piece of info they heard.

stephenjmcd · 23-05-2020 11:18AM

owlbethere wrote: »

Quarantine for arrivals absolutely has to happen and how it hasn't been implemented to date I will never know. The population is too busy watching their neighbours and turning on their neighbours instead of holding the government to account for their incompetence. Our covid19 cases started off from travel cases. It will be impossible to fully practice social distancing in airports, in departure lounges, on planes etc. Risk of infections would be high from travelling. Trusting the population to do the right thing coming in off a flight, go home and self isolate for a 14 days was stupidity of the highest order. People won't isolate coming home from the airport when they need to stop at the shops and buy milk for a cup of tea.

The quarantine for arrivals has to happen, within reason too. I don't know how they will manage it for airport and flight staff. How do other countries manage it?

Other countries in europe aren't doing it. Harris said they're looking into the legal issues around it, as France and Greece found out the EU aren't exactly welcoming of the idea hence those two had to quickly drop their plans.

It wont happen here quite simply because Brussels wont allow it for travel within the EU bloc. Do you actually think they wouldn't step in when every other country is removing barriers to entry and we would be looking to impose them ? Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

Boggles · 23-05-2020 11:19AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Lots of things to be scrutinised after all of this is finished, it has exposed so many systemic issues worldwide.

You don't have to wait. You can scrutinize now.

The majority of Western powers are largely ignoring them and their "advice".

plodder · 23-05-2020 11:20AM

Virus ‘does not spread easily’ from contaminated surfaces or animals, revised CDC website states

We have to adapt our plans to developments like this, which should simplify many aspects of re-opening workplaces.

As regards people arriving from abroad, it's a bit Irish that we've been so half-hearted about it up to now (allowing people to put vague locations like "County Kerry"), yet now we are contemplating basically imprisoning people. Surely, there is something better in between - like requiring hard evidence of where you are staying, and actually following up.

23-05-2020 11:29AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Here you go but then again you knew that.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/409903O/respiratory-protection-against-biohazards.pdf

Not all masks are respirators.

normanoffside · 23-05-2020 11:47AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Listening to RTE news, Ministers are urging the government to adopt the WHO guidelines of 1m for social distancing instead of 2m.

Leo says he will discuss it with Chairman Holohan to see if this can be adapted.

Who exactly is the Taoiseach?

I see Leo has a very quick answer on this.
Sorry Lads, Ignore WHO recommendations on this one; Chairman Holohan say's no.
We have to defer to him, he is our supreme leader.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0523/1140142-two-metres/

smurgen · 23-05-2020 11:55AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Other countries in europe aren't doing it. Harris said they're looking into the legal issues around it, as France and Greece found out the EU aren't exactly welcoming of the idea hence those two had to quickly drop their plans.

It wont happen here quite simply because Brussels wont allow it for travel within the EU bloc. Do you actually think they wouldn't step in when every other country is removing barriers to entry and we would be looking to impose them ? Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

What crap is this? Slovenia completely shut it's airports they are an EU state. Sounds like Harris is using the EU as some vague excuse to not make decisions.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/aviation/short_news/slovenia-to-shut-down-its-air-traffic-from-tuesday-over-coronavirus/

owlbethere · 23-05-2020 12:00PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Other countries in europe aren't doing it. Harris said they're looking into the legal issues around it, as France and Greece found out the EU aren't exactly welcoming of the idea hence those two had to quickly drop their plans.

It wont happen here quite simply because Brussels wont allow it for travel within the EU bloc. Do you actually think they wouldn't step in when every other country is removing barriers to entry and we would be looking to impose them ? Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

That's ridiculous. Australia is broken up into different states like Victoria, New South Wales, Queens land, Northern Terrority and Australia implemented travel restrictions between the states. I think people travelling between the states have to show its for essential reasons and not for pleasure. Something like that anyways.

Has the EU implemented 'essential travel only' guidelines between the countries and that would go a long way in helping to control the spread of this disease from importing and exporting the disease.

Aside from that, quarantine for arrivals outside of the eu has to happen.

ZX7R · 23-05-2020 12:05PM

smurgen wrote: »

What crap is this? Slovenia completely shut it's airports they are an EU state. Sounds like Harris is using the EU as some vague excuse to not make decisions.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/aviation/short_news/slovenia-to-shut-down-its-air-traffic-from-tuesday-over-coronavirus/

They have been open to international travel since the 15th of May.
The same day they ended there emergency.

Away With The Fairies · 23-05-2020 12:06PM

plodder wrote: »

Virus ‘does not spread easily’ from contaminated surfaces or animals, revised CDC website states

We have to adapt our plans to developments like this, which should simplify many aspects of re-opening workplaces.

As regards people arriving from abroad, it's a bit Irish that we've been so half-hearted about it up to now (allowing people to put vague locations like "County Kerry"), yet now we are contemplating basically imprisoning people. Surely, there is something better in between - like requiring hard evidence of where you are staying, and actually following up.

So how is this spreading? Respiratory droplets? Let's reduce the safe distance and no need for masks.

stephenjmcd · 23-05-2020 12:10PM

smurgen wrote: »

What crap is this? Slovenia completely shut it's airports they are an EU state. Sounds like Harris is using the EU as some vague excuse to not make decisions.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/aviation/short_news/slovenia-to-shut-down-its-air-traffic-from-tuesday-over-coronavirus/

Difference between shutting your airports down, they've land borders that can still be crossed, we don't have that, bar the NI border which is non existent anyway.

If we had a land border within the EU I'd say they'd have shut down the airports because technically theres nothing to stop movement over land just by air. Easier to control and I'd imagine given theres still an available route by land that would have been fine for the EU to accept.

They've also reopened borders now.

Jim_Hodge · 23-05-2020 12:13PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Here you go but then again you knew that.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/409903O/respiratory-protection-against-biohazards.pdf

What has a piece from manufacturers of respirators that states they "may" be effective have to do with masks or face coverings?

ACitizenErased · 23-05-2020 12:22PM

A lot of people are becoming a bit uneasy about the governments approach to this. Asking, why are we different from other EU countries? Why are we being so much slower? I have been fairly positive on here all along but I’m starting to agree.

This screams of a “we ****ed up and must make sure it doesn’t happen again”.

joe40 · 23-05-2020 12:32PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

A lot of people are becoming a bit uneasy about the governments approach to this. Asking, why are we different from other EU countries? Why are we being so much slower? I have been fairly positive on here all along but I’m starting to agree.

This screams of a “we ****ed up and must make sure it doesn’t happen again”.

Yeah I tend to agree. I fully supported the measures introduced, and complied.
But I do think we need to closely watch how other countries are coming out of this and learn from them.
Maybe we could speed up our exit strategy. I think the vast majority (not all) will practice hand cleaning and social distancing for some time to come

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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