Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

ZX7R · 22-05-2020 10:12PM

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Just wondering, do the nurses still have time to rehearse their dance routines?

Interestingly you mentioned that
Facebook seems to have returned to the usual crap of every second post of a missing person

Wibbs · 22-05-2020 10:19PM

hmmm wrote: »

Oh great, mask wearers could be shooting out streams of virus laden particles?

No, it's more supposition in societies that have a cultural resistance to masks. The Asian studies have all found masks protective up to strongly protective and they have experience of this since SARS, never mind the flu variants tend to hit them first, and who are in the top places in the world with the lowest numbers of infected and dead? Hint: it ain't the West. One of the first things the Chinese doctors said to the visiting WHO delegation was "Why the hell aren't you wearing masks?" And promptly outfitted them. Never mind these jetstreams of viral laden particles seem to magically vanish when used in clinical settings.

This is why we need proper scientific studies and not "common sense".

They already exist. Loads of them.

TBH I've had my fill of a large chunk of experts. The British were screwed by them and we've had a long list of howlers from our local so called "experts". "Asymptomatic spread is no issue and very low risk, be grand". The CMO of Ireland tries to reopen care homes containing the demographic that are the single most vulnerable to this virus than any other and by a helluva margin. That would be like the top veterinary bod in Ireland saying "reopen cattle farms" in the middle of a foot and mouth epidemic. Moronic. Criminally so. Now we have quarantine on the go, at least three months after it might have done some bloody good. You really couldn't make this level of idiocy and incompetence up, yet our authorities managed it with flying colours. Don't get me started on the 5k rule. Going by their previous timeline, we'll have proper border controls sometime in June, proper contact tracing by July, masks by August and hospitals dealing with the chronically and seriously ill opened back up by September.

Arghus · 22-05-2020 10:22PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes, the biggest lesson we've learned from this is how stupid the people we vote for are.

We get the politicians we deserve.

Wibbs · 22-05-2020 10:22PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes, and while it suited us to take WHO advice in March and get patted on the head for it, we now have refused to move with their advice and go with our own CMO who is still stuck 2 months in the past.

I think we are really suffering now from lack of a government and nobody willing to take any leadership.

And the other political parties that crowed about how much better they'd be in leadership for this country are strangely silent. Cowards and looking to how they'll politic their way in a coalition after the dust has settled, and more their taxpayer pensions. Useless bunch of parish pump bumpkins the lot of them.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 10:32PM

And the other political parties that crowed about how much better they'd be in leadership for this country are strangely silent.

This weird silence amplifies the disorientation we're experiencing. One day SF are competing for government and gaining ground, then before you know it they've evaporated into the ether and NPHET - Ireland's answer to the Directory - are telling the Government what they're prepared to allow and what they forbid.

(Please no replies along the lines of 'Its for the public health', 'There's a pandemic going on dummy!' thanks)

peasant · 22-05-2020 10:33PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Listening to RTE news, Ministers are urging the government to adopt the WHO guidelines of 1m for social distancing instead of 2m.

1 meter is just over an arms length.
Other than crowds or even throngs of people that's basically the standard distance that Irish people (and other non-huggy or non-overpopulated nations) keep from each other.

Calling it "social distancing" is a bit of a joke in that context.

plodder · 22-05-2020 10:42PM

peasant wrote: »

1 meter is just over an arms length.
Other than crowds or even throngs of people that's basically the standard distance that Irish people (and other non-huggy or non-overpopulated nations) keep from each other.

Calling it "social distancing" is a bit of a joke in that context.

Is it not a good thing that it might not have to be so hard? Or do we have to endure suffering for its own sake?

PTH2009 · 22-05-2020 10:43PM

Optimism rising

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 10:44PM

Wibbs wrote: »

And the other political parties that crowed about how much better they'd be in leadership for this country are strangely silent. Cowards and looking to how they'll politic their way in a coalition after the dust has settled, and more their taxpayer pensions. Useless bunch of parish pump bumpkins the lot of them.

Exactly, They are all cowering for fear of making a mistake and deferring all leadership to Chairman Holohan. Nobody wants to take any power until it has all passed at which stage they will be able to blame someone else.

Eod100 · 22-05-2020 10:46PM

peasant wrote: »

1 meter is just over an arms length.
Other than crowds or even throngs of people that's basically the standard distance that Irish people (and other non-huggy or non-overpopulated nations) keep from each other.

Calling it "social distancing" is a bit of a joke in that context.

Still has implications for businesses and pubs and restaurants though. And of course impact on crowds would affect organising of gigs and matches too

Jim_Hodge · 22-05-2020 10:47PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the Taoiseach is a dictator, quite the opposite; he is deferring those duties to the CMO and refusing to take any leadership himself.

That's not what I said. You want him to be more like a dictator but the Taoiseach ( as in the position, not specifically Leo) is one where advice and counsel are sought and weighed up.
He's doing things as they should be done by listening to all sides of advice and moving as current thinking or evidence suggests.

peasant · 22-05-2020 10:52PM

plodder wrote: »

Is it not a good thing that it might not have to be so hard? Or do we have to endure suffering for its own sake?

