Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

18-05-2020 07:07PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Exactly. The measures introduced were needed at the time. They have worked well and we have all played a part in that, and will continue to do so with modified behaviour. But we should be looking to bringing things forward now, or at least having a conversation about the possibility of it, that at least would give some people a bit of hope.

But instead all we get is a telling off because 46% of optimism is “concerning” and Simon telling people to have a bit of cop on like we are school children who aren’t toilet trained and need to be reminded not to piss our pants. People are sick of being spoken down to by doom merchants and finger wagged at. The measures worked, brilliant. Now let’s have a conversation about opening up earlier than planned instead of scolding people for rightly feeling that the worst is over.

We can't because two faced Harris likes to talk down to people, he really likes his own form of moral high ground and the contribution it makes to his sense of self satisfaction.

Arghus · 18-05-2020 07:09PM

JL555 wrote: »

We can't because two faced Harris likes to talk down to people, he really likes his own form of moral high ground and the contribution it makes to his sense of self satisfaction.

Ah, would ya stop. If case numbers are low and the rest of the continent are getting on with life the government won't wait any longer than they have too. Regardless of how Simon Harris talks to people.

18-05-2020 07:14PM

Arghus wrote: »

Ah, would ya stop. If case numbers are low and the rest of the continent are getting on with life the government won't wait any longer than they have too. Regardless of how Simon Harris talks to people.

?

robbiezero · 18-05-2020 07:21PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Exactly. The measures introduced were needed at the time. They have worked well and we have all played a part in that, and will continue to do so with modified behaviour. But we should be looking to bringing things forward now, or at least having a conversation about the possibility of it, that at least would give some people a bit of hope.

But instead all we get is a telling off because 46% of optimism is “concerning” and Simon telling people to have a bit of cop on like we are school children who aren’t toilet trained and need to be reminded not to piss our pants. People are sick of being spoken down to by doom merchants and finger wagged at. The measures worked, brilliant. Now let’s have a conversation about opening up earlier than planned instead of scolding people for rightly feeling that the worst is over.

This is absolutely bizarre. 4 deaths and 88 cases today, most other countries seeing vastly reduced numbers too and this number surprises them. I'm surprised its not twice that number, but then you read threads on here, and its not so surprising.

Like how does it not look like the worst is over if you are not a "second wave doom-monger"?

almostover · 18-05-2020 07:23PM

First day of easing restrictions not going well. Was in the local park earlier, jammed full of large gangs of teenagers blind drunk. Girlfriend reported it to the Gardai, they've had multiple complaints and had been there earlier to break other groups up. Elderly people out in the park with masks on and terrified. Another local village has had fires lit in a graveyard by drunk teens.

Time to open up the schools or else put them all on work experience in an ICU. Would soften their cough fairly lively.

BTW I'm 29, so not a old fart giving out. Still young enough to remember when I was 15.

average_runner · 18-05-2020 07:25PM

almostover wrote: »

First day of easing restrictions not going well. Was in the local park earlier, jammed full of large gangs of teenagers blind drunk. Girlfriend reported it to the Gardai, they've had multiple complaints and had been there earlier to break other groups up. Elderly people out in the park with masks on and terrified. Another local village has had fires lit in a graveyard by drunk teens.

Time to open up the schools or else put them all on work experience in an ICU. Would soften their cough fairly lively.

BTW I'm 29, so not a old fart giving out. Still young enough to remember when I was 15.

Opening up schools would do nothing, still be in groups

Arghus · 18-05-2020 07:25PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Doesnt prove anything? it must be a co incidence then that covid peaks after 70 days. ohhh it peaked in China. It has clearly peaked here.

And by the looks of it it is peaking in Sweden

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102203/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-sweden/

Must be a co incidence. Also, below must be a co incidence

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/nobel-scientist-predicts-virus-will-burn-out-in-next-two-weeks-39194015.html

Wow thats 2 scientists. I am fearful to keep going... it seems unravelling

A few reads about your favourite subject: the current situation in Sweden.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/18/not-romanticise-swedens-ill-prepared-adrift-coronavirus-response/

https://www.france24.com/en/20200517-sweden-s-covid-19-strategy-has-caused-an-amplification-of-the-epidemic

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-economy-likely-wont-benefit-from-decision-avoid-lockdown-report-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

almostover · 18-05-2020 07:27PM

average_runner wrote: »

Opening up schools would do nothing, still be in groups

At least they wouldn't be littering public amenities with cans.

