Circular Number: 0037/2020

Treppen · 22-05-2020 11:23am #1

Ok just thought I'd start this trying to be discrete to discourage stumbling in experts.

Link to document follows soon

Treppen · 22-05-2020 11:24am

Link attached

Treppen · 22-05-2020 11:47am

So here it is in all it's glory

25. Legal indemnity
As teachers and school leaders will be implementing the calculated grades process in schools on behalf of the Minister, arrangements have been put in place to extend a State indemnity to them and to the boards of management of their schools. The indemnity could be invoked where someone is sued in their own capacity (i.e. named in civil proceedings as an individual teacher, principal or board of management/ETB).

This indemnity will be subject to conditions around notification and cooperation with the State in defending any legal cases should they arise and will only be capable of being invoked where a person has acted bona fide, i.e. has made every reasonable effort to carry out their role in accordance with the guidance provided in this Guide and the relevant circular of the Department of Education and Skills..

My underlined parts of the Indemnity appear to suggest that it 100% wont cover a teacher on appeal, the department will decide if teachers are 'worthy' of indemnity.

Whereas the Union gave prior assurances that :

The professional judgement of the teacher may not be appealed.

https://www.asti.ie/news/faqs-on-state-examinations-2020-and-continuity-of-teaching-l/

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 22-05-2020 11:49am

Far as I can see this is really straightforward

Fill in Form A for each student, Form B for ranking each class you have, one for each level if more than one level in your class

Have your evidence and use your professional judgement to arrive at grades. Don't bunch grades, don't gravitate to multiples of 5/10 or grade boundaries. Use a decimal to differentiate between students on the same grade.

Have your meeting, double check everything, data input especially

Send documents on to principal, job done

Treppen · 22-05-2020 11:52am

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Far as I can see this is really straightforward

Fill in Form A for each student, Form B for ranking each class you have, one for each level if more than one level in your class

Have your evidence and use your professional judgement to arrive at grades. Don't bunch grades, don't gravitate to multiples of 5/10 or grade boundaries. Use a decimal to differentiate between students on the same grade.

Have your meeting, double check everything, data input especially

Send documents on to principal, job done

Ya as far as I can see there's nothing too different in the process than was originally suggested.

drake70 · 22-05-2020 1:14pm

Hi OP, I'm not a teacher.

Is this circular available to the public?

If not, you might get in trouble for posting it here

TheDriver · 22-05-2020 1:17pm

circulars are public once published

Treppen · 22-05-2020 2:05pm

drake70 wrote: »

Hi OP, I'm not a teacher.

Is this circular available to the public?

If not, you might get in trouble for posting it here

Thanks I've currently gone on the run now.

drake70 · 22-05-2020 2:28pm

Treppen wrote: »

Thanks I've currently gone on the run now.

:pac::pac::pac:

endacl · 22-05-2020 2:32pm

Treppen wrote: »

Thanks I've currently gone on the run now.

Gone on the run like a currant?

Random sample · 22-05-2020 4:40pm

https://www.asti.ie/news/astisecuresfullindemnity/

And we’re back in the game.

Treppen · 22-05-2020 4:47pm

All that pent up media hysteria and Union bashing will still need an outlet.

But Hooray ... First time the Union has the last word before the weekend. And it's positive too.

Treppen · 22-05-2020 5:26pm

Joe McHugh on Ivan Yeats on Newstalk now.
He sounds fair enough for an Education Minister!

km79 · 22-05-2020 5:30pm

Hope to wrap this up in time for our 3 months of holidays

km79 · 22-05-2020 5:32pm

4.55pm Friday evening

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-02-22.html

Treppen · 22-05-2020 5:33pm

km79 wrote: »

Hope to wrap this up in time for our 3 months of holidays

You might be thinking that alright buddy, but that ain't necessarily so.

km79 · 22-05-2020 5:34pm

Treppen wrote: »

You might be thinking that alright buddy, but that ain't necessarily so.

Not a notion

Blondini · 22-05-2020 5:58pm

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

History Queen · 22-05-2020 6:02pm

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

History Queen · 22-05-2020 6:09pm

TUI's latest statement:

https://www.tui.ie/news/vindication-of-tui-position-on-comprehensive-indemnity.13760.html

joebloggs32 · 22-05-2020 6:19pm

History Queen wrote: »

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

r93kaey5p2izun · 22-05-2020 6:20pm

History Queen wrote: »

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

We had been told the opposite. That we must keep all student related data until 7 years after they graduate, or until they are 25, whichever is the later.

History Queen · 22-05-2020 6:24pm

joebloggs32 wrote: »

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

km79 · 22-05-2020 6:25pm

joebloggs32 wrote: »

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

We were also told that due to GDPR
Their exams results are available on line

Funny how GDPR conveniently went away for the few months too.

km79 · 22-05-2020 6:25pm

History Queen wrote: »

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

We are moving completely this way next year too

km79 · 22-05-2020 6:27pm

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

Evidence refers to exam results like that. Also homework records , projects etc
ASTI have advised members to stick with published historical data only .i.e. Xmas , summer exams and so on

doc_17 · 22-05-2020 6:29pm

History Queen wrote: »

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

We buy our own. I’ll not be destroying it.

History Queen · 22-05-2020 6:32pm

doc_17 wrote: »

We buy our own. I’ll not be destroying it.

We have option of school provided folder with inserts or can provide our own if we wish.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 22-05-2020 6:43pm

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

Of course your record of their results count as evidence. Why wouldn’t they???
You recorded their results . That’s evidence.

The only evidence I have are the House exams and pre result on VSware....oh , and my utterly unquantifiable professional judgement.

I’ d actually pay for their copies now!!

You have plenty evidence. Relax.

km79 · 22-05-2020 7:24pm

“Mr McHugh conceded that the predictive grades system was not perfect and not his preferred method of assessment.

He said that further clarification may be needed in the weeks and months ahead”

Don’t like the sound of that !

mirrorwall14 · 22-05-2020 8:18pm

km79 wrote: »

“Mr McHugh conceded that the predictive grades system was not perfect and not his preferred method of assessment.

He said that further clarification may be needed in the weeks and months ahead”

Don’t like the sound of that !

Ah Jesus can they not just stop the open ended statements ffs.

I have pretty much only my vsware results and I think two class test records. That’ll have to do for evidence tbh!

Circular Number: 0037/2020

Comments