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The 350 a week was a catastrophic and costly mistake

  • 08-05-2020 11:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    No other country made people better off on welfare than when they had been working. 500,000 people are now better off taking the 350 and sitting on their backsides than they had been before this crisis when working. It's going to be enormously difficult to get these people back into the workforce now. Any politician trying to reduce the payment to incentivise work will be branded a right wing thatcherite by the usual suspects.



    Who's going to go back to a minimum wage job 20 hours a week when they can earn nearly double that from the taxpayer while not having to work? This will starve businesses of much needed workers just when they need to get back going.



    The costs to the exchequer are enormous. We could build a new hospital every month with the amount of money this is costing the state. Did anyone think of this? We have Regina Doherty, mother goose of the nation herself, to thank for this mess.


    The key question is WHY IS IRELAND DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY TO OTHER NATIONS?. When you have to ask this question, you know we've c**ked up.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    No other country made people better off on welfare than when they had been working. 500,000 people are now better off taking the 350 and sitting on their backsides than they had been before this crisis when working. It's going to be enormously difficult to get these people back into the workforce now. Any politician trying to reduce the payment to incentivise work will be branded a right wing thatcherite by the usual suspects.



    Who's going to go back to a minimum wage job 20 hours a week when they can earn nearly double that from the taxpayer while not having to work? This will starve businesses of much needed workers just when they need to get back going.



    The costs to the exchequer are enormous. We could build a new hospital every month with the amount of money this is costing the state. Did anyone think of this? We have Regina Doherty, mother goose of the nation herself, to thank for this mess.


    The key question is WHY IS IRELAND DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY TO OTHER NATIONS?. When you have to ask this question, you know we've c**ked up.

    the UK has very generous supports at present


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,092 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi


    500,000 people are now better off taking the 350 and sitting on their backsides than they had been before this crisis when working.

    Where did you get this figure, out of interest?


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    BoatMad wrote: »
    the UK has very generous supports at present


    They tie it to the salary earned before the crisis. There is no equivalent of a flat payment of 350.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    I would say the complete opposite . This temporary payment will reduce people getting into debt during this time . This increased payment is mostly for people who were legally working and are now unemployed through no fault of their own.

    By giving this payment now we are placing people in a good position to spend when the economy reopens . They will spend in restaurants bars and hotels all of which are labour intensive industries which will boost employment fast.

    Educate yourself on economics , listen to some podcasts such as David McWilliams .


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    They tie it to the salary earned before the crisis. There is no equivalent of a flat payment of 350.

    ours is banded , and if you earn 80,000 before , you get nothing


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭ Seamai


    I'm certainly not better off on €350, I'm down almost €250 a week for the last 7 weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    I would say the complete opposite . This temporary payment will reduce people getting into debt during this time . This increased payment is mostly for people who were legally working and are now unemployed through no fault of their own.

    By giving this payment now we are placing people in a good position to spend when the economy reopens . They will spend in restaurants bars and hotels all of which are labour intensive industries which will boost employment fast.

    Educate yourself on economics , listen to some podcasts such as David McWilliams .


    I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 Blaze420


    They tie it to the salary earned before the crisis. There is no equivalent of a flat payment of 350.

    You do know it's a temporary payment and won't be around forever?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭ Plumbthedepths


    No other country made people better off on welfare than when they had been working. 500,000 people are now better off taking the 350 and sitting on their backsides than they had been before this crisis when working. It's going to be enormously difficult to get these people back into the workforce now. Any politician trying to reduce the payment to incentivise work will be branded a right wing thatcherite by the usual suspects.



    Who's going to go back to a minimum wage job 20 hours a week when they can earn nearly double that from the taxpayer while not having to work? This will starve businesses of much needed workers just when they need to get back going.



    The costs to the exchequer are enormous. We could build a new hospital every month with the amount of money this is costing the state. Did anyone think of this? We have Regina Doherty, mother goose of the nation herself, to thank for this mess.


    The key question is WHY IS IRELAND DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY TO OTHER NATIONS?. When you have to ask this question, you know we've c**ked up.

    Do you know what 'temporary measure' means?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭ JohnnyFlash


    Educate yourself on economics , listen to some podcasts such as David McWilliams .

    Bit of an oxymoron there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    Where did you get this figure, out of interest?


    This is number of part time workers in the economy who earned less than 350 a week pre-crisis. Publicly available information, you shouldn't have to ask. You should have looked it up yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    You do know it's a temporary payment and won't be around forever?


    Is that like the way the USC was supposed to be a temporary tax?


    The usual suspects will try to make 350 the new baseline for welfare payments.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭ El Gato De Negocios


    No other country made people better off on welfare than when they had been working. 500,000 people are now better off taking the 350 and sitting on their backsides than they had been before this crisis when working. It's going to be enormously difficult to get these people back into the workforce now. Any politician trying to reduce the payment to incentivise work will be branded a right wing thatcherite by the usual suspects.



    Who's going to go back to a minimum wage job 20 hours a week when they can earn nearly double that from the taxpayer while not having to work? This will starve businesses of much needed workers just when they need to get back going.



