Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

dwayneshintzy · 21-05-2020 2:39pm

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3085412/two-sessions-2020-how-far-will-beijing-go-push-article-23

Massive escalation from Beijing on the cards

Yurt2 · 21-05-2020 4:52pm

One country two systems well and truly dead if this gets imposed, which it likely will.

Another cycle of mass-protests is on the way. The current iteration of the CCP truly are world class dunderheads.

Muahahaha · 21-05-2020 7:31pm

Pretty serious move by Beijing, they'll basically label any protester as a terrorist and lock them up

dwayneshintzy · 27-05-2020 6:25pm

Pompeo has announced that the US no longer considers HK autonomous from China

Muahahaha · 27-05-2020 8:13pm

Just saw Pompeos move, Beijing supposed to be furious.

Things are escalating quickly in Hong Kong, footage today of police taking school children away and now the legislature is trying to ram through a new law to force schoolchildren to sing the Chinese national anthem every day. Any mocking or booing of the Chinese national anthem now in Hong Kong will attract a 3 year prison sentence.

4068ac1elhodqr · 27-05-2020 8:20pm

There was talk of the uk considering offering refuge for many over there, might'nt be a bad idea considering historic factors.

The funniest thing about HK is that (along with the various Arab springs): 'technology' (social media, secure messaging) was seen as a welcome aid - to freedom and expression.

As of now, in HK and across the Arab world, even China itself, that is starting to look like the opposite. 180 degree role reversal. Technology will become their oppressor.

dwayneshintzy · 28-05-2020 1:30am

The anthem law doesn't deal with forcing students to sing it daily, only with punishments for causing offense to it.

kowloonkev · 28-05-2020 11:05am

Police have been well prepared for the new waves of protests. Blocking off access to areas where large gatherings are likely and where government is meeting. If this is going to be the police strategy in preventing protests, and giving no outlet for demonstrations, then I dread to think of the only alternatives left for the pro-dems to show their discontent.

2u2me · 04-06-2020 2:38am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A lot of people couldn't believe they were just abandoned.

Dominic Raab offers to welcome in Hong Kong residents if Beijing doesn't scrap new security laws for the territory.

Foreign secretary unwilling to let a trade deal with soon to be biggest economy get in the way with standing up for British principles and values.

Good on him. China furious.

dwayneshintzy · 04-06-2020 2:40am

As far as I can tell, it's not a very practical solution from the UK and seems to be more of a PR exercise than anything. Could be wrong, but it seems it will actually be a renewable 12 month visa (that may prove costly), and Hong Kongers coming over may not even be free to work.

Also, tonight's vigil will be available online; https://hka8964.wordpress.com/2020/06/02/6431clv/

2u2me · 04-06-2020 3:05am

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

As far as I can tell, it's not a very practical solution from the UK and seems to be more of a PR exercise than anything.

That just seems odd considering they have brexit to deal with and a trade deal to strike with China. Why poke the bear unnecessarily?

If this is true they have a lot to lose and little to gain.

dwayneshintzy · 04-06-2020 3:18am

I'm not sure, but the way it's being reported by some is as a "path to citizenship". If you look into it, that path is quite convoluted and costly.

pauldla · 04-06-2020 7:20am

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I'm not sure, but the way it's being reported by some is as a "path to citizenship". If you look into it, that path is quite convoluted and costly.

A very interesting article from Foreign Policy, describing the situation and its intricacies.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/03/hong-kong-british-citizenship-bno-empire-nationality/

2u2me · 04-06-2020 2:29pm

Yuan Yi Zhu's article is not without bias. He says this is about the 'legacy of empire' when in fact, I believe it may just be the UK applying whatever pressure they can, willing to bite the bullet and stand up for what's right.

Something they eventually did with the Ugandan Asians, as much as he makes out they didn't want to help (You could argue the same thing before this week with the UK). Any Ugandan Asians that didn't emigrate to the UK found home in Canada, Kenya or India.

The US are also furiously scrambling to see what political pressure they can apply to Hong Kong given this new security bill, aren't they considering removing the special trade status of Hong Kong?

suicide_circus · 04-06-2020 2:30pm

how much looting was involved in the hong kong ptotests

2u2me · 04-06-2020 3:48pm

They 'looted' their parliament, removed the Chinese flag and raised the British flag.

Muahahaha · 04-06-2020 4:50pm

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I'm not sure, but the way it's being reported by some is as a "path to citizenship". If you look into it, that path is quite convoluted and costly.

From what Ive read the Foreign Office are playng a game of brinkmanship with Beijing. One statement said that around 800,000 would be entitled to a passport, another said it could be up to three million. London wants to make Beijing stop and think about their actions and one tool is a perceived or potential threat of a brain drain and a mass exodus of citizens from HK to the UK.

I cant see it happening in any case especially against the backdrop of Brexit and the populace there tired of constant immigration plus the Covid economic fall out on top. Domnic Raab is just posturing in floating these ideas, there will be little to no follow through.

