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Eirgrid figures during night time EV charging

123457

Comments

  • #302
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Anyone remember the figures that used to be touted to justify paying extra for a night rate meter?

    3 units per night is about the breakeven point to cover the extra standing charge and the increased day rate. You're using multiples of that so you should be on the dual tariff.


  • #303
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    There was a discussion a few years ago around whether it was better or worse for the environment to charge by day or by night.

    I did some analysis back then and came to the conclusion that the difference, for the Irish grid, was negligible (3%)
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103042278&postcount=102

    It came up again recently so I decided to run the numbers over a longer time period (last year or so) to rule out seasonal variations...
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110218407&postcount=23

    I think the discussion is better suited to this thread....


    To summarise, if you charge your car on night rate its marginally worse for CO2 intensity than if you charge it by day. The average difference, over a year, in CO2 intensity is about 3% more by night.

    The data I'm using is the same data that this thread uses so its Eirgrid's own data here...
    http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com


    Interestingly, I charge my car between 5-8am which is still within the night rate hours but because more generators are coming online for the morning peak the figures seem to be better during that timeframe than if you charge from 11pm-4am.... its a minor difference but does ring true in how the grid works.

    So, I charge from 5-8am and the gCO2/kWh figure for that is 309 for the last year. For 8am or later its 302 so a 2% difference.

    A 2% difference, imo, isnt worth considering when deciding whether to charge during the day or during the night. Others may disagree?


  • #304
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59


    Two months of data added in this post. Good to see coal staying at close to zero!


  • #305
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Just on the night v day charging thing. Anyone with solar panels will have come to notice that there is an overlap between solar generation and night rate, up until 9am. My panels start working around 7am, so I've moved all night rate loads to end at 9am. E.g. previously the dishwasher was set to start at midnight. Now it's set to end at 9am.


  • #306
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Just on the night v day charging thing. Anyone with solar panels will have come to notice that there is an overlap between solar generation and night rate, up until 9am. My panels start working around 7am, so I've moved all night rate loads to end at 9am. E.g. previously the dishwasher was set to start at midnight. Now it's set to end at 9am.

    You save something like 6c , is it honestly worth your while delaying it?


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  • #307
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    ted1 wrote: »
    You save something like 6c , is it honestly worth your while delaying it?

    I set the timers on washing machine and dishwasher anyway, so it makes no odds. I'm more inclined to have the wm come on in the morning for safety too as it's more likely to leak or catch fire etc.


  • #308
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fears-for-100-moneypoint-jobs-as-esb-looks-to-realign-935622.html

    Snippet...
    A statement from the ESB said that, due to market pressures, carbon prices, and increases in renewable energy, “Moneypoint is running far less than previously”.

    “Given these market fundamentals, a low-running regime is likely to persist into the future. The impact of these factors is that Moneypoint’s income has been significantly reduced,” it said.

    Consequently, ESB needs to realign Moneypoint’s operation and resources with the new lower running regime.


  • #309
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Good. Hopefully it is decommissioned entirely and replaced with offshore wind, coupled with grid storage


  • #310
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Good. Hopefully it is decommissioned entirely and replaced with offshore wind, coupled with grid storage
    There are high tension power lines leading from Moneypoint. They own the land there. It is a good place to put a wind farm as the plant itself is more of an eyesore than the wind turbines would be. It wouldn't be the first wind farm placed beside a decommissioned power plant.


  • #311
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Another reason to shutter Moneypoint;

    7. Greenhouse gases: Whistleblower claims there is an alleged lack of an effective management system for SF6 (sulfur hexafluoride gas), the most damaging greenhouse gas, with a global warming potential 23,900 times greater than CO2. He further claims the ESB’s handling of this substance would not stand up to external scrutiny.

    ESB response: ESB says its annual usage of SF6 is reported to the EPA in line with EU regulations, and it has also reported on SF6 usage annually to the CRU since 2006. The vast majority of ESB’s SF6 usage in recent years is attributable to the transmission switchgear at Moneypoint transmission substation, which accounted for around 600kg of ESB Networks’ usage of circa 750kg of SF6. It said a €100 million upgrade to the switchgear was completed last month which will “significantly reduce ESB Networks’ usage of SF6 gas”.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/esb-networks-investigates-whistleblower-allegation-on-overtime-1.3949577

    (Edit: why the fook did they spend 100m upgrading switchgear when it's obvious that the whole place is going to be mothballed soon)


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  • #312
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Another reason to shutter Moneypoint;

    7. Greenhouse gases: Whistleblower claims there is an alleged lack of an effective management system for SF6 (sulfur hexafluoride gas), the most damaging greenhouse gas, with a global warming potential 23,900 times greater than CO2. He further claims the ESB’s handling of this substance would not stand up to external scrutiny.