SusieBlue · 18-05-2020 07:34PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'd say they'll definitely lift them earlier than then. IMO it's a lot better to give a worst case scenario and then act sooner than give an optimistic estimate and have to tell people that actually, it's going to go on longer than planned. That would be soul destroying.

I actually believed the same until they fudged the businesses included in phase 1 at the 11th hour, due to a ‘typo’.
These businesses had spent all last week getting ready to reopen, setting up new procedures etc only to be told Friday that it was a mistake and that they weren’t allowed open after all.

Meanwhile the drapery, homeware, and clothing retail sections in all of my local Dunnes stores are now open and have been for the last few weeks and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food.
It must be soul destroying for other businesses seeing them open and making money while they’re being prevented from opening for another 3 weeks, after being closed since mid March.

After that I have no doubt that there’ll be more ‘typos’ and miscommunications along the way, and I can’t see them accelerating things at all.

The reality is we should be entering phase 3 on June 8th and not a moment later.
We are ready for it, businesses are ready for it, and the health service is ready for it. With over a million taxpayers now unemployed, the public purse is also most definitely ready for it.
We can’t expect much more compliance from people who have already pretty much sacrificed everything.

There is actually so much tension and anger where I am from that I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump style lockdown protests soon. People have had enough of being chastised when we have done what was asked of us, and now the government aren’t fulfilling their end of the bargain.

MrDavid1976 · 18-05-2020 07:40PM

almostover wrote: »

At least they wouldn't be littering public amenities with cans.

The Leaving Cert decision will look a lot different over the next weeks. And they can’t even head off to the sun resorts.

snowcat · 18-05-2020 07:43PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Quite a bit of naivety on this thread.

"We're doing great, now let's fire the people who implemented our successfull plans and policies".

WTF is wrong with you.

Ah get out of it. Most giovernments in Europe have had the exact same policies or wildly different policies and we are all coming out of this in the same way. The lockdowns made very marginal differences. Most of the damage was done before the lockdowns.

Hurrache · 18-05-2020 07:45PM

snowcat wrote: »

Ah get out of it. Most giovernments in Europe have had the exact same policies or wildly different policies and we are all coming out of this in the same way. The lockdowns made very marginal differences. Most of the damage was done before the lockdowns.

Lol

Breezin · 18-05-2020 07:46PM

almostover wrote: »

First day of easing restrictions not going well. Was in the local park earlier, jammed full of large gangs of teenagers blind drunk. Girlfriend reported it to the Gardai, they've had multiple complaints and had been there earlier to break other groups up. Elderly people out in the park with masks on and terrified. Another local village has had fires lit in a graveyard by drunk teens.

Time to open up the schools or else put them all on work experience in an ICU. Would soften their cough fairly lively.

BTW I'm 29, so not a old fart giving out. Still young enough to remember when I was 15.

Lack of targeted policing while we all are policed because 'we Irish' can't control ourselves.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 07:46PM

Arghus wrote: »

A few reads about your favourite subject: the current situation in Sweden.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/18/not-romanticise-swedens-ill-prepared-adrift-coronavirus-response/

https://www.france24.com/en/20200517-sweden-s-covid-19-strategy-has-caused-an-amplification-of-the-epidemic

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-economy-likely-wont-benefit-from-decision-avoid-lockdown-report-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

Could you please admit that multiple scientists are showing that covid is dying out by itself?

I dont kno why we talk about Sweden, their unemployment numbers arent even in double digits. While their deaths per 1 million is nearly identical to ours. Trust me you dont want to get that cat out of the bag.

uli84 · 18-05-2020 07:46PM

average_runner wrote: »

Opening up schools would do nothing, still be in groups

Well they would spend most of their time occupied with something rather than causing troubles which will start very soon

Naos · 18-05-2020 07:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We've completely overreacted to Covid and the 3 month plan is 2 months too long... We never even had a first wave in Ireland.

