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Child Item

Circular Number: 0037/2020

Treppen

Ok just thought I'd start this trying to be discrete to discourage stumbling in experts.

Link to document follows soon

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Treppen

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

Your over thinking it, everything is evidence, it all goes to form your final 'calculation'.
There will be no court case where you have to submit physical evidence. Appeal will only be based on checking the numbers entered or the school past stats.

Treppen

History Queen wrote: »

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

That means you have to go to UK every year with a hammer and destroy their server.

ethical

Its laughable and rather sad looking at the TUI website with regards to Legal indemnity:

"Clarification in respect of all issues raised by the TUI is being provided."

So they jumped the gun and sold their members while the ASTI were more cautious....and guess who is getting the bad press over all this.....of course its the ASTI!
The TUI didnt question and ran to the media and had half a story! The fcukin Media did not even check the TUI wesite,if they did they would have seen the half baked effort.....that while they (TUI) were OK with it they had sought clarification from DEPT and this only came about because the ASTI played hard ball and got bad press in the process.The feckin TUI are a fcukin headline seeking dose and they feckin Media love them.The truth came about by way of the good work done by the ASTI and as posters know I do not give credit only when it is due and on this ocassion the ASTI has made a potential bad case much much better for their teachers and indeed all teachers with the full legal indemnity.

r93kaey5p2izun

So DES claim the indemnity has not changed. TUI support that claim. ASTI say necessary clear assurances and clarifications were provided today. I think they can all be telling truth. But I feel a lot happier thanks to the ASTI actions.

History Queen

amacca wrote: »

Im of the strong suspicion that they haven't been vindicated at all and if it wasnt for the ASTI seeking clarification there would have existed the possibility of teachers bearing some portion of legal costs if a legal action was taken against them.....

If that is the case it should be made clear and attempts to airbrush it with crefully chosen words like vindication should be seen for what they are.

I would be interested to hear what others more informed than me have to say however as I suppose I really dont know either.

Whereas I was leaning the other way, that the ASTI had misunderstood either the wording or the advice that they got on it and all has been explained/clarified for them today. I mean the wording hasn't changed from what was published yesterday, yet now they are happy.

Like I say the above was what I thought until another poster said the following on a different thread: (see attached screenshot). Now I'm not sure what to think.

amacca

Im of the strong suspicion that they haven't been vindicated at all and if it wasnt for the ASTI seeking clarification there would have existed the possibility of teachers bearing some portion of legal costs if a legal action was taken against them.....

If that is the case it should be made clear and attempts to airbrush it with crefully chosen words like vindication should be seen for what they are.

I would be interested to hear what others more informed than me have to say however as I suppose I really dont know either.

History Queen

amacca wrote: »

I note the use of the word vindication....does that mean that the TUI are claiming they were correct all along?...that the indemnity they had got was sufficient and the ASTis action wasn't needed?

or are they trying to avoid egg on their face?

My reading of it was the indemnity wasnt sufficient and the ASTI were right to fulfill their role and stand up for their members...

What do ye think?

I had the same thought process as you. I'm reslly not sure what to think.

amacca

History Queen wrote: »

TUI's latest statement:

https://www.tui.ie/news/vindication-of-tui-position-on-comprehensive-indemnity.13760.html

I note the use of the word vindication....does that mean that the TUI are claiming they were correct all along?...that the indemnity they had got was sufficient and the ASTis action wasn't needed?

or are they trying to avoid egg on their face?

My reading of it was the indemnity wasnt sufficient and the ASTI were right to fulfill their role and stand up for their members...

What do ye think?

I also noted this "In the course of the TUI’s ongoing engagement with the Department of Education and Skills regarding the use for this year (only) of a system of Calculated Grades, the Union sought and secured a number of specific protections for staff involved in the school-based generation of estimated marks." .....................notice the only is in brackets....I appreciate it perhaps may be necessary while covid is around but could this also be leaving the door slightly ajar for more of this craic going into the future?

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0522/1140111-cabinet-politics/

Fancy being a guinea pig in September ........

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

“Mr McHugh conceded that the predictive grades system was not perfect and not his preferred method of assessment.

He said that further clarification may be needed in the weeks and months ahead”

Don’t like the sound of that !

Ah Jesus can they not just stop the open ended statements ffs.

I have pretty much only my vsware results and I think two class test records. That’ll have to do for evidence tbh!

km79

“Mr McHugh conceded that the predictive grades system was not perfect and not his preferred method of assessment.

He said that further clarification may be needed in the weeks and months ahead”

Don’t like the sound of that !

6am7f9zxrsjvnb

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

Of course your record of their results count as evidence. Why wouldn’t they???
You recorded their results . That’s evidence.

The only evidence I have are the House exams and pre result on VSware....oh , and my utterly unquantifiable professional judgement.

I’ d actually pay for their copies now!!

You have plenty evidence. Relax.

History Queen

doc_17 wrote: »

We buy our own. I’ll not be destroying it.

We have option of school provided folder with inserts or can provide our own if we wish.

doc_17

History Queen wrote: »

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

We buy our own. I’ll not be destroying it.

km79

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

Evidence refers to exam results like that. Also homework records , projects etc
ASTI have advised members to stick with published historical data only .i.e. Xmas , summer exams and so on

km79

History Queen wrote: »

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

We are moving completely this way next year too

km79

joebloggs32 wrote: »

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

We were also told that due to GDPR
Their exams results are available on line

Funny how GDPR conveniently went away for the few months too.

History Queen

joebloggs32 wrote: »

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

ETB wide policy in our ETB. All teacher journals to be destroyed at end of school year or preferably not used at all. We do have VSWARE which has records of house exams/behaviour/attendance and homework.

r93kaey5p2izun

History Queen wrote: »

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

We had been told the opposite. That we must keep all student related data until 7 years after they graduate, or until they are 25, whichever is the later.

joebloggs32

History Queen wrote: »

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

What clown told ye to do that.

You should retain that information in a secure location, especially while they are students in your school. As professionals we need data to be able to gauge student progression. The leaving and juniocert does not take place in a single year.
People really have lost the run of themselves with GDPR. Once data is used appropriately and securely stored then there is no problem. Put it in your schools GDPR policy.

History Queen

TUI's latest statement:

https://www.tui.ie/news/vindication-of-tui-position-on-comprehensive-indemnity.13760.html

History Queen

Blondini wrote: »

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

No idea, also for the last few years we are asked to shred our journals at the end of the school year. Does that stand this year?

Blondini

I note the word 'evidence' makes 65 appearances in the document.

I still don't know if my record of results of assessments in my teacher journal qualify as evidence without the students' physical piece of work.

I would love clarity on this as it would have a significant impact on some individual grades.

Anybody got any insight on this

km79

Treppen wrote: »

You might be thinking that alright buddy, but that ain't necessarily so.

Not a notion

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

Hope to wrap this up in time for our 3 months of holidays

You might be thinking that alright buddy, but that ain't necessarily so.

km79

4.55pm Friday evening

https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2020-press-releases/PR20-02-22.html

km79

Hope to wrap this up in time for our 3 months of holidays

Treppen

Joe McHugh on Ivan Yeats on Newstalk now.
He sounds fair enough for an Education Minister!

Treppen

All that pent up media hysteria and Union bashing will still need an outlet.

But Hooray ... First time the Union has the last word before the weekend. And it's positive too.

Random sample

https://www.asti.ie/news/astisecuresfullindemnity/

And we’re back in the game.