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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #6512
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Did you look at the stats that were posted.....


    No you didn’t.


    And taking a sampling of 8000 people to determine something that has infected a few million is a bit dumb.

    Actually I did and as people have said before the death toll isn't 3-5% maybe you didn't spot it I said sample, I'm not saying that HSE is the whole planet. And judging by your idiotic comments about dentists, gp's and workers I'm not the dumb one.


  • #6513
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    I think his posts add a lot to the conversation. True mortality rate of the disease of 0.25% that has been unanimously agreed in this thread in the past does not warrant 30% unemployment or long term austerity.

    It warrants caution like washing hands, getting adequate PPE to hospitals and nursing homes and maintaining social distancing, but no other measures. Especially not forced 14 day quarantine, this is the sort of thing they do in North Korea.

    Interesting, havnt seen any agreement on that myself. But in this echo chamber of misinformation I guess that's totally possible it was unanimously agreed upon in this thead. Can you explain how the results of large scale antibody tests have shown that 1.2% of Spanish people who contracted the virus died then, nearly 1% of people in New York, and over 1% of people who contracted the virus in the Netherlands? Or is that distracting from your narrative.

    But by all means keep clinging onto the deeply flawed Santa Clara study et al where candidates were self selected or whatever other misleading information you'd like to confuse the discussion with


  • #6514
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Stark wrote: »
    There's plenty of selfish behaviour on display from a lot of people but I honestly don't think going for a one off isolated walk as a treat after 10 weeks of misery counts.

    If it was done chiefly for their own pleasure (as admitted), then, by definition, it was selfish. Fin.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival



  • #6515
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,630 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    vid36 wrote: »
    The mortality rate has to be determined but most experts estimate it to be at least 0.7% and possibly 1%

    Yet initially many would tell you it was around 5-6% mortality rate.


  • #6516
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Yet initially many would tell you it was around 5-6% mortality rate.

    And those people were idiots who's opinions have been long since discredited months ago. So can we stop bringing them up? They are almost as bad as the posters who still believe the IFR to be 0.1%. But the difference is these posters still believe it despite a wealth of widespread community antibody tests literally disproving them, at least the people who believed IFR to be 6% stopped blathering on about it after they were proven wrong.


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  • #6517
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    ixoy wrote: »
    And it's far more complex than that as it varies hugely based on age and medical condition as is quite evident from our own statistics. Even if 1% of people did die from it, that in no way means you've a 1% chance.

    The variance is massive alright

    In some countries its 20% for over 78 or 0.002% for under 28

    Its like saying dont go into the water you might be eaten by a Shark

    One is Shark Alley South Africa other Galway Bay Ireland

    They need to tackle this part


  • #6518
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Penfailed wrote: »
    If it was done chiefly for their own pleasure (as admitted), then, by definition, it was selfish. Fin.

    Well why else would someone go for a walk other than to enjoy it? You're taking the definition of the word selfish to breaking point with this logic. I had cornflakes for breakfast this morning, for my own pleasure. Was that selfish?


  • #6519
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Penfailed wrote: »
    If it was done chiefly for their own pleasure (as admitted), then, by definition, it was selfish. Fin.

    Rubbish.


  • #6520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    More harsh reality.

    "Ireland has one of the highest rates of Covid-19 deaths in care homes in world
    Some 62% of Covid-19 deaths in Ireland relate to care homes, report says"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-has-one-of-the-highest-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-in-care-homes-in-world-1.4260140

    Cocoon the elderly, give PPE to hospitals & nursing homes, open up the country and ban nursing home visitors until a vaccine is found or speed testing is implemented in nursing home receptions.

    And dont forget to open up the country, fast.

    Outside of nursing homes, Covid is almost a non event in Ireland. A few hundred deaths max. And even that is mainly people on the elderly side of elder.

    Its a tragedy that we allowed this to spread the way it has in nursing homes. And the case numbers and deaths might start to rise due to the clusters there.

    Tony H is lucky to still have a job after the cervical scandal and his criticism of nursing homes banning visitors in mid march. The man has blood on his hands.


  • #6521
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Interesting, havnt seen any agreement on that myself. Can you explain how the results of large scale antibody tests have shown that 1.2% of Spanish people who contracted the virus died then, nearly 1% of people in New York, and over 1% of people who contracted the virus in the Netherlands? Or is that distracting from your narrative.

