Masks

weldoninhio · 22-05-2020 06:54PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

McGiver wrote: »

They never had any stance. They defer this issue to "decision makers".

If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

WHEN and how TO USE MASKS. Jesus wept. It’s literally on their website.

weldoninhio · 22-05-2020 06:56PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Seanergy wrote: »

More screengrabs from above publication. It's worth reading in full.

We aren’t talking about a flu pandemic. Covid-19 is not a flu.

Markomlm · 22-05-2020 07:05PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

McGiver wrote: »

This is not a matter of personal choice.

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

Away With The Fairies · 22-05-2020 07:06PM

Yes: valved

weldoninhio wrote: »

We aren’t talking about a flu pandemic. Covid-19 is not a flu.

Both viruses though and both can be spread via respiratory droplets.

Stark · 22-05-2020 07:06PM

No: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

We aren’t talking about a flu pandemic. Covid-19 is not a flu.

Oh Ffs :rolleyes: it's a viral respiratory disease that spreads through droplets. Same ****ing difference in this scenario.

Funny how people are quick enough to compare it to flu when it comes to scaremongering about how it will match Spanish flu wave for wave, mutation for mutation.

Stark · 22-05-2020 07:08PM

No: other

Markomlm wrote: »

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

Are we not living in one already with the lockdown? Wearing a face mask is far preferable to our current situation IMO.

And no society allows total freedom to infect others with whatever infectious disease you might be carrying.

Boggles · 22-05-2020 07:39PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

We aren’t talking about a flu pandemic. Covid-19 is not a flu.

Yes, it's the only respiratory disease that has ever existed that is transmitted exclusively anally.

Seanergy · 22-05-2020 07:40PM

Yes: valved

Markomlm wrote: »

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

Incase you haven't noticed the iron curtain you speak of has been down for the the past 8 weeks sir.

Absolutely nobody in this thread is referrring to facecoverings as impenetratable sir.

Wibbs · 22-05-2020 09:02PM

Yes: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

We aren’t talking about a flu pandemic. Covid-19 is not a flu.

Eh...

Markomlm wrote: »

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

"Totalitarian regime"? Jesus, does the light attract them or something? Talk about hysterics and hyperbole.

Ardillaun · 22-05-2020 09:10PM

Yes: homemade

The evidence is accumulating that masks cut down on COVID-19 transmission. I wear them to protect myself and others. At first it seems strange but you get used to it. At the very least, it's basic good manners to wear one in a shop - the staff have enough to worry about without me spluttering all over them.

Arrival · 22-05-2020 10:12PM

Some people just do not think

The lockdown was implemented to slow the spreading of the virus

Mandatory masks, at least indoors, help slow the spreading of the virus

The lockdown has people under house arrest, restricted from visiting family and friends, but people respect and adhere to this measure

Masks allow people to still carry on relatively normal lives and actually get to meet family and friends, but people disregard and feel personally offended at the idea of implementing this measure

Yet introducing mandatory masks is the straw that breaks the camels back and equals a totalitarian regime for some people? Not the lockdown? Well done, good effort

Seanergy · 22-05-2020 11:51PM

Yes: valved

Jasus, Just being reading the Irish National Plan for Pandemic Influenza January 2007, holy crap. It's obsessed with hand washing but not facemasks, droplet spread was considered just for sneezing and coughing back then, nothing a tissue wouldn't fix.

Anyway, I have created a table of the 2019 Summary of Recommendations by the WHO for non pharmaceutical public health measures for mitigating the risk and impact of epidemic and pandemic influenza, which I provided a link to earlier. Seems Ireland is still using it's non pharmaceutical Intervention (NPI) playbook from 2007/2008 era, which was created on the back of the WHO playbook from 2004/2005.

My point in recreating this table is to highlight that quality of evidence is not just moderate for hand hygiene but also face mask measures. All other remaining measures have very low or no quality of evidence. Therefore the argument used by the State for the past 8 weeks that there is no scientific evidence was nothing short of a fabrication. Also, they have enabled nearly all the other measures even though those measures did not have the same quality of evidence.

Target audience: This guideline is intended to support the development and updating of national plans for mitigating influenza epidemics and pandemics in community settings. The recommendations included in this guideline will also be of interest to members of boards.ie, individuals, organizations, institutions and local health authorities.

The recommendations are based on the quality of evidence and on other indicators such as values and preferences, balance of benefits and harms, resource implications, acceptability, feasibility and ethical considerations.

Summary of Recommendations by the WHO NPI

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-21.10.47-e1590183142378.png

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-21.10.47-e1590183142378.png

It seems Ireland's decision to pushout mask uptake happened way back in 2008. They certainly didn't realise back then that the cost of keeping the poplulation in masks would be the cheaper and easier solution to shutting down the economy.

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-22.07.46-e1590183238699.png

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-22.07.46-e1590183238699.png

I have no trust in the actions of the Minister for Health, the State, NPHET, the HSE with regard to mask policy.

