The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

road_high · 17-05-2020 08:59AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No decision made as yet. https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0515/1138560-donohoe-on-reopening-of-economy/

The fact it’s even being discussed is ominous. This government has always done this- drip drip news well in advance so the shock and awe is well subdued before the bad news is announced.

road_high · 17-05-2020 09:01AM

kowloon wrote: »

I think there are a few people on this thread upset not so much about the money as the fact that minimum wage workers aren't being kept in their proper place relative to them. It hurts their ego that they're not being rated high enough over the scum.

I doubt that very much. Everyone wants to see taxpayers money spent sensibly. Paying people more to sit at home doing nothing vs working is insanity by any stretch

mcsean2163 · 17-05-2020 09:40AM

Unemployed in us being paid a lot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/05/15/house-votes-today-another-1200-stimulus-check-200-billion-for-hazard-pay-extended-unemployment/

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

I saw people asking where our surplus went. In case people have forgotten, we're one of the most indebted nations in the world. Our government debt is well over 200 billion.

Wanderer78 · 17-05-2020 09:47AM

mcsean2163 wrote:

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

Its called helicopter money, and it's potentially one if the best ways to stimulate an economy during a downturn, rather than the usual methods of encouraging financial institutions from creating credit which in turn becomes debt.

mcsean2163 wrote:

I saw people asking where our surplus went. In case people have forgotten, we're one of the most indebted nations in the world. Our government debt is well over 200 billion.

Debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, its a critical component of our money supply, the velocity of money is collapsing, one of the best ways to increase this, is by increasing the money supply, and one of the best ways to do this is by increasing the debt. Reducing the debt has the opposite effect, and slows a recovery

17-05-2020 10:10AM

road_high wrote: »

The fact it’s even being discussed is ominous. This government has always done this- drip drip news well in advance so the shock and awe is well subdued before the bad news is announced.

From the outset it was only a temporary emergency measure. It was a very brave decision. It’s bad enough being in lockdown without the worry of lack of money on top. I’m sure that most of the money is being spent locally. Claims are being checked afterwards rather than beforehand and many will have their claim rejected and possibly have to repay what they received.

Danzy · 17-05-2020 10:33AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Unemployed in us being paid a lot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/05/15/house-votes-today-another-1200-stimulus-check-200-billion-for-hazard-pay-extended-unemployment/

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

I saw people asking where our surplus went. In case people have forgotten, we're one of the most indebted nations in the world. Our government debt is well over 200 billion.

The aim is to stop the economy collapsing, long term unemployment of 40% will kill any country.

Is it that hard to figure out

Danzy · 17-05-2020 10:37AM

road_high wrote: »

I doubt that very much. Everyone wants to see taxpayers money spent sensibly. Paying people more to sit at home doing nothing vs working is insanity by any stretch

Your approach is certain to deliver a prolonged and deep economic collapse.

It's pouring petrol on a fire and proclaiming your fierce practical approach.

The aim is to reduce the economic damage, reduce unemployment, for most of us that is a good thing.

Banana Republic 1 · 17-05-2020 11:17AM

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Unemployed in us being paid a lot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/terinaallen/2020/05/15/house-votes-today-another-1200-stimulus-check-200-billion-for-hazard-pay-extended-unemployment/

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

I saw people asking where our surplus went. In case people have forgotten, we're one of the most indebted nations in the world. Our government debt is well over 200 billion.

Bankers

splashuum · 17-05-2020 05:33PM

LuasSimon wrote: »

This is what has happened in so many towns and villages , where once there were 20 travellers , a generation later there’s 200 . A lot of travellers have more disposable income than the working family’s who are paying the taxes for social welfare.

Numbers of travellers in Ireland is totally undercounted due to travellers not bothering to fill in census forms . 70-80,000 a far more accurate number with close on 100% on welfare . Mate who did the census reckons a third of them maximum filled in the forms in his town and the guards laughed at him when he reported it saying it was a waste of time going after them . A perfect smokescreen to show there’s only 30,000 travellers , we’re not that big a drain on resources etc etc ...

We're talking approx 1 Billion euro per annum spent on welfare for travelers.

Cupatae · 17-05-2020 05:43PM

splashuum wrote: »

We're talking approx 1 Billion euro per annum spent on welfare for travelers.

How much is being wheeled and dealed out of the country by the suits tho? why doesn't anyone discuss this middle to upper class version of scum? Is it because they "Work" for there vasts amount of wealth :pac::D:D

Beechwoodspark · 17-05-2020 05:49PM

I sincerely hope DSP and revenue pursue anyone who has fraudulently claimed the 350 through the courts.

350 was always “ripe” for fraud. It’s too high.

Geuze · 17-05-2020 06:53PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Debt isn't necessarily a bad thing, its a critical component of our money supply, the velocity of money is collapsing, one of the best ways to increase this, is by increasing the money supply, and one of the best ways to do this is by increasing the debt. Reducing the debt has the opposite effect, and slows a recovery

The narrow money supply consists of cash in circulation plus demand deposits.

The money supply in the USA is rising during this pandemic.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1

It has risen from 4 trn to 5 trn USD.

beggars_bush · 17-05-2020 07:37PM

splashuum wrote: »

We're talking approx 1 Billion euro per annum spent on welfare for travelers.