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

uli84 · 18-05-2020 07:54PM

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

It was hardly a lockdown apparently as those supporting it are saying so...(?)

SusieBlue · 18-05-2020 07:57PM

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

It depends really on whether you believe the first reported case in Ireland was actually the first case.

If coronavirus has been proven to have been in France since early December (at a minimum, I have seen reports that suggest it could be as far back as October) I see no reason to believe it wasn’t here too.
And if that’s the case, it throws the whole timeline up in the air because we’re actually a lot further along with this disease than we’re accounting for.
So this whole theory of first/second waves etc hinges on when you believe we had our first case.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 08:05PM

More good news from Denmark

"Denmark’s cafes, restaurants and pubs are reopening, after two months of lockdown.

It’s the latest chapter in Denmark’s phased easing of restrictions.

Social distancing has been scaled back from 2m (6.5ft) to 1m. It means more customers can be seated, making it more viable for restaurants to reopen.

“The two metres was a big issue because it didn't allow us to have enough revenue,” says Jacob Niebuhr, Chairman of Denmark’s Restaurant and Cafe Association."

They had 69 new cases today and 4 covid deaths. It is getting quite obvious that countries do not wait for 6 - 8 new cases a day to start opening. Why are we waiting?

Note how they believe more customers seated = makes it viable for restaurants to open.

Have a bad feeling with all the "covid monitor employee" paranoia going on, and even worse imposed, we ll make it impossible for businesses to operate given the 50% reduced capacity requirement already.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 18-05-2020 08:17PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

More good news from Denmark

"Denmark’s cafes, restaurants and pubs are reopening, after two months of lockdown.

It’s the latest chapter in Denmark’s phased easing of restrictions.

Social distancing has been scaled back from 2m (6.5ft) to 1m. It means more customers can be seated, making it more viable for restaurants to reopen.

“The two metres was a big issue because it didn't allow us to have enough revenue,” says Jacob Niebuhr, Chairman of Denmark’s Restaurant and Cafe Association."

They had 69 new cases today and 4 covid deaths. It is getting quite obvious that countries do not wait for 6 - 8 new cases a day to start opening. Why are we waiting?

Note how they believe more customers seated = makes it viable for restaurants to open.

Have a bad feeling with all the "covid monitor employee" paranoia going on, and even worse imposed, we ll make it impossible for businesses to operate given the 50% reduced capacity requirement already.

While John and Jane have to wait till late July for a haircut here, thanks to our lord and saviour Tony :rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss · 18-05-2020 08:22PM

growleaves wrote: »

Charlie Chawkes pubs already have restaurant licences and he's announced they're reopening in June.

I'd have more sympathy for him and the other publicans if their 'restaurants/pubs' had ever had any commitment to serving food late at night.
But in so many places I've been greeted with a 'kitchen closed' growl when trying to order something at 9.01pm, with 3 hours of drinking time left.

statesaver · 18-05-2020 08:27PM

4 deaths, RIP, 88 new cases,great news.

Now let me go back to work FFS

FintanMcluskey · 18-05-2020 08:31PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Could you please admit that multiple scientists are showing that covid is dying out by itself?

I dont kno why we talk about Sweden, their unemployment numbers arent even in double digits. While their deaths per 1 million is nearly identical to ours. Trust me you dont want to get that cat out of the bag.

I've said before, if over 90% of deaths are over 65, deaths per million of total population is a poor indicator of how a country is coping.
This is not killing younger people in significant numbers.

Readjusted figures for over 65 show a different story.

lainey_d_123 · 18-05-2020 08:41PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I actually believed the same until they fudged the businesses included in phase 1 at the 11th hour, due to a ‘typo’.
These businesses had spent all last week getting ready to reopen, setting up new procedures etc only to be told Friday that it was a mistake and that they weren’t allowed open after all.

Meanwhile the drapery, homeware, and clothing retail sections in all of my local Dunnes stores are now open and have been for the last few weeks and they’re getting away with it because they also sell food.
It must be soul destroying for other businesses seeing them open and making money while they’re being prevented from opening for another 3 weeks, after being closed since mid March.