WHO: outbreak communication guidelines 2005

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-23.20.57-e1590186213682.png

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-23.20.57-e1590186213682.png

For trust to be restored, transparency is needed and the all of the bodies mentioned above need to talk with the public not to the public as outlined in chapter 7 of the HSE playbook(scrnshot below).

Screenshot below from chapter 7 Pandemic Influenza Preparedness for Ireland: Advice of the Pandemic Influenza Expert Group:

Screen-Shot-2020-05-22-at-23.25.59.png

Vestiapx · 22-05-2020 11:58PM

I had to bring the son to the hospital today.
Gp wanted us to wear masks
Er wanted us to wear masks

McGiver · 23-05-2020 08:45AM

No: I don't care enough

Markomlm wrote: »

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

You lost the argument pal if you say things like this. Norway, Czechia, Austria, India, Korea, Taiwan, Canada... Are all totalitarian regimes right.

Back to rational discussion.

We have presented very many publications, expert opinions, expert organisations' opinions and case studies from several countries. Which you simply ignore and come back with irrational arguments instead.

McGiver · 23-05-2020 09:09AM

No: I don't care enough

Seanergy wrote: »

Jasus, Just being reading the Irish National Plan for Pandemic Influenza January 2007, holy crap. It's obsessed with hand washing but not facemasks, droplet spread was considered just for sneezing and coughing back then, nothing a tissue wouldn't fix.

Anyway, I have created a table of the 2019 Summary of Recommendations by the WHO for non pharmaceutical public health measures for mitigating the risk and impact of epidemic and pandemic influenza, which I provided a link to earlier. Seems Ireland is still using it's non pharmaceutical Intervention (NPI) playbook from 2007/2008 era, which was created on the back of the WHO playbook from 2004/2005.

My point in recreating this table is to highlight that quality of evidence is not just moderate for hand hygiene but also face mask measures. All other remaining measures have very low or no quality of evidence. Therefore the argument used by the State for the past 8 weeks that there is no scientific evidence was nothing short of a fabrication. Also, they have enabled nearly all the other measures even though those measures did not have the same quality of evidence.

Target audience: This guideline is intended to support the development and updating of national plans for mitigating influenza epidemics and pandemics in community settings. The recommendations included in this guideline will also be of interest to members of boards.ie, individuals, organizations, institutions and local health authorities.

The recommendations are based on the quality of evidence and on other indicators such as values and preferences, balance of benefits and harms, resource implications, acceptability, feasibility and ethical considerations.

Summary of Recommendations by the WHO NPI

It seems Ireland's decision to pushout mask uptake happened way back in 2008. They certainly didn't realise back then that the cost of keeping the poplulation in masks would be the cheaper and easier solution to shutting down the economy.

I have no trust in the actions of the Minister for Health, the State, NPHET, the HSE with regard to mask policy.

WHO: outbreak communication guidelines 2005

For trust to be restored, transparency is needed and the all of the bodies mentioned above need to talk with the public not to the public as outlined in chapter 7 of the HSE playbook(scrnshot below).

Screenshot below from chapter 7 Pandemic Influenza Preparedness for Ireland: Advice of the Pandemic Influenza Expert Group:

Liars. And clowns. No other words for this. But as always the core issue is incompetence. That's why the HSE is where it is, one of the worst health care services in Western, Northern and central Europe by several indicators.

Thanks for investigating this.

You see, the media should do this and call the clowns out. But they don't, they've failed equally. They just talk nonsense, fawning to the government, there's little to no critique of the government's performance or policies.

This government is not able to decently govern, judging by European peers' standards.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid we'll be talking about this for the rest of the year, it's inevitable

I'm sorry for all people who lost their friends or family members, I'm sorry for all people who lost their jobs, I'm sorry for all people who lost their business... All due to lack of pragmatic policies and lack of quick response of the government. It didn't have to happen.

McGiver · 23-05-2020 09:21AM

No: I don't care enough

Arrival wrote: »

Some people just do not think

The lockdown was implemented to slow the spreading of the virus

Mandatory masks, at least indoors, help slow the spreading of the virus

The lockdown has people under house arrest, restricted from visiting family and friends, but people respect and adhere to this measure

Masks allow people to still carry on relatively normal lives and actually get to meet family and friends, but people disregard and feel personally offended at the idea of implementing this measure

Yet introducing mandatory masks is the straw that breaks the camels back and equals a totalitarian regime for some people? Not the lockdown? Well done, good effort

I wanted to say this to the pal there shouting about liberty and totalitarian regime.

We've already had a totalitarian regime! We have it now! Shutting down the whole economy? House arrest for months? What else is that than severe restriction of liberty by the state?

And telling people to cover their gob to prevent spreading a deadly pathogen is totalitarian?
Give me a break.

McGiver · 23-05-2020 09:23AM

No: I don't care enough

weldoninhio wrote: »

I didn’t cite any Irish experts predicting the future. I used real world evidence that is currently happening in Denmark.