There is no chance that is true

kippy · 17-05-2020 08:23PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

There is no chance that is true

About 20k per person assuming 50k travellers....
Not exactly pie in the sky when you add everything up.

splashuum · 17-05-2020 08:23PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

There is no chance that is true

Why not?

If you calculate €1,000 per week per traveler family (as already calculated above) you will reach those sort of astronomical figures. This doesn’t even include the hundreds of millions that have been spent on traveler accommodation.

splashuum · 17-05-2020 08:24PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

There is no chance that is true

Why not?

If you calculate €1,000 per week per traveler family (as already calculated above) you will reach those sort of astronomical figures. This doesn’t even include the hundreds of millions that has been and is continuing to be spent on traveler accommodation.

17-05-2020 08:35PM

kippy wrote: »

About 20k per person assuming 50k travellers....
Not exactly pie in the sky when you add everything up.

You’re multiplying an approximate family rate with number of individual people.

kippy · 17-05-2020 08:41PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You’re multiplying an approximate family rate with number of individual people.

When you add in or attach a value to all of the supports this group get you'll find it wouldn't be an excessive figure to arrive at.

17-05-2020 08:44PM

kippy wrote: »

When you add in or attach a value to all of the supports this group get you'll find it wouldn't be an excessive figure to arrive at.

A billion is stretching it a bit.

Jim Root · 17-05-2020 08:53PM

I keep seeing thus COVID payment being described as temporary, which reminds me of when they brought in the USC “temporary” charges. Makes you wonder.

For what it’s worth I think the government had the right idea but Ireland, being Ireland, there’s plenty of flaws and loopholes in it. Best to turn off the tap as quick as possible.

RandomViewer · 17-05-2020 08:56PM

Jim Root wrote: »

I keep seeing thus COVID payment being described as temporary, which reminds me of when they brought in the USC “temporary” charges. Makes you wonder.

For what it’s worth I think the government had the right idea but Ireland, being Ireland, there’s plenty of flaws and loopholes in it. Best to turn off the tap as quick as possible.

Banks are crying already, it's here till October at least and then some tweaks until January, gone then

kippy · 17-05-2020 09:04PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A billion is stretching it a bit.

How much do you reckon it's stretching it?

Beasty · 17-05-2020 09:08PM

Off topic posts removed. Final warning - discuss the €350 a week and it's impact on the State's finances, not other welfare (or indeed non-welfare) issues

And to be clear, as some posters don't seem to understand. Discussing or replying to mod warnings is also off topic. If you have an issue with moderation, or indeed interpreting a mod instruction, take it to PM

Lainey831 · 17-05-2020 09:08PM

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

They are getting stimulus payment, unemployment benefit to those who qualify and a pandemic payment to everyone regardless of who
qualifies but whose employment is affected by covid 19 . However, it differs between States and good for them reacting so well for their citizens and deservedly - no one was prepared for this pandemic!

Of course, taxpayers deserve the covid 19 payment and the govt responded well and quickly. For many people the payment is a fraction of their salary since their place of businesses shut down without warning a. This is exactly why I thought we pay PRSI. Covid 19 benefit is needed,It was a very good move to help people through no choice of their own have been forced into unemployment until depending on what phase they fall under can return to employment, hopefully!

Antares35 · 18-05-2020 06:42AM

Lainey831 wrote: »

There's getting another cheque but also they're getting a Pandemic payment too. Friend in Chicago was describing it and was surprised how generous it sounded, cannot find an exact reference on web as yet...

They are getting stimulus payment, unemployment benefit to those who qualify and a pandemic payment to everyone regardless of who
qualifies but whose employment is affected by covid 19 . However, it differs between States and good for them reacting so well for their citizens and deservedly - no one was prepared for this pandemic!

Of course, taxpayers deserve the covid 19 payment and the govt responded well and quickly. For many people the payment is a fraction of their salary since their place of businesses shut down without warning a. This is exactly why I thought we pay PRSI. Covid 19 benefit is needed,It was a very good move to help people through no choice of their own have been forced into unemployment until depending on what phase they fall under can return to employment, hopefully!

Back in the day... The PR in PRSI stood for pay related.

completedit · 18-05-2020 07:07AM

Greece. Don't sweat the debt. Ab economy is the sum of its parts and poorer people spend more money. There's no morality to it, just what works and saves the country from the austerity trap. I think part of the problem is that people equate personal debt with government debt but they aren't the same.

What Username Guidelines · 18-05-2020 07:41PM

Any idea how many people or approx % will come off the payment today given the sectors back to work?

RandomViewer · 18-05-2020 07:49PM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Any idea how many people or approx % will come off the payment today given the sectors back to work?

Some will have been furloughed ,

Fred Cryton · 19-05-2020 09:37AM

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Any idea how many people or approx % will come off the payment today given the sectors back to work?

Not a large percentage, perhaps 10 -15% of those taking it. Construction employs up to 150,000 but not all of them will be back straight away.

There's a chicken and egg situation going on as well. Because the payment acts as a dis-incentive to work, people are not going off it especially if they were on minimum wage. Hearing lots of stories of employers who cannot get staff to come back. Why would they when the government pays them more to sit on their backside. Paradoxically the longer this perverse incentive continues this actually increases the pressure to keep the payment, because the usual suspects say they need it!

It's typically Irish circular logic.

Wanderer78 · 19-05-2020 09:39AM

Fred Cryton wrote:

It's typically Irish circular logic.

Or maybe there's something wrong with minimum paid jobs!

The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

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