The situation in the US at the moment also gives Beijing political cover to do as they please in HK with these sedition laws. Nonetheless Trump is under pressure so Id expect some lash outs at China to be incoming very soon, it riles up his base.

dwayneshintzy · 04-06-2020 4:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

how much looting was involved in the hong kong ptotests

Very little, a few isolated cases just. Lots and lots of businesses smashed up though, there was just a point made to take nothing.

And 2u2me, think we'd just have to agree to disagree on the motives of Johnson, Raab, Patel, et al in any path to citizenship. I don't think they'll do anything out of the goodness of their hearts.

2u2me · 04-06-2020 5:02pm

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

And 2u2me, think we'd just have to agree to disagree on the motives of Johnson, Raab, Patel, et al in any path to citizenship. I don't think they'll do anything out of the goodness of their hearts.

That's fair enough. In the beginning of this thread people were complaining that the UK were not offering citizenship for the HongKongers, I was merely adding that this has now changed.

Our opinions on why surely can differ.

pauldla · 05-06-2020 1:23am

2u2me wrote: »

Yuan Yi Zhu's article is not without bias. He says this is about the 'legacy of empire' when in fact, I believe it may just be the UK applying whatever pressure they can, willing to bite the bullet and stand up for what's right.

Something they eventually did with the Ugandan Asians, as much as he makes out they didn't want to help (You could argue the same thing before this week with the UK). Any Ugandan Asians that didn't emigrate to the UK found home in Canada, Kenya or India.

The US are also furiously scrambling to see what political pressure they can apply to Hong Kong given this new security bill, aren't they considering removing the special trade status of Hong Kong?

It's this 'legacy of empire' that allows the UK a mechanism to offer eventual citizenship for BN(O), is it not? I'm not clear what bias you are referring to?

dwayneshintzy · 10-08-2020 11:53am

Jimmy Lai arrested and Apple Daily offices raided

Terrible sign of the way things are going in Hong Kong....

biko · 10-08-2020 12:54pm

At least they (the HK protesters) really tried. Standing up to China isn't easily done and since no country stepped in (or could step in) they are now pretty much ****ed in a democratic sense.

Gatling · 10-08-2020 6:19pm

biko wrote: »

At least they (the HK protesters) really tried. Standing up to China isn't easily done and since no country stepped in (or could step in) they are now pretty much ****ed in a democratic sense.

Everyone is afraid to speak against China they own half the world at this rate ,
I'd still love to see the HK citizens declare independence and really rattle the cage but I get the feeling the Chinese would turn HK into a shooting range rather quickly with no hope of any outside help,

Taiwan has to be worried at this stage , Chinese long range bombers have being regularly seen carrying out practice bombing runs in the south China sea , suggesting there getting ready for something

TheValeyard · 10-08-2020 6:27pm

Yeah, Hong Kong is dead.

But the world can do something about China. Refuse to buy their goods force Western companies to relocate, maybe India, sure it has its problems but at least its a democracy.

Bar wealthy Chinese from travel to Western nations. Basically turn China into a pariah. The government might change their mind when the elite in society have assets striped, frozen or removed from powerful party members.

James Brown · 10-08-2020 9:40pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yeah, Hong Kong is dead.

But the world can do something about China. Refuse to buy their goods force Western companies to relocate, maybe India, sure it has its problems but at least its a democracy.

Bar wealthy Chinese from travel to Western nations. Basically turn China into a pariah. The government might change their mind when the elite in society have assets striped, frozen or removed from powerful party members.

As with Putin. Once there's money to be made human rights and doing the right thing take a back seat.
China should be penalised for how it treats it's own.

Muahahaha · 10-08-2020 9:48pm

Id say it wont be long before they lock up Joshua Wong as well. What a brave young man, he knows prison is coming but he refuses to leave HK

briany · 10-08-2020 9:52pm

If people can't be bothered to get some unified action on climate change going, I don't see how they'll do anything about China. Just replace the argument about whether climate change is even real to 'I don't earn enough to afford a significant markup on my consumer goods.' If money talks, that's a winning argument.

Manach · 10-08-2020 9:52pm

If the Irish Government had the courage of its professed convictions on human rights, it would switch recognistion to Taiwan. I read the book "The big stick" by Eliot Cohen. In that, it posited that for soft power to work (as opposed to military options) there has to be the moral impetus to make the sacrifice to uphold the choice of human rights over economic gain. As a theoritical neutral power, Ireland could have made an impact by such a move. But like the usual governmental posturing, the appearence of morality/wokeness is preferred to acting.

Bonniedog · 10-08-2020 10:17pm

Manach wrote: »

If the Irish Government had the courage of its professed convictions on human rights, it would switch recognistion to Taiwan. I read the book "The big stick" by Eliot Cohen. In that, it posited that for soft power to work (as opposed to military options) there has to be the moral impetus to make the sacrifice to uphold the choice of human rights over economic gain. As a theoritical neutral power, Ireland could have made an impact by such a move. But like the usual governmental posturing, the appearence of morality/wokeness is preferred to acting.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Irish state to take any moral stand!