    But by all means keep clinging onto the deeply flawed Santa Clara study et al where candidates were self selected or whatever other misleading information you'd like to confuse the discussion with

    And deeply flawed Iceland study dont forget that one

    "CORONAVIRUS may be a lot less deadly than was first thought as large-scale screening in Iceland suggested around half of those infected have had the disease without even realising.

    Iceland has tested one tenth of its population at random, and data from the study suggests most display people only mild, if any, symptoms of the disease."

    Data suggests the country's fatality rate is just 0.41 per cent, which is significantly lower than other countries."

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5311703/iceland-coronavirus-testing-reveals-less-deadly-half-population-asymptomatic/

    Anyways as other well respected poster here said before, you are

    "Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only. Scaremongering. Blocked."

    PS read the bold part scaremonger.


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  • #6522
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    And deeply flawed Iceland study dont forget that one

    "CORONAVIRUS may be a lot less deadly than was first thought as large-scale screening in Iceland suggested around half of those infected have had the disease without even realising.

    Iceland has tested one tenth of its population at random, and data from the study suggests most display people only mild, if any, symptoms of the disease."

    Data suggests the country's fatality rate is just 0.41 per cent, which is significantly lower than other countries."

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/5311703/iceland-coronavirus-testing-reveals-less-deadly-half-population-asymptomatic/

    Anyways as other well respected poster here said before, you are

    "Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only. Scaremongering. Blocked."

    Is 0.4% the same as figure you've been regularly disseminating throughout the thread? Looks a good bit higher to me. So do you believe the Iceland study yourself or not then? Or do you have a valid reason why you believe the IFR to be in reality be half of what is estimated in that study?

    But yes, It is another great valuable study along with the others from Spain, New York, France, Netherlands. Wouldn't it be wise to take an average of these high quality antibody test results rather than simply using the Iceland result? That is usually what is done, it is best practice to get an accurate average. In that case, would be significantly higher, somewhere between 0.5% and 1.1%.

    BTW ,If you can find even one post by me where I am '"Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only.' I will delete my account right now for you! :)


  • #6523
    Breezin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Breezin


    This perfectly sums up the absurdity of our internal travel ban. Because this thread is so fast-moving, it's gotten lost, so I've taken the liberty of re-posting it in the internal travel restrictions thread.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm just back in the Republic from 6 hours hiking in the North. It was the best day I've had since the beginning of these restrictions. I met a friend of mine from Rostrevor on the track to the mountains and we headed off from there. We met a few other groups of 6 Northern hikers all thrilled to bits to be back out in the great outdoors. Since yesterday you can go anywhere you like for exercise in the North within groups of 6.
    Both Warrenpoint and Rostrevor were busy, lots of people about, coffee shops doing take out goods, plus you can sit outside , they all have tables and chairs out, supermarkets and small shops all open as well as garden centers. There was a real buzz.

    The ironic thing about today is that my friend has already planned 2 trips to the South in the next few weeks to do some hiking and touring. He has a tent so will be self sufficient. He's delighted it will be so quiet in the South! Yet I live in Louth and we cant go further than 5km. Not until after July 20th, 2 months away, can anyone go further than 20km (the hikers I chatted to on the mountains today couldn't believe this ). I would have more chance of being stopped going 8km in the South than if I drive over the border to hike. Yet Northerners can come down here and travel anywhere they want.


    Met no checkpoints at all today, once you get over the border there are no police and no restrictions. People are treated like adults. Nobody is flaunting social distancing, even on the hills. I'd strongly recommend anyone who is feeling depressed and restricted and who lives in Louth, Donegal or other border counties to head North for a day out away from the oppressiveness here.


  • #6524
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    BTW ,If you can find even one post by me where I am '"Quoting inflated fatality statistics based on confirmed cases only.' I will delete my account right now for you! :)

    But before you do, just read this

    "The COVID-19 coronavirus that has swept the world is less deadly than experts had first thought, and governments implemented lockdown measures too quickly before we could study it, according to a leading German virologist Professor Hendrik Streeck.

    Speaking to UnHerd’s Lockdown TV, Streeck said his study of a coronavirus outbreak in a German county revealed a fatality rate of 0.24-0.36 percent, which is significantly lower than the 0.8-0.9 percent estimated by prominent British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson."

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/14/Coronavirus-is-less-deadly-than-we-thought-says-German-expert

    I keep linking you studies showing fatality rate of 0.24% - 0.41% and all you do is threaten us with deleting your account. Well go ahead delete your account if you must, we are calling your bluff but before you delete it remember you were wrong.


