Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

growleaves · 22-05-2020 09:37AM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

So are you advocating sending patients not yet clear of Covid in to a closed setting and risking the lives of those living there? What's your point or your solution?

Nope, I only meant it sarcastically.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 10:01AM

https://www.theonion.com/nation-s-politicians-law-enforcement-corporate-execut-1843568548

Miike · 22-05-2020 10:19AM

ZX7R wrote: »

Here's the full report for Ireland PDF download

Thanks for that Z, I appreciate it.

Curious_Case · 22-05-2020 10:26AM

Tony EH wrote: »

I didn't mention anything about "often" or "routine". :rolleyes:

But this has been about 9 weeks since we put restrictions in place just before Paddys day and there are a group of posters on here every day...ALL day...banging on with nonsense like "permanent" and "perpetual" and "forever", just because they want to lift the restrictions and the consequences be damned.

Covid-19 is merely a pain in the arse for the vast majority of people. It means they can't get to the boozer for wee while. Their "routine" has been slightly interrupted.

There's no need for all the hair pulling and talking gibberish about permanent or indefinite lockdowns.

What? so now you're saying it hasn't happened here often !!!!
I'm confused dot com

22-05-2020 10:30AM

So, not that I'm defending the HSE but they will still be tested on admission (certainly everybody been admitted in my hospital). This is saying that they won't be testing everybody on discharge.

Couple of reasons:
1) Just because you have a negative swab doesn't mean you don't have SARS-CoV-2

2)if we decide to discharge patients, but then have to wait 24 hours for a swab to come back, this will increase the burden on the HSE. Also, if a patient is deemed well to go home on Thurs evening and swab doesn't come back until Friday evening, it is unlikely that the patient will move to nursing home until monday.

3) Even in COVID-19, the worst place for an elderly person to be unnecessarily is in a hospital. The risk of hospital acquired pneumonia and delays in discharge lead to increased mortality in the elderly population.

Hope this gives some rationale for the HSE decision which I personally agree with.

McGiver · 22-05-2020 10:31AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus Christ the incompetence on show is near criminal at this stage. You could not make this up. :mad:

HOLY FLIPPING MOTHER :eek:

Holohan is a public health expert acting in good faith.

Delusional stuff....

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:32AM

polesheep wrote: »

Here we go again.
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/nursing-homes-asked-to-take-in-patients-without-negative-coronavirus-swab-39225509.html

Is this another one of the Independent unnamed source things? I see a single consultant mentioned, as in one. Presumably the article goes on to provide something a little less flimsy than that.

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:32AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus Christ the incompetence on show is near criminal at this stage. You could not make this up. :mad:

You could and they quite often do or at the very least make it seem about something else! If we're doing blame games let's not let the fourth estate off the hook. Some of their engagements with facts has been abysmal.

McGiver · 22-05-2020 10:36AM

And here are the latest international results to evaluate the performance of our "experts" Mr Harris and Mr Holohan and especially for our media who didn't bother to make such analysis and scrutinise the government. I have done it for them. See attached.

Note - UK grossly underreports (about 40% cases not included) so it's probably the worst country in Europe, Italy & Spain moderately underreport, Sweden & Netherlands also underreport but probably not by a huge number. The remaining countries report all deaths in all settings.

Note 2 - In cases per capita, Ireland is at the bottom of the league. Actually, even worse than in the deaths per capita...

McGiver · 22-05-2020 10:40AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, not that I'm defending the HSE but they will still be tested on admission (certainly everybody been admitted in my hospital). This is saying that they won't be testing everybody on discharge.

Couple of reasons:
1) Just because you have a negative swab doesn't mean you don't have SARS-CoV-2

Wasn't the test specificity something like 70%?

And also if you've few weeks into the infection you may not even have viral RNA to detect via this test anymore?

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:41AM

McGiver wrote: »

And here are the latest international results to evaluate the performance of our "experts" Mr Harris and Mr Holohan and especially for our media who didn't bother to make such analysis and scrutinise the government. I have done it for them. See attached.

Note - UK grossly underreports (about 40% cases not included) so it's probably the worst country in Europe, Italy & Spain moderately underreport, Sweden & Netherlands also underreport but probably not by a huge number. The remaining countries report all deaths in all settings.

And what exactly is this going to help us with? Harris is no expert, he's a mouthpiece and the CMO is part of the very large group in NPHET, which makes the recommendations.

bettyoleary · 22-05-2020 10:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, not that I'm defending the HSE but they will still be tested on admission (certainly everybody been admitted in my hospital). This is saying that they won't be testing everybody on discharge.

Couple of reasons:
1) Just because you have a negative swab doesn't mean you don't have SARS-CoV-2

2)if we decide to discharge patients, but then have to wait 24 hours for a swab to come back, this will increase the burden on the HSE. Also, if a patient is deemed well to go home on Thurs evening and swab doesn't come back until Friday evening, it is unlikely that the patient will move to nursing home until monday.

3) Even in COVID-19, the worst place for an elderly person to be unnecessarily is in a hospital. The risk of hospital acquired pneumonia and delays in discharge lead to increased mortality in the elderly population.

Hope this gives some rationale for the HSE decision which I personally agree with.

Point 3. The worst place for an elderly person to be is in a nursing home!!!!!!!!

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:45AM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Point 3. The worst place for an elderly person to be is in a nursing home!!!!!!!!

Not if they are run properly. 35% of such environments were not affected.