    The costs to the exchequer are enormous. We could build a new hospital every month with the amount of money this is costing the state. Did anyone think of this? We have Regina Doherty, mother goose of the nation herself, to thank for this mess.


    The key question is WHY IS IRELAND DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY TO OTHER NATIONS?. When you have to ask this question, you know we've c**ked up.

    Some people are better off ie those working part time hours.

    Some will break even or there abouts.

    Some will be worse off.

    The figure of 500,000 you are touting is waaaaaaay off and besides, the payment is not there for good, it has a shelf life and one would suspect that those that want to return to work and have the opportunity to do so will return to work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

    A master's means little without real life experience to back it up . Your austerity policy would doom us to a significant elongated recessionary period.

    The fact you call him a charaltan and a spoofer just tells me you don't want to consider opinions that are contrary to your own . Debate in this thread with you is a pointless task as you mind is made.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭ Plumbthedepths


    I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

    You have a master's in Economics? Why do I find it hard too believe you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 904 Blaze420


    Is that like the way the USC was supposed to be a temporary tax?


    The usual suspects will try to make 350 the new baseline for welfare payments.

    That's just tinfoil hat stuff - a welfare payment of that level is not sustainable and is an emergency measure only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,702 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    People who were only getting 20 hours a week before were almost certainly already getting partial benefit topup anyway, via X and 0's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,692 ✭✭✭ SteM


    Is that like the way the USC was supposed to be a temporary tax?


    The usual suspects will try to make 350 the new baseline for welfare payments.

    The USC is income that the country came to rely on. This temporary payment is an outgoing that it cannot possible afford in the medium or long term. Why would you compare the two?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    People who were only getting 20 hours a week before were almost certainly already getting partial benefit topup anyway, via X and 0's.

    On top of this people who were part time and now have a few extra quid will spend it , they aren't burying it in savings as they were not high earners . All beneficial to the economy


  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭ Cal4567


    I would say the complete opposite . This temporary payment will reduce people getting into debt during this time . This increased payment is mostly for people who were legally working and are now unemployed through no fault of their own.

    By giving this payment now we are placing people in a good position to spend when the economy reopens . They will spend in restaurants bars and hotels all of which are labour intensive industries which will boost employment fast.

    Educate yourself on economics , listen to some podcasts such as David McWilliams .

    Agree with all of this. A very sensible move given that people had to get out of their offices, their factories etc and get home and stay at home, with very little notice. Yes, it has to be reduced in line with re-opening but there is enough evidence out there that the lower the income you have, the more is spent and put back into the economy.

    It's not just us in Ireland who are suffering. We are literally in this together with most of the rest of the world. I'm confident we will have an international stimulus plan, the only query at the moment, is when that will be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭ barneystinson


    This is number of part time workers in the economy who earned less than 350 a week pre-crisis. Publicly available information, you shouldn't have to ask. You should have looked it up yourself.

    If you’ve a masters you should definitely know you need to cite reputable sources when making assertions. It’s all just spoof otherwise :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    A master's means little without real life experience to back it up . Your austerity policy would doom us to a significant elongated recessionary period.

    The fact you call him a charaltan and a spoofer just tells me you don't want to consider opinions that are contrary to your own . Debate in this thread with you is a pointless task as you mind is made.


    What's your real life experience? Come to think of it, what's David McWilliams real life experience. I believe he worked in a bank in London for a few years, wow. He must be so wise.


    It's not austerity. If not working, people should have been getting the 200 per week. As normal. People on low wages pay very little tax anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    It's not just us in Ireland who are suffering. We are literally in this together with most of the rest of the world. I'm confident we will have an international stimulus plan, the only query at the moment, is when that will be.

    there is no evidence of any form of " international " cooperation and every evidence of a race to get out of lockdown and avoid being a tail end charlie, ( like Ireland )


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭ 2ndcoming


    I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

    :pac::pac::pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,092 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi


    This is number of part time workers in the economy who earned less than 350 a week pre-crisis. Publicly available information, you shouldn't have to ask. You should have looked it up yourself.

    Seeing as you're the one making the claim, how about you provide a source for it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,501 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    Has to be a troll. Nobody with an economics masters and some real life experience could realistically be so simple


  • Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭ Mr_Muffin


    I don't get the payment as I'm still working, but I'm glad we live in a country that can, and does, give such a payment.

    Sure, many people are in a better position now they would have been, but it's temporary. Also, no one knew how this whole virus situation was going to unfold and as a result, it was easier/more efficient in the short term to give a blanked payment of 350 euro than to quickly come up with some sort of means test or similar test to decide who gets what.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    I have a Masters in the subject, thanks so much. McWilliams is a charaltan and a spoofer, yeah free money into everyones account. Sure why not make everyone a millionaire so, what could possibly go wrong.

    no but in a fiat currency , facing deflation and negative interest rates , it makes simple sense to helicopter money directly into peoples hands , you taper it back as inflation rises ( some inflation is better then deflation )


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭ RandomViewer


    Seamai wrote: »
    I'm certainly not better off on €350, I'm down almost €250 a week for the last 7 weeks.

    Same here, the OP seems to think everyone is part time , minimum wage


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  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭ yerwanthere123


    Death, taxes and boards.ie keyboard warriors stirring up faux outrage about the unemployed.


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