    ESB response: ESB says its annual usage of SF6 is reported to the EPA in line with EU regulations, and it has also reported on SF6 usage annually to the CRU since 2006. The vast majority of ESB’s SF6 usage in recent years is attributable to the transmission switchgear at Moneypoint transmission substation, which accounted for around 600kg of ESB Networks’ usage of circa 750kg of SF6. It said a €100 million upgrade to the switchgear was completed last month which will “significantly reduce ESB Networks’ usage of SF6 gas”.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/esb-networks-investigates-whistleblower-allegation-on-overtime-1.3949577

    (Edit: why the fook did they spend 100m upgrading switchgear when it's obvious that the whole place is going to be mothballed soon)
    probable answer: brownouts and datacentres do not mix.


  • #313
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    rivegauche wrote: »
    There are high tension power lines leading from Moneypoint. They own the land there. It is a good place to put a wind farm as the plant itself is more of an eyesore than the wind turbines would be. It wouldn't be the first wind farm placed beside a decommissioned power plant.

    They already have put turbines there!


  • #314
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    put more there.
    Raze it to ground and fit in a few more.
    Wind Turbines aren't showing in the pictures I saw on the internet.

    site has a few acres of coal which can be cleared.
    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Moneypoint+Power+Station/@52.6104344,-9.4280749,2160m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x7462d3c7b157b739!8m2!3d52.6113628!4d-9.4355342


  • #315
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    n97 mini wrote: »

    (Edit: why the fook did they spend 100m upgrading switchgear when it's obvious that the whole place is going to be mothballed soon)

    That should be front page news. People have some serious explaining to do :mad:

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    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #316
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    rivegauche wrote: »
    It is a good place to put a wind farm as the plant itself is more of an eyesore than the wind turbines would be.

    There's already a windfarm there, right in the middle of the power plant.


  • #317
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    n97 mini wrote: »

    (Edit: why the fook did they spend 100m upgrading switchgear when it's obvious that the whole place is going to be mothballed soon)

    According to my friend from EirGrid: The transmission compound is not part of the station, it is operated and developed by EirGrid, not ESB. It's needed regardless of whether the station is operating because it is a node of the 400kV network


  • #318
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Zen65 wrote: »
    According to my friend from EirGrid: The transmission compound is not part of the station, it is operated and developed by EirGrid, not ESB. It's needed regardless of whether the station is operating because it is a node of the 400kV network

    Eirgrid operate some aspects the grid, but ESBN own it (long standing bone of contention -- thank the unions).


  • #319
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54


    Another two months of data added in this post.

    Coal still at effectively zero. Imagine the money its costing to maintain and pay staff at Moneypoint and no energy being generated! :eek:


    The gCO2 figure for the last 2 months is a bit of a mystery. Considering that the wind generation is average enough I dont understand how the gCO2 figure is so low. I've checked the data and the figure is correct so maybe it is correct.


  • #320
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43


    Four months of data added in this post.


  • #321
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43


    One health warning for this month, there is about 2 weeks worth of data missing. Looks like their database had issues over the Christmas period so its not a complete data set.


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  • #322
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,710 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    High hitting the 80s a good few times as early as nearly a year ago. Does that mean the grid can now handle up to 85% from wind? Last I heard sometime last year it was 75% and the year before 65%

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  • #323
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    just to put performance in perspective:
    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/05/denmark-passes-magic-50-in-renewable-electricity-generation-milestone/
    and portugal is over 50% as well.
    The newest off shore mega wind turbine fields should be adopted by Ireland as we have a huge continental shelf.


  • #324
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Just checking the eirgrid website. For the fuel mix this week the ewic is 4.17%. Would that be imported energy or exported?

    What is other?


  • #325
    ewj1978
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭ewj1978


    If its in a positive its importing. http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#all/interconnection change it to weekly/monthly as required.

    other is : " The “Other” category includes Peat, Combined Heat and Power (CHP), Aggregated Generating Units (AGUs), Demand Side Units (DSUs), Distillate and Waste."


  • #326
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    If its in a positive its importing. http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#all/interconnection change it to weekly/monthly as required.

    other is : " The “Other” category includes Peat, Combined Heat and Power (CHP), Aggregated Generating Units (AGUs), Demand Side Units (DSUs), Distillate and Waste."

    Mad that there is import when some wind turbines are turned off.


  • #327
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Mad that there is import when some wind turbines are turned off.

    When did this happen?


  • #328
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    When did this happen?

    I'll put up figures when on a PC tomorrow. Notice on windy nights the electricity demand is decrease and at the same time wind generation is reduced as well. Happens every night.


  • #329
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    YFlyer wrote: »
    I'll put up figures when on a PC tomorrow. Notice on windy nights the electricity demand is decrease and at the same time wind generation is reduced as well. Happens every night.

    Off peak, yes, this will certainly happen. It is to keep the wind generation under a certain proportion. I would think there are regional considerations as well as national level considerations.


  • #330
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43
    12/1-10/2|51|5|75|262|203|362|44|0|42


    Yay! Coal back to 0%
    And anyone charging their car at night can say 50% of it was renewable. Not a bad figure at all.


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  • #331
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Mad that there is import when some wind turbines are turned off.

    Could be any number of reasons why. Lots of limitations there may be lines , transformers out of service on the grid that restricts transmission capabilities. By not offering N-1 contingencies


  • #332
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    KCross wrote: »
    Yay! Coal back to 0%
    And anyone charging their car at night can say 50% of it was renewable. Not a bad figure at all.

    Carbon taxes have made CCGT cheaper, so coal is being pushed aside


  • #333
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    ted1 wrote: »
    Could be any number of reasons why. Lots of limitations there may be lines , transformers out of service on the grid that restricts transmission capabilities. By not offering N-1 contingencies

    You can look at the instruction file and see the instructions that were sent to wind farms, whether they were national curtailments or local constraints.

    If there were more dispatchable demand (like car charging or heating) particularly near wind farms, it might be possible to reduce constraint (and curtailment).

    My limited experience of it is that constraint and curtailment have not amounted to that much this winter at least. Maybe 2 percent?


  • #334
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43
    12/1-10/2|51|5|75|262|203|362|44|0|42
    10/2-9/3|60|8|78|232|202|327|55|0|35


    New record... 60% of your car charging was renewable the last 4 weeks!


  • #335
    denismc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭denismc


    There seems to be a noticeable dip in electricity consumption in the last couple of weeks with so many businesses shut down.
    508047.png


  • #336
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43
    12/1-10/2|51|5|75|262|203|362|44|0|42
    10/2-9/3|60|8|78|232|202|327|55|0|35
    10/3-7/4|44|12|79|265|206|324|42|2|41


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  • #337
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43
    12/1-10/2|51|5|75|262|203|362|44|0|42
    10/2-9/3|60|8|78|232|202|327|55|0|35
    10/3-7/4|44|12|79|265|206|324|42|2|41
    8/4-7/5|28|3|91|274|206|331|24|4|60


  • #338
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Just a small aside because of the Covid-19 times we live in, I decided to just look back at the raw data I have from this time last year and I compared the average 24hr demand figure for the same time period to see what affect the lockdown has had on the grid.

    So I took 28 Mar - 7 May and compare 2019 to 2020

    Average 24/7 demand for 2019 was 3302MW and 2020 was 3007.

    So about a 9% drop in demand. I thought it might have been more tbh. Obviously alot of demand just shifted from workplaces to homes but with so many high consuming businesses closed I would have thought it would have dropped more.


  • #339
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    KCross wrote: »
    Just a small aside because of the Covid-19 times we live in, I decided to just look back at the raw data I have from this time last year and I compared the average 24hr demand figure for the same time period to see what affect the lockdown has had on the grid.

    So I took 28 Mar - 7 May and compare 2019 to 2020

    Average 24/7 demand for 2019 was 3302MW and 2020 was 3007.

    So about a 9% drop in demand. I thought it might have been more tbh. Obviously alot of demand just shifted from workplaces to homes but with so many high consuming businesses closed I would have thought it would have dropped more.

    Well, we have very little industrial base. What industrial base we have is operating to a large extent.


  • #340
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ted1 wrote: »
    Could be any number of reasons why. Lots of limitations there may be lines , transformers out of service on the grid that restricts transmission capabilities. By not offering N-1 contingencies

    Happens most night and inline with use.


  • #341
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    KCross wrote: »
    Just a small aside because of the Covid-19 times we live in, I decided to just look back at the raw data I have from this time last year and I compared the average 24hr demand figure for the same time period to see what affect the lockdown has had on the grid.

    So I took 28 Mar - 7 May and compare 2019 to 2020

    Average 24/7 demand for 2019 was 3302MW and 2020 was 3007.

    So about a 9% drop in demand. I thought it might have been more tbh. Obviously alot of demand just shifted from workplaces to homes but with so many high consuming businesses closed I would have thought it would have dropped more.

    What data centres cane along in that 12 month difference. Could easily have been 200-300MW added


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  • #342
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Happens most night and inline with use.

    Yes, until we raise our SNSP limits there will always be curtailment when the Demand is low and the wind is blowing


  • #343
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Well, we have very little industrial base. What industrial base we have is operating to a large extent.
    EurGrid statement from March
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-fundamental-shift-in-electricity-use-says-eirgrid-1.4215613?mode=amp


  • #344
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    ted1 wrote: »
    What data centres cane along in that 12 month difference. Could easily have been 200-300MW added


    Not sure how reliable this article is from last Sept but it doesnt seem likely if its true...

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/irish-data-centres-investment-report-2019
    There are 53 operational data centres in Ireland, which have capacity of 622MW. With eight more under construction and 26 with planning approval, the data centres in the pipeline would more than double Ireland’s capacity by 2025.


  • #345
    YFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    ted1 wrote: »
    Yes, until we raise our SNSP limits there will always be curtailment when the Demand is low and the wind is blowing

    We can get up to 65%. Portugal has managed 100 renewables for a few days.

    Would the use of smart meters, like the ones Duncan Stewart was talking about on tv, make a difference?


  • #346
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,653 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    YFlyer wrote: »
    We can get up to 65%. Portugal has managed 100 renewables for a few days.

    Would the use of smart meters, like the ones Duncan Stewart was talking about on tv, make a difference?

    Portugal has Synchronous interconnetors with other countries So they have frequency and voltage support. That’s out weakness. If we get a dip we could have a cascade which crashes our grid
    We will get there but we need to spend €19bn to do it.

    Edit: 38% hydro is very different than having just wind

    https://www.apren.pt/en/renewable-energies/production


  • #347
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    YFlyer wrote: »
    We can get up to 65%. Portugal has managed 100 renewables for a few days.

    Would the use of smart meters, like the ones Duncan Stewart was talking about on tv, make a difference?

    Renewables can go up higher than that. Went to 78 percent today. There are major challenges going beyond that or maybe even sustaining that.

    Smart metering might make a difference in specific circumstances If combined with other measures.


  • #348
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    Smart metering might make a difference in specific circumstances If combined with other measures.

    Power cuts? :pac:


  • #349
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Lumen wrote: »
    Power cuts? :pac:

    Well you could do that! But more likely with a responsive tariff that went up and down in tandem with the prevailing electricity price.


  • #350
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Was looking at the smartgriddashboard today, almost no wind power on the grid at all.


  • #351
    KCross
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Update to OP

    % Wind vs Demand from 4-8am

    Date|% Wind(4am-8am)|Low|High|gCO2/kW(4am-8am)|Low|High|Total Wind %(24hr)|Total Coal %(24hr)|Total Gas %(24hr)
    28/7-26/8 2017|28|0|58|365|288|433|24
    25/8-23/9|26|1|67|375|259|458|24
    23/9-22/10|36|1|62|305|210|429|34
    22/10-19/11|29|1|62|334|225|421|23
    20/11-18/12|38|5|68|347|224|463|30|16|39
    19/12-17/1 2018|46|3|75|331|209|472|39|13|35
    17/1-15/2|50|4|75|295|215|500|42|12|33
    15/2-16/3|35|1|71|371|215|522|33|20|39
    16/3-14/4|29|0|71|373|211|513|26|17|43
    14/4-13/5|32|2|82|291|247|336|32|9|45
    13/5-11/6|14|1|62||||13|7|66
    11/6-10/7|19|1|75||||18|8|65
    10/7-8/8|18|1|67|316|212|372|17|6|68
    8/8-5/9|30|1|73|319|224|447|26|6|59
    6/9-5/10|34|5|74|332|208|440|32|5|49
    5/10-3/11|37|1|76|323|204|437|32|0|52
    3/11-2/12|51|18|75|276|201|390|44|0|45
    2/12-31/12|47|3|80|266|203|393|40|0|42
    31/12-29/1 2019|36|4|77|341|203|499|30|5|46
    30/1-27/2|56|12|77|273|208|411|48|5|35
    27/2-28/3|43|6|84|297|218|394|38|3|43
    28/3-25/4|31|1|78|302|217|394|29|1|53
    26/4-25/5|25|1|77|325|213|429|22|0|64
    24/5-22/6|29|3|63|333|245|436|28|2|59
    24/6-23/7|24|1|73|261|206|331|22|0.5|67
    22/7-20/8|34|1|77|258|201|374|32|1|54
    20/8-18/9|38|7|72|298|203|456|33|1|49
    18/9-17/10|41|4|77|301|206|475|38|2|46
    18/10-15/11|39|2|80|297|203|400|36|2|46
    15/11-14/12|43|6|83|300|201|417|37|4|43
    14/12-12/1 2020|36|4|75|287|202|432|35|2|43
    12/1-10/2|51|5|75|262|203|362|44|0|42
    10/2-9/3|60|8|78|232|202|327|55|0|35
    10/3-7/4|44|12|79|265|206|324|42|2|41
    8/4-7/5|28|3|91|274|206|331|24|4|60
    7/5-5/6|33|1|79|254|205|312|33|x|x
    5/6-4/7|35|1|85|310|205|373|32|4|58
    4/7-2-8|33|2|74|264|208|353|32|4|58


    3 months added


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