22-05-2020 10:45AM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Point 3. The worst place for an elderly person to be is in a nursing home!!!!!!!!

No. It's not. Where are you more likely to pick up VRE/HAP etc? People need to get real. If a patient is well enough to not be in hospital. The worst place for them to be is in a hospital.

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:47AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, not that I'm defending the HSE but they will still be tested on admission (certainly everybody been admitted in my hospital). This is saying that they won't be testing everybody on discharge.

Couple of reasons:
1) Just because you have a negative swab doesn't mean you don't have SARS-CoV-2

2)if we decide to discharge patients, but then have to wait 24 hours for a swab to come back, this will increase the burden on the HSE. Also, if a patient is deemed well to go home on Thurs evening and swab doesn't come back until Friday evening, it is unlikely that the patient will move to nursing home until monday.

3) Even in COVID-19, the worst place for an elderly person to be unnecessarily is in a hospital. The risk of hospital acquired pneumonia and delays in discharge lead to increased mortality in the elderly population.

Hope this gives some rationale for the HSE decision which I personally agree with.

It doesn't actually. We have vacant beds in our hospitals, therefore this is an unnecessary risk. If a person who contracted Covid-19 in a hospital is sent into a nursing home they will spread the infection.

Tony EH · 22-05-2020 10:48AM

Curious_Case wrote: »

I'm confused

You most certainly are.

growleaves · 22-05-2020 10:48AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Not if they are run properly. 35% of such environments were not affected.

Oh so its only 65% that aren't? Such a relief. Thanks, you've put my mind at ease

Miike · 22-05-2020 10:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So, not that I'm defending the HSE but they will still be tested on admission (certainly everybody been admitted in my hospital). This is saying that they won't be testing everybody on discharge.

Couple of reasons:
1) Just because you have a negative swab doesn't mean you don't have SARS-CoV-2

2)if we decide to discharge patients, but then have to wait 24 hours for a swab to come back, this will increase the burden on the HSE. Also, if a patient is deemed well to go home on Thurs evening and swab doesn't come back until Friday evening, it is unlikely that the patient will move to nursing home until monday.

3) Even in COVID-19, the worst place for an elderly person to be unnecessarily is in a hospital. The risk of hospital acquired pneumonia and delays in discharge lead to increased mortality in the elderly population.

Hope this gives some rationale for the HSE decision which I personally agree with.

Obviously I understand the clinical decision process behind why they want to do it but surely there is an argument to be made that testing them on discharge limits the possibility of bringing COVID back into the nursing home environment? Given what we've seen so far. This just doesn't seem like sound IPC practice to me.

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:50AM

polesheep wrote: »

It doesn't actually. We have vacant beds in our hospitals, therefore this is an unnecessary risk. If a person who contracted Covid-19 in a hospital is sent into a nursing home they will spread the infection.

You seem to think that said nursing home has no protocols in place to deal with possible COVID-19 outbreaks.

22-05-2020 10:50AM

polesheep wrote: »

It doesn't actually. We have vacant beds in our hospitals, therefore this is an unnecessary risk. If a person who contracted Covid-19 in a hospital is sent into a nursing home they will spread the infection.

You literally don't know what you are talking about. Do you know how much it costs to keep a person in an acute medical bed/day. It's about 2500 euros. In my hospital, most people are isolated before been put in a six bedded dorm once SARS-CoV-2 negative. Keeping them in hospital.is going to increase their risk of mortality.

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:51AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Not if they are run properly. 35% of such environments were not affected.

They may well be now!

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:52AM

growleaves wrote: »

Oh so its only 65% that aren't? Such a relief. Thanks, you've put my mind at ease

I just provided stats. How you want to dance with them is beyond my control.

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:52AM

polesheep wrote: »

They may well be now!

Source?!

22-05-2020 10:53AM

polesheep wrote: »

They may well be now!

If appropriate isolation facilities are in place in nursing home. It's perfectly safe and a lot safer than hospital. People really need to think a little more critically with their analysis rather than be led by emotion.

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:53AM

is_that_so wrote: »

You seem to think that said nursing home has no protocols in place to deal with possible COVID-19 outbreaks.

And why should I think otherwise given our experience to date? BTW, you are late starting work this morning.

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:56AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You literally don't know what you are talking about. Do you know how much it costs to keep a person in an acute medical bed/day. It's about 2500 euros. In my hospital, most people are isolated before been put in a six bedded dorm once SARS-CoV-2 negative. Keeping them in hospital.is going to increase their risk of mortality.

It's you, as usual, who doesn't know what he is talking about. How much increase to the risk of mortality is it going to cause in the nursing home if the patient has Covid-19? And as for costs, we're piss8ng money down the drain already.

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:56AM

polesheep wrote: »

And why should I think otherwise given our experience to date? BTW, you are late starting work this morning.

I don't think you ever planned to think otherwise and that's fine. They say it is well under control and in decline in such environments.

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:56AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Source?!

You do understand the word 'may'?

polesheep · 22-05-2020 10:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If appropriate isolation facilities are in place in nursing home. It's perfectly safe and a lot safer than hospital. People really need to think a little more critically with their analysis rather than be led by emotion.

It's like the past few months with all of the nursing home deaths never happened.
And that's the biggest 'if' ever typed.

is_that_so · 22-05-2020 10:59AM

polesheep wrote: »

You do understand the word 'may'?

Sure, shorthand here for I actually don't know but I'll make a completely wild guess anyway.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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