Anyone that disagrees with me is a troll #yawn.

Link?

No - anyone who disagrees with the consensus and huge body of the evidence is a troll.

Jim_Hodge · 23-05-2020 09:47AM

Yes: homemade

Markomlm wrote: »

Perhaps you would prefer we adopt a more totalitarian regime where all personal freedoms are quashed and we act in blind obedience to the state? Masks are not some kind of impenetrable iron curtain sir, you seriously need to get some perspective.

Would you give over. Totalitarian regime my eye. We all every day do, or don't do, things laid down as laws, rules or regulations within society. Is the compulsory wearing of seatbelts an affront to your personal freedom too?

cnocbui · 23-05-2020 11:35AM

McGiver wrote: »

Link?

No - anyone who disagrees with the consensus and huge body of the evidence is a troll.

People who thought the Earth was spherical were all Trolls once. Copernicus and Galileo were Trolls. Some people don't believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming.

Ridiculous to label a Nobel Prize winning Physicist a Troll. Trolls advance science and the species.

Dr. Ivar Giaever, a former professor with Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the 1973 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics, abruptly announced his resignation Tuesday, Sept. 13, from the premier physics society in disgust over its officially stated policy that "global warming is occurring."

weldoninhio · 23-05-2020 02:56PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

McGiver wrote: »

Link?

No - anyone who disagrees with the consensus and huge body of the evidence is a troll.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/2nd-covid-19-wave-very-unlikely-in-denmark-expert-says

Ireland’s R0 is already well below Denmark’s. Currently R0.4. We need to stop the lockdown now.

Markomlm · 23-05-2020 04:48PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

McGiver wrote: »

Link?

No - anyone who disagrees with the consensus and huge body of the evidence is a troll.

Do you have like shares in a mask manufacturing company or something?

0lddog · 23-05-2020 08:56PM

https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/wear-mask-new-york-ad-contest-cast-your-vote

( link not suitable for anyone who wants to be a spreader )

MadYaker · 23-05-2020 10:19PM

Yes: surgical

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/2nd-covid-19-wave-very-unlikely-in-denmark-expert-says

Ireland’s R0 is already well below Denmark’s. Currently R0.4. We need to stop the lockdown now.

And what do you think will happen to that R0 if we "stop the lockdown now"

weldoninhio · 23-05-2020 11:59PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

MadYaker wrote: »

And what do you think will happen to that R0 if we "stop the lockdown now"

Well going by Denmarks example. Nothing.

Take out nursing homes, DP centres, Traveller and Roma clusters and Ireland has barely been touched by Covid-19. But you still have the chicken littles who believe the country would be decimated if not for “lockdown”.

MadYaker · 24-05-2020 01:08AM

Yes: surgical

So the virus is just magically going to stop? Thats reassuring.

Boggles · 24-05-2020 08:58AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Take out nursing homes, DP centres, Traveller and Roma clusters and Ireland has barely been touched by Covid-19. But you still have the chicken littles who believe the country would be decimated if not for “lockdown”.

Sure, if you forget about the 1600+ people who died and the 3000+ hospitalized then yeah we have completely aced it.

MrDavid1976 · 24-05-2020 09:42AM

Dunnes has 20 masks for 15 Euros. That seems reasonable.

Wibbs · 24-05-2020 10:06AM

Yes: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

Well going by Denmarks example. Nothing.

Take out nursing homes, DP centres, Traveller and Roma clusters and Ireland has barely been touched by Covid-19. But you still have the chicken littles who believe the country would be decimated if not for “lockdown”.

You do comprehend that the lockdown and our other (half) measures meant we got the current results we have, right? Oh and those numbers are not good at all given our existing advantageous factors. Barely been touched my arse. :rolleyes: We have notably higher infections and dead than those who did a good job at containing this virus. Yes there are plenty of stupid chicken littles, but there are also plenty of equally stupid naysayers.

Boggles · 24-05-2020 10:39AM

You do have to wonder about people who fail to see the parallel between restrictions and case numbers.

Sure look at our numbers, there was no need for "lockdown"

It's akin to a bee keeper going into a hive in full protective suit, saying "well I didn't get stung is there need for the suit?"

weldoninhio · 24-05-2020 01:13PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Boggles wrote: »

Sure, if you forget about the 1600+ people who died and the 3000+ hospitalized then yeah we have completely aced it.

1600+ died WITH Covid-19, not necessarily OF Covid-19. Over 60% of those deaths were in nursing homes. Over 91% of the totals deaths were over 65s. The most vulnerable of society, who were hung out to dry by the govt and Tony Holohan.

From the ages of 0-44, there were 17 deaths in three months. 17!! According to RTÉ, the average road traffic deaths in Ireland for 2020 is 16 PER MONTH!!! We shafted the economy for no reason. We should have coccooned the old and let the rest get on with it.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcases/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=COVID-19%20Insights%20Volume1%20WE%2015May2020

Masks

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