The obsequiousness towards China is almost total. Only 12 TDs and Senators signed a letter protesting over the Uighur genocide. 12 out of over 200, and I think just 3/4 from the govt parties and not one Shinner - the great human rights advocates.

Just noticed your quote from Scruton. Wasn't it he who described Chinese economic system as "gangland capitalism."? Marxist totalitarianism and robber baron capitalism are not a good combination.

It is a state that V.M Vargas would love!

Infini · 11-08-2020 12:38am

Bowie wrote: »

As with Putin. Once there's money to be made human rights and doing the right thing take a back seat.
China should be penalised for how it treats it's own.

It probably will in the long run. The chinese people themselves are no different from anyone else in the world, the problem in all of this is and always has been the CCP. Some probably thought that by helping China become more properous that they would become more like the rest of the world but sadly XI and co pretty much have other ideas. Until they realise they'll stagnate or struggle to advance beyond their current position with their current attitude towards other nations and countries and are forced to change somewhat the only thing that realistically can be done is to limit and restrict trade with them and become far less dependant on them for things.

HK was always going to suffer a loss of freedoms because of it being part of china, I just don't think those back then thought the CCP would move to dismantle them as quick as they have. That being said China under the CCP has become a major liability in international terms in part because of their handling of the Coronavirus, had they not supressed thing's so early on thing's might not have gotten out of hand as they have. This has ironically focused alot of international attention on them and long term wise will lead to changes to tolerate less of their carryon.

Only thing that can really be done in the long term is to quite simply relocate any manufacturing and such away from back towards either the west or to places more alligned with modern democratic values. The CCP has to be given the message that as long as they continue with their currrent behaviour that they'll find themselves limited in economic and diplomatic terms as they're pissing off alot of other countries with their behaviour.

Rodney Bathgate · 11-08-2020 12:48am

Bonniedog wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Irish state to take any moral stand!

The obsequiousness towards China is almost total. Only 12 TDs and Senators signed a letter protesting over the Uighur genocide. 12 out of over 200, and I think just 3/4 from the govt parties and not one Shinner - the great human rights advocates.

Just noticed your quote from Scruton. Wasn't it he who described Chinese economic system as "gangland capitalism."? Marxist totalitarianism and robber baron capitalism are not a good combination.

It is a state that V.M Vargas would love!

There is an ongoing thread giving out about us losing out on Chinese investment for a new meat processing factory.

We should be thankful the deal has fallen through.

dwayneshintzy · 11-08-2020 4:41am

TheValeyard wrote: »

Yeah, Hong Kong is dead.

But the world can do something about China. Refuse to buy their goods force Western companies to relocate, maybe India, sure it has its problems but at least its a democracy.

Bar wealthy Chinese from travel to Western nations. Basically turn China into a pariah. The government might change their mind when the elite in society have assets striped, frozen or removed from powerful party members.

Things are getting bad in HK, and have been getting bad for a while now. But I don't agree with the bolded bit; not saying it's how you meant it personally, but it's very common for people to say this and it comes across as quite flippant. There are more than 7 million people in Hong Kong, there are still so many amazing things to the region, and I wouldn't say the people have given up. Hong Kong isn't dead yet.

Yurt2 · 11-08-2020 4:59am

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Things are getting bad in HK, and have been getting bad for a while now. But I don't agree with the bolded bit; not saying it's how you meant it personally, but it's very common for people to say this and it comes across as quite flippant. There are more than 7 million people in Hong Kong, there are still so many amazing things to the region, and I wouldn't say the people have given up. Hong Kong isn't dead yet.

Beijing is strangling what's wonderful about the place.

A few mainland Chinese I know when pressed had deep antipathy towards Hong Kongers who they felt looked down on mainlanders.

The CCP treats places like Hong Kong / Xinjiang / Tibet like real estate opportunities rather than places where humans live that hold values and opinions of their own.

The other day I was speaking to a British girl who was born and raised in HK. Her parents are retired there and had intended to live out the rest of their lives in a place they considered home. Now they are uprooting in the winter of their lives to go back to Blighty such is the level of rapid and negative change.

It's not just British or other Europeans that have been there a long time. Many ethnicities call HK home. Indians, Sikhs, Nepalese etc. Now it's just a target of thin-skinned red nationalists.

dwayneshintzy · 11-08-2020 5:41am

Yurt! wrote: »

Beijing is strangling what's wonderful about the place.

They're trying to, yes. They haven't succeeded yet, though the arrest of opposition media is one of the worst signs yet.

ilkhanid · 17-08-2020 2:57pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Irish state to take any moral stand!

Nor, apparently, are Sinn Fein willing to take a stand. They take their compass from the attitude of the British Government. If Downing Street goes one way, Mary Lou will go the opposite way.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sinn-fein-faces-questions-as-mep-abstains-from-condemnation-of-hong-kong-crackdown-39445591.html

Gatling · 17-08-2020 3:55pm

Nice to know sf supports such self determination

Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

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