When something that is supposed to make people watch out and be careful. ie. "social distancing" looks pretty much exactly like what we did before this all happened, then it won't work.
People will forget to be careful.

It's already happening now.
I was out in a Supervalue earlier and except for markings on the floor that everybody ignored and perspex at the checkout, people moved through the shop like before.

Tell them that our normal personal space is now called "social distancing" and you can forget about any caution at all.

Btw ...being cautious and responsible does not equal suffering.

bekker · 22-05-2020 10:53PM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Wonder would the cold working environment with fridges have anything to do with it?

Would probably help droplets remain coherent for longer thereby depositing greater viral load on contacting a surface, conversely heavier droplets would not remain airborne for as long restricting spread distance.

Think I saw some confirmatory indications in a report looking into correlations between atmospheric conditions and COVID-19 impact.

BorneTobyWilde · 22-05-2020 10:53PM

SO many outlets jumped multiple phases and reopened on phase 1, 18th May. Ice-Cream shops and cafes are not hardware stores, but boom on the 18th they opened.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 10:58PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

SO many outlets jumped multiple phases and reopened on phase 1, 18th May. Ice-Cream shops and cafes are not hardware stores, but boom on the 18th they opened.

There were ice cream outlets on Grafton Street (Dub) open prior to 18th May.

A way to demonstrate distancing is being followed + balls will get you quite far I imagine.

I haven't heard of many forcible closures. A pub in Rathkeale was threatened with closure. Then a pub in Donegal was prevented from offering take-out pints.

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 11:00PM

peasant wrote: »

1 meter is just over an arms length.
Other than crowds or even throngs of people that's basically the standard distance that Irish people (and other non-huggy or non-overpopulated nations) keep from each other.

Calling it "social distancing" is a bit of a joke in that context.

WHO told us to keep the borders open. We said 'yes sir' and told everyone that the WHO told us so.

WHO told us to test and contract trace. We said 'Yes sir' and told everyone we would do that because the WHO said we should. We'd be able to test 15,000 per day by April.

WHO told us to social distance by 2 metres so we told the population to do that and then sneered at them if they didn't

We didn't have adequate PPE in the country despite being asked by the European Commission in January if we needed help, but we said 'we're grand'

We couldn't test and trace because the measures weren't in place and the disease had spread to widely due to keeping the borders open so we bluffed for 2 months until we had adequate testing and instead blamed people for going outside.

Going down the line

WHO told us it's not necessary to socially distance by 2m, rather 1m is fine; now we don't follow their advice anymore..

Meanwhile other countries who took WHO advice on board, applied their own common sense to it, planned well in advance, ignored it when it suited then (and did their own studies as well) are having much better results and are opening up safely.

We are absolutely a country lacking leadership and good policy.

We shouldn't keep comparing ourselves to the Basket cases of the UK and The USA, we should at least be able to do as well as Slovenia and Slovakia never mind Denmark and Iceland.

bekker · 22-05-2020 11:01PM

hmmm wrote: »

Oh great, mask wearers could be shooting out streams of virus laden particles?

This is why we need proper scientific studies and not "common sense".

So that's your conclusion based on a laboratory experiment in Edinburgh using one subject?

That's why when we override common sense we generally do so based on rigorous scientific experiment, not half-assed messing about by a couple of individuals in a lab.

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 11:02PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That's not what I said. You want him to be more like a dictator but the Taoiseach ( as in the position, not specifically Leo) is one where advice and counsel are sought and weighed up.
He's doing things as they should be done by listening to all sides of advice and moving as current thinking or evidence suggests.

No he's not. He started off deferring everything to the WHO and now he is refusing to listen to them.

Arghus · 22-05-2020 11:02PM

peasant wrote: »

When something that is supposed to make people watch out and be careful. ie. "social distancing" looks pretty much exactly like what we did before this all happened, then it won't work.
People will forget to be careful.

It's already happening now.
I was out in a Supervalue earlier and except for markings on the floor that everybody ignored and perspex at the checkout, people moved through the shop like before.

Tell them that our normal personal space is now called "social distancing" and you can forget about any caution at all.

Btw ...being cautious and responsible does not equal suffering.

Was working today in a similar place. Basically social distancing isn't happening anymore.

People here who rail night and day against restrictions have a shockingly naive belief that social distancing will see us through. Maybe if people in general actually practiced it, yes, but it's fairly close to non existent in many settings now.

10000maniacs · 22-05-2020 11:04PM

The big news in the UK is Dominic Cummings and his wife travelled to his parents house and left their kid with his parents who are in their 70's while they both had the COVID19 in March. Reckless stupid behavior.

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 11:08PM

Michael Martin on the LLS is not exactly inspiring any confidence that anything will change.

plodder · 22-05-2020 11:12PM

peasant wrote: »

When something that is supposed to make people watch out and be careful. ie. "social distancing" looks pretty much exactly like what we did before this all happened, then it won't work.
People will forget to be careful.