After that I have no doubt that there’ll be more ‘typos’ and miscommunications along the way, and I can’t see them accelerating things at all.

The reality is we should be entering phase 3 on June 8th and not a moment later.
We are ready for it, businesses are ready for it, and the health service is ready for it. With over a million taxpayers now unemployed, the public purse is also most definitely ready for it.
We can’t expect much more compliance from people who have already pretty much sacrificed everything.

There is actually so much tension and anger where I am from that I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised to see Trump style lockdown protests soon. People have had enough of being chastised when we have done what was asked of us, and now the government aren’t fulfilling their end of the bargain.

Can't argue with any of that. Wasn't aware of the error in the guidance - that must have been very frustrating for those businesses

SusieBlue wrote: »

It depends really on whether you believe the first reported case in Ireland was actually the first case.

If coronavirus has been proven to have been in France since early December (at a minimum, I have seen reports that suggest it could be as far back as October) I see no reason to believe it wasn’t here too.
And if that’s the case, it throws the whole timeline up in the air because we’re actually a lot further along with this disease than we’re accounting for.
So this whole theory of first/second waves etc hinges on when you believe we had our first case.

Has that been conclusively proven? Weren't the first few cases in Wuhan thought to have been in late November? So it's not completely out of the realms of possibility that a handful of people might have been infected in France from someone who had just come from there, without that implying any community spread in Europe at that time.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 08:41PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I've said before, if over 90% of deaths are over 65, deaths per million of total population is a poor indicator of how a country is coping.
This is not killing younger people in significant numbers.

Readjusted figures for over 65 show a different story.

Whichever way you look at it, you are more likely to die from a car crash than covid. you called it correctly all those weeks ago.

Car crash is actually 4 times more deadly/likely as is. Be careful on the roads.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 18-05-2020 08:44PM

statesaver wrote: »

4 deaths, RIP, 88 new cases,great news.

Now let me go back to work FFS

lets keep everything locked down indefinitely, the magic money tree will pay for it :rolleyes:

Ginger n Lemon · 18-05-2020 08:44PM

"While speaking to the Sunday Independent this weekend, Prof Ziegler pointed out that the downward trend in each country occurred as soon as the public became aware of the danger.

He said: "What that means is that the level of intensity of the restrictions [whether mild restrictions or full lockdown] is not what really counts. What really counts is human behaviour.

"People need to practise social distancing, washing their hands, wearing masks, not touching one's face and avoiding large crowds, but the data shows that preventing people from going out makes very little difference, once all of these are in place."

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/longer-lockdown-not-warranted-says-leading-immunologist-39176618.html

This is an interview from 3rd of May. They did studies on 24 countries (some in lockdowns, some arent). That in bold really hits home doesnt it....

Fintan are you happy with todays numbers? Does it warrant a haircut in June perhaps instead of July?

Dr. Bre · 18-05-2020 08:46PM

Those low figures will hurt the new normal brigade

18-05-2020 08:46PM

Naos wrote: »

Just wondering but can you not see the correlation between the lockdown and us not having a first wave?

I actually supported going into lockdown originally.
I think the lockdown served it’s purpose up until a few weeks back.

Lockdown was only ever supposed to be a temporary measure to buy us some time to get up to speed and ensure the illness didn’t get out of control.

I still support schools staying closed until September. Let the kids have a break, they’re probably traumatised seeing people wearing masks and PPE. I still support social distancing. I support keeping pubs closed for a while longer.

At this point though, the economy is in bits and the disease is more than under control. It’s time to open up. And way faster than the current plans.

So to answer the actual question, yes I think lockdown served it’s purpose up until about 3 weeks back. And I’d still advise caution. But 3 more months is hugely excessive and detrimental to society.

nickkinneg · 18-05-2020 08:48PM

Just read there - that Oxford university who were the closest to a vaccine being developed has failed - all six rhesus monkeys contracted it - not sure what’ll happen to the people they trialed this on - this thing is one resilient ****ucker.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings