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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7442
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    polesheep wrote: »
    It's you, as usual, who doesn't know what he is talking about. How much increase to the risk of mortality is it going to cause in the nursing home if the patient has Covid-19? And as for costs, we're piss8ng money down the drain already.

    Seeming as you know it all, how much riskier is it for an elderly patient to be in a nursing home instead of a hospital?


  • #7443
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    polesheep wrote: »
    It's like the past few months with all of the nursing home deaths never happened.
    And that's the biggest 'if' ever typed.

    I stand by the fact that you are been a bit hysterical and not completely understanding the situation. It's the reason that the laypeople don't get to decide discharge planning.


  • #7444
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I stand by the fact that you are been a bit hysterical and not completely understanding the situation. It's the reason that the laypeople don't get to decide discharge planning.

    George Bernard Shaw said “All professions are conspiracies against the laity”

    The difference is that if there's another raft of nursing home deaths and a second lockdown in the winter, the HSE are going to have to do some serious explaining.

    "We are the medical people who understand these things," isn't going to cut ice.


  • #7445
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Arghus wrote: »
    Finally - someone mentions the elephant in the room: there's fck all people wearing masks.

    Buy 3m and Honeywell stock.


  • #7446
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Sure, shorthand here for I actually don't know but I'll make a completely wild guess anyway.

    I don't use shorthand and I'm not Humpty Dumpty... words don't change meaning.


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  • #7447
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Seeming as you know it all, how much riskier is it for an elderly patient to be in a nursing home instead of a hospital?

    FFS, the risk is to the other residents of the nursing home.


  • #7448
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    polesheep wrote: »
    FFS, the risk is to the other residents of the nursing home.

    I didn't think I'd see the day I'd agree with you, but here we are.


  • #7449
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I stand by the fact that you are been a bit hysterical and not completely understanding the situation. It's the reason that the laypeople don't get to decide discharge planning.

    'Discharge Planning' get them out as fast as possible because the trollies are piling up. I've had close up experience of 'Discharge Planning' that i wouldn't want again.


  • #7450
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    New Home wrote: »
    I didn't think I'd see the day I'd agree with you, but here we are.

    Differences tend to be exaggerated on fora. I imagine most of us have much more in common than we realise.


  • #7451
    owlbethere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭owlbethere


    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/a-cautious-reopening-may-hinder-recovery-goodbody-39225379.html


    Heres a financial piece nearly urging the government to rush opening the economy again.

    I don't get it though. The virus is still out there. How can businesses operate if large parts of the population get get together? Who's going to work for them? Who's going to go out an spend their money in their businesses?

    We are getting some good numbers lately but the virus is still out there and circulating. We will get a few weeks maybe with a more open economy/society and then we will probably begin to see daily cases in the hundreds again.


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  • #7452
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    polesheep wrote: »
    'Discharge Planning' get them out as fast as possible because the trollies are piling up. I've had close up experience of 'Discharge Planning' that i wouldn't want again.

    That's what laypeople think discharge planning is. It's a lot more complicated than that.


  • #7453
    Curious_Case
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Tony EH wrote: »
    You most certainly are.

    Yes, I exist, well done !!!


  • #7454
    Onesea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    Until a firm negative test is returned no person should be readmitted to a nursing home.
    What's the harm in getting some value out of the space rented from private hospitals? They could be held in isolation until they are cleared and good to go.

    Are there any Irish posters living outside of Ireland reading the reaction to this?

    Almost all the media outlets wait until one of the authority figures speak to run with a story.

    Between virgin media and the Claire Byrne one it's a farcical **** show.


  • #7455
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Onesea wrote: »
    Until a firm negative test is returned no person should be readmitted to a nursing home.
    What's the harm in getting some value out of the space rented from private hospitals? They could be held in isolation until they are cleared and good to go.

    Are there any Irish posters living outside of Ireland reading the reaction to this?

    Almost all the media outlets wait until one of the authority figures speak to run with a story.

    Between virgin media and the Claire Byrne one it's a farcical **** show.

    If I was an elderly patient, I'd be more concerned about picking up HAP than COVID-19.


  • #7456
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    polesheep wrote: »
    'Discharge Planning' get them out as fast as possible because the trollies are piling up. I've had close up experience of 'Discharge Planning' that i wouldn't want again.

    There should have been no discharges from hospitals to nursing homes during the covid 19 period.

    If this happened, it would be seriously and almost criminally negligent by the HSE, as it potentially contaminated nursing homes with covid 19 or put a patient from a hospital at risk of picking up an infection.

    Hopefully it didn't happen, as its 101 of trying to prevent infections getting into nursing homes.


  • #7457
    Onesea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭Onesea


    owlbethere wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/a-cautious-reopening-may-hinder-recovery-goodbody-39225379.html


    Heres a financial piece nearly urging the government to rush opening the economy again.

    I don't get it though. The virus is still out there. How can businesses operate if large parts of the population get get together? Who's going to work for them? Who's going to go out an spend their money in their businesses?

    We are getting some good numbers lately but the virus is still out there and circulating. We will get a few weeks maybe with a more open economy/society and then we will probably begin to see daily cases in the hundreds again.

    The virus is "still out there"

    Loads have it or have had it and will never know.
    A hand full got very sick as people do and the media hoovered them up for a nicely scripted and broadcasted fear piece for TV.

    It has gotten to the point where there is no choice.


  • #7458
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's what laypeople think discharge planning is. It's a lot more complicated than that.

    We're talking motive not practical application.


  • #7459
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    polesheep wrote: »
    We're talking motive not practical implication.

    Motive is primarily bed pressures/patient safety. To be fair to you, in the HSE, IMO, we do tend to rush people put of hospital too quickly due to bed pressures which just leads to increased readmissions.


  • #7460
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    These are the kinds of mistakes that lead to lockdown.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/nursing-homes-asked-to-take-in-patients-without-negative-coronavirus-swab-39225509.html
    Nursing homes are being asked to accept patients from acute hospitals without a negative swab for coronavirus.
    In the absence of a swab to show the hospital transfers have tested negative, the homes are being advised "wherever possible" to isolate the patients in a single room for two weeks.

    Its very difficult to isolate a patient for two weeks without risking cross contamination. If nursing, cleaning or catering staff go into the room, they are likely to be infected. Likewise if the patient touches plates and cutlery. Very very difficult to isolate someone.

    But when the nursing home crisis takes off again, it will be blamed on the general public for not social distancing and nonsense like that.


  • #7461
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I was an elderly patient, I'd be more concerned about picking up HAP than COVID-19.
    That is a ridiculous statement. There should absolutely never be a situation again where a possible Covid positive patient should be re admitted to a nursing home and it is the responsibility of those in charge of the nursing home never to allow this to happen again. We have allowed a massacre of thousands of elderly people to take place and it can absolutely never be tolerated again.


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  • #7462
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    As the Brazilian government desperately tries to avoid lock down (or to be more specific the 'Trump of the South' who is in charge) individual cities and states, in defiance, are desperately putting in place measures as quickly as possible.

    Brazil: largest rise in Covid-19 deaths follows Bolsonaro 'worst is over' claim

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/06/brazil-coronavirus-deaths-covid-19-bolsonaro

    Brazil reported 10,503 new cases and 615 new deaths so far today.

    This will be a case study to follow on the consequences of not taking required measures to contain the transmission of the virus. Although, in fairness, states are now finally acting in defiance of lunacy.

    Stats etc

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/brazil/

    Bump for this, in 10 days Brazil's declared number of dead has risen from
    under 10,000 to just over 20,000 the active infection rate is currently on a near exponential curve having doubled to from 80k to 165k in 10 days.