It's already happening now.
I was out in a Supervalue earlier and except for markings on the floor that everybody ignored and perspex at the checkout, people moved through the shop like before.

Tell them that our normal personal space is now called "social distancing" and you can forget about any caution at all.

Btw ...being cautious and responsible does not equal suffering.

If one metre of space is enough, and the fact that Irish people tend to keep that level of distance anyway, then demanding more than that, sounds like suffering to me.

Clearly, crowded pubs are still out of the question in this situation, but maybe other aspects of normal life are possible,

hotmail.com · 22-05-2020 11:26PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

The big news in the UK is Dominic Cummings and his wife travelled to his parents house and left their kid with his parents who are in their 70's while they both had the COVID19 in March. Reckless stupid behavior.

Big news for who?

hotmail.com · 22-05-2020 11:27PM

Social distancing is over. Corona is over.

peasant · 22-05-2020 11:28PM

plodder wrote: »

If one metre of space is enough, and the fact that Irish people tend to keep that level of distance anyway, then demanding more than that, sounds like suffering to me.

Clearly, crowded pubs are still out of the question in this situation, but maybe other aspects of normal life are possible,

Social distancing isn't really about the distance..whether it's 1 m, 1.5 or 2 ...that's basically just arbitrary.

What it is about is attitude.

I too think that (nearly) normal life is possible ...if and only if everybody has a cautious and responsible attitude.
That attitude was around for a few weeks, it has almost disappeared as of late.
If you make the "old normal" the "new normal" (with a few glaringly obvious exceptions like full on throngs) that attitude will be lost.

I think that for Ireland social distancing has to stay at a distance that makes it clear to the meanest understanding that we don't live in normal times ..not until the virus is gone or under control via a vaccine.

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 11:30PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That's not what I said. You want him to be more like a dictator but the Taoiseach ( as in the position, not specifically Leo) is one where advice and counsel are sought and weighed up.
He's doing things as they should be done by listening to all sides of advice and moving as current thinking or evidence suggests.

Every European country that took the WHO advice on board but yet made their own local decisions at the same time has done better than us.

Forgetting Italy and Spain (who unfortunately got hammered before they had a chance to react), most mainland European countries started travel and quarantine restrictions long before the WHO advised them to.

Most of those countries had adequate testing equipment protocols and PPE in place in advance of their surges.
Almost all of those countries have already opened up long in advance of us, yet instead of taking advice and guidance from other countries we blindly look at a failed CMO who refuses to take example from other countries.
He defers to the WHO when it suits him and ignores them when it doesn't.
Our politicians take his word as gospel despite his unscrupulous and incompetent past.

Wibbs · 22-05-2020 11:33PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Our politicians take his word as gospel despite his unscrupulous and incompetent past so they can have someone, anyone to blame, but themselves. We were only following orders...

With your indulgence N, I changed your post slightly.

plodder · 22-05-2020 11:45PM

peasant wrote: »

Social distancing isn't really about the distance..whether it's 1 m, 1.5 or 2 ...that's basically just arbitrary.

What it is about is attitude.

I too think that (nearly) normal life is possible ...if and only if everybody has a cautious and responsible attitude.
That attitude was around for a few weeks, it has almost disappeared as of late.
If you make the "old normal" the "new normal" (with a few glaringly obvious exceptions like full on throngs) that attitude will be lost.

I think that for Ireland social distancing has to stay at a distance that makes it clear to the meanest understanding that we don't live in normal times ..not until the virus is gone or under control via a vaccine.

I don't disagree entirely. The trouble is where I am living (in a quiet rural area) I'm mostly seeing my own neighbours doing the right thing, but at the same time I don't accept a lot of the popular criticism of people elsewhere. Yes, there will always be a cohort who ignore the restrictions but when I head into town to the supermarket, I'm seeing people doing their best. They are standing back, though yes they have to pass each other within less than 2 metres. Maybe supermarkets could do more with that (if it is really necessary), but I was standing in a queue for a shop the other day and I heard a woman sneeze. It was the first time I had heard one in a couple of months literally. Most people are doing what they need to do, and that is being reflected in the reducing level of cases imo.

normanoffside · 22-05-2020 11:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

With your indulgence N, I changed your post slightly.

Introducing quarantine regulations 3 months after the fact is the most galling of all to be honest.
Following the UK policy is ludicrous.

Let's blame the foreigners even though they are infinitely less likely to bring the disease into our countries than we have of bringing it into theirs.

normanoffside · 23-05-2020 12:01AM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That's not what I said. You want him to be more like a dictator but the Taoiseach ( as in the position, not specifically Leo) is one where advice and counsel are sought and weighed up.
He's doing things as they should be done by listening to all sides of advice and moving as current thinking or evidence suggests.

No, I just want someone to take power rather than referring to some risk adverse CMO.

I said it before in another thread but I will say it again. Tony Holohan is literally a poker player holding a Full House in his hand but keeps 'checking' instead of betting because he is afraid someone else might have a Royal Flush.

At some stage someone needs to overrule him and take the minuscule chance that we are actually winning.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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