  • #6525
    VonLuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,438 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Was just listening to Ivan Yates a few minutes ago and think he's playing a dangerous game. He stated that community transmission is practically non-existent and is portraying outrage at the 14 day isolation proposed for people travelling from abroad.

    While community transmission may be very low, he did not caveat it or mention anything about maintaining social distancing. Any listener that didn't know any better might think "sod this" and abandon all measures. Just asking for a spike in cases with that kind of attitude being portrayed.


  • #6526
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Outside of nursing homes, Covid is almost a non event in Ireland. A few hundred deaths max. And even that is mainly people on the elderly side of elder.

    Its a tragedy that we allowed this to spread the way it has in nursing homes. And the case numbers and deaths might start to rise due to the clusters there.

    Tony H is lucky to still have a job after the cervical scandal and his criticism of nursing homes banning visitors in mid march. The man has blood on his hands.
    Anyone has a link to this .......... for posterity sake?

    Irish authorities knew from what they saw in Italy in February that this virus was going to hit nursing homes in a big way. Instead of protecting the vulnerable in nursing homes in early March by implementing shutdowns in those facilities, the Irish government were busy moving 'vulnerable' asylum seekers out of Dublin hotels and in to small communities at the other side of the country..... where they brought Covid-19 with them. RTE and the Irish Times were blasting us with armageddon-type doom reports of what would happen in Direct Provision centres when the pandemic first hit Ireland ............ but not a word from them about protecting the old and vulnerable who worked and contributed all their lives to Irish society .......... with so many of them losing their lives due to the incompetence and lack of proactivity of those in charge.


  • #6527
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    But before you do, just read this

    "The COVID-19 coronavirus that has swept the world is less deadly than experts had first thought, and governments implemented lockdown measures too quickly before we could study it, according to a leading German virologist Professor Hendrik Streeck.

    Speaking to UnHerd’s Lockdown TV, Streeck said his study of a coronavirus outbreak in a German county revealed a fatality rate of 0.24-0.36 percent, which is significantly lower than the 0.8-0.9 percent estimated by prominent British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson."

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/14/Coronavirus-is-less-deadly-than-we-thought-says-German-expert

    I keep linking you studies showing fatality rate of 0.24% - 0.41% and all you do is threaten us with deleting your account. Well go ahead delete your account if you must, we are calling your bluff but before you delete it remember you were wrong.

    Yes it is a good study. But it is one of many serum studies now. Many other high quality studies have been done too in New York, France, Spain, Netherlands, and they estimate IFR to be 1%. You take an average of these all. Unfortunately the German study and the Iceland study are at the very lowest end of the estimate now. IFR of COVID is without doubt now, in the region of 0.5% to 1%.


  • #6528
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Was just listening to Ivan Yates a few minutes ago and think he's playing a dangerous game. He stated that community transmission is practically non-existent and is portraying outrage at the 14 day isolation proposed for people travelling from abroad.

    While community transmission may be very low, he did not caveat it or mention anything about maintaining social distancing. Any listener that didn't know any better might think "sod this" and abandon all measures. Just asking for a spike in cases with that kind of attitude being portrayed.

    I think social distancing has been talked about enough for people to not forget about it at this stage.


  • #6529
    LiquidZeb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭LiquidZeb


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    But before you do, just read this

    "The COVID-19 coronavirus that has swept the world is less deadly than experts had first thought, and governments implemented lockdown measures too quickly before we could study it, according to a leading German virologist Professor Hendrik Streeck.

    Speaking to UnHerd’s Lockdown TV, Streeck said his study of a coronavirus outbreak in a German county revealed a fatality rate of 0.24-0.36 percent, which is significantly lower than the 0.8-0.9 percent estimated by prominent British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson."

    https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/05/14/Coronavirus-is-less-deadly-than-we-thought-says-German-expert

    I keep linking you studies showing fatality rate of 0.24% - 0.41% and all you do is threaten us with deleting your account. Well go ahead delete your account if you must, we are calling your bluff but before you delete it remember you were wrong.

    To be honest threatening to delete his account reminds me of Meghan markle and prince Harry writing to the tabloids to let them know they don't want anything to to with them. It's a cry for attention.


  • #6530
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    The state death figures are flawed.
    10% of deaths are in the "possibly related" to Covid category. Not even probably.


  • #6531
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    He forgot to tell us that less than 2000 people have the virus in Ireland and a huge % aren’t now contagious. You’ll never see that posted on here.

    Except...you've just...posted it.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival



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  • #6532
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Was just listening to Ivan Yates a few minutes ago and think he's playing a dangerous game. He stated that community transmission is practically non-existent and is portraying outrage at the 14 day isolation proposed for people travelling from abroad.

    While community transmission may be very low, he did not caveat it or mention anything about maintaining social distancing. Any listener that didn't know any better might think "sod this" and abandon all measures. Just asking for a spike in cases with that kind of attitude being portrayed.


    Dedicated contrarians like Yates tend to be, except for his creditors, little more than an annoyance in normal times.


    In serious times the consequences of their tomfoolery can be far more serious.


  • #6533
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    I think social distancing has been talked about enough for people to not forget about it at this stage.

    The 14day isolation for ALL nationalities is 3 months too late.


  • #6534
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    LiquidZeb wrote: »
    To be honest threatening to delete his account reminds me of Meghan markle and prince Harry writing to the tabloids to let them know they don't want anything to to with them. It's a cry for attention.

    Not a threat, maybe a gift for Ginger Lemon who hates posts from anybody who dare post the reality of the situation that goes against their argument. If they could justify their accusations of my scaremongering, then I would rightfully disappear and stop my incessant scare tactics


  • #6535
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Rodin wrote: »
    The state death figures are flawed.
    10% of deaths are in the "possibly related" to Covid category. Not even probably.

    Link?


  • #6536
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Rodin wrote: »
    The 14day isolation for ALL nationalities is 3 months too late.

    Too late and wont change anything. Mandorty to fill in the form and sure if someone comes into the country they'll get a phone call to confirm they're isolating, sure anyone can say yeah I'm isolating.
    The gardai dont have the manpower to go checking up on everyone


  • #6537
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Link?

    Haven't got one. Not publicly available.


  • #6538
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Was just listening to Ivan Yates a few minutes ago and think he's playing a dangerous game. He stated that community transmission is practically non-existent and is portraying outrage at the 14 day isolation proposed for people travelling from abroad.

    While community transmission may be very low, he did not caveat it or mention anything about maintaining social distancing. Any listener that didn't know any better might think "sod this" and abandon all measures. Just asking for a spike in cases with that kind of attitude being portrayed.

    Maybe he doesnt think the entire populace is made up ignorant thickos who need to be reminded every 5 mins to maintain social distance, wash hands etc?

    Thats the way i feel these days when i hear Simon Harris waffling on about complacency and behave now, remember to wash your hands or else.

    To be fair to Leo he isnt as bad.

    Honestly if someone doesnt maintain social distance these days it isnt going to be because someone on the radio didnt remind them, its everywhere.


  • #6539
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Excellent news for my end of Aug Barcelona trip, and for Europe too

    "MADRID (Reuters) - Coronavirus lockdowns will be eased in Spain’s capital Madrid and second city Barcelona from Monday to allow outdoor dining and gatherings of up to 10 people as infections have slowed sufficiently there, the government said.

    Bars and restaurants in Madrid and Barcelona will be allowed to reopen on pavements and terraces at half capacity from Monday, churches can also throw open their doors again, and people will be free to travel outside the cities."


  • #6540
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Excellent news for my end of Aug Barcelona trip, and for Europe too

    "MADRID (Reuters) - Coronavirus lockdowns will be eased in Spain’s capital Madrid and second city Barcelona from Monday to allow outdoor dining and gatherings of up to 10 people as infections have slowed sufficiently there, the government said.

    Bars and restaurants in Madrid and Barcelona will be allowed to reopen on pavements and terraces at half capacity from Monday, churches can also throw open their doors again, and people will be free to travel outside the cities."

    They don’t care about their kids and grandparents.


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  • #6541
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Was just listening to Ivan Yates a few minutes ago and think he's playing a dangerous game. He stated that community transmission is practically non-existent and is portraying outrage at the 14 day isolation proposed for people travelling from abroad.

    While community transmission may be very low, he did not caveat it or mention anything about maintaining social distancing. Any listener that didn't know any better might think "sod this" and abandon all measures. Just asking for a spike in cases with that kind of attitude being portrayed.

    to be fair to Ivan Yates he HAS mentioned social distancing and hand hygiene on his show almost every single day. If you don't believe me have a listen back to his shows this week alone. He travels by bus and DART every day into Dublin city to work and back home. I've seen him at Pearse Station a few times. He is very aware of the risks outside with the general public and on public transport and has been banging on about it NON STOP saying you can get on with your lives and your jobs as long as you practice social distancing and hand hygiene. He is an example of this.

    Community transmission is practically non existent at the moment, he's not wrong there.


This discussion has been closed.
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