  • #7463
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    That is a ridiculous statement. There should absolutely never be a situation again where a possible Covid positive patient should be re admitted to a nursing home and it is the responsibility of those in charge of the nursing home never to allow this to happen again. We have allowed a massacre of thousands of elderly people to take place and it can absolutely never be tolerated again.

    So make a recovered patient stay in hospital longer than necessary leading to an increase in their mortality risk when there is no indication of SARS-CoV-2??


  • #7464
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So make a recovered patient stay in hospital longer than necessary leading to an increase in their mortality risk when there is no indication of SARS-CoV-2??

    Nope, you do two tests on them over a couple of days to check if they are positive or negative.

    This is basic stuff, the kind of basic stuff the HSE continually mess up.

    A hospital is a far safer place to be in than a nursing home now by the way.


  • #7465
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Nope, you do two tests on them over a couple of days to check if they are positive or negative.

    This is basic stuff, the kind of basic stuff the HSE continually mess up.

    A hospital is a far safer place to be in than a nursing home now by the way.

    https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_EndofLife.pdf

    I'd disagree.

    Where is your evidence or is it just opinion? I bet you are going to hit me with 60% of all COVID-19 deaths were in nursing homes all the while ignoring all-cause mortality.


  • #7466
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    Hmmm. From nursing home point of view. Keep someone that possibly has Covid 19 away and therefore reduce the risk of mortality to people who don't have it in the nursing home. At the risk that the person in hospital may pick up HAP etc and increase risk of their mortality.

    Or bring that person from the hospital to the nursing home, all the while they may have Covid 19. Increase the risk of mortality to others in the nursing home. But reduce the risk of mortality from HAP for the person who came from the hospital.

    It seems pretty straight forward to me. And if i had a relative in a nursing home that was receiving patients like that. I'd be going mental.


  • #7467
    bettyoleary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭bettyoleary


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So make a recovered patient stay in hospital longer than necessary leading to an increase in their mortality risk when there is no indication of SARS-CoV-2??
    When the patient is no longer a risk of spreading the virus to other residents and staff in the nursing home they can be returned to the home. If hospitals can not cope then the patient will need to be placed in a facility that can continue to maintain the safety of the patient and those that come into contact with them. Simple and for the HSE to sort out.


  • #7468
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    Hmmm. From nursing home point of view. Keep someone that possibly has Covid 19 away and therefore reduce the risk of mortality to people who don't have it in the nursing home. At the risk that the person in hospital may pick up HAP etc and increase risk of their mortality.

    Or bring that person from the hospital to the nursing home, all the while they may have Covid 19. Increase the risk of mortality to others in the nursing home. But reduce the risk of mortality from HAP for the person who came from the hospital.

    It seems pretty straight forward to me. And if i had a relative in a nursing home that was receiving patients like that. I'd be going mental.

    The idea is that they will be isolated for two weeks post discharge. Also, could i reverse it and say that a relative of the patient who died of HAP in hospital would possibly going mental in your scenario.


  • #7469
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bettyoleary wrote: »
    When the patient is no longer a risk of spreading the virus to other residents and staff in the nursing home they can be returned to the home. If hospitals can not cope then the patient will need to be placed in a facility that can continue to maintain the safety of the patient and those that come into contact with them. Simple and for the HSE to sort out.

    If you test negative on admission, are placed in isolation until confirmed negative, only surrounded by other patients who are confirmed negative and staff wearing appropriate PPE. How can you be at risk of spreading it if you don't have it?


  • #7470
    Psychedelic Hedgehog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 486 ✭✭Psychedelic Hedgehog


    I wouldn't bother engaging tbh. Random internet opinions seem to be much more valuable than those of healthcare professionals.


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  • #7471
    bekker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bekker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you test negative on admission, are placed in isolation until confirmed negative, only surrounded by other patients who are confirmed negative and staff wearing appropriate PPE. How can you be at risk of spreading it if you don't have it?
    Do all staff in hospital, including cleaners, food servers, wear PPE including masks, whenever in vicinity of patients, including in corridors?


This discussion has been closed.
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