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Masks

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Comments

  • #2432
    standardg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,633 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Arrival wrote: »
    A family member of someone in my office has passed away from it just the other day, a colleague of one of my brother's friends also passed away from it, and I know someone who's had it and recovered. This will increase as time goes on for all of us, just because nobody you know hasn't had it yet doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

    Yes, I absolutely plan to when it's possible. You're willfully ignorant if you think they've done a great job here; again with the comparisons to the UK shows how you just don't want to face comparisons with countries which have objectively handled it well, instead opting for pathetic back patting and superficial comfort by only comparing us with our closest neighbours who've done an objectively **** job

    When you were in school did you compare yourself and your grades with the class clown to try and see where you could improve or did you compare yourself with the top of the class and see what they done to manage to get on so we'll? Probably the class clown to be honest if this is how bad your reasoning skills are, can picture you taking comfort thinking "ha well at least I'm not as thick as them"

    That is one of the worst and most misguided analogies i've ever heard. Comparing yourself to your classmates is exactly the same as comparing the country to it's nearest neighbours.
    What you're suggesting is you should compare yourself to a student on a desert island where pigeon is both the main dish and method of communication.

    I'm sorry if you've had personal experience of the virus but just because you have had doesn't mean everyone will, and the figures support that.


  • #2433
    Arrival
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    standardg60 wrote: »
    That is one of the worst and most misguided analogies i've ever heard. Comparing yourself to your classmates is exactly the same as comparing the country to it's nearest neighbours.
    What you're suggesting is you should compare yourself to a student on a desert island where pigeon is both the main dish and method of communication.

    I'm sorry if you've had personal experience of the virus but just because you have had doesn't mean everyone will, and the figures support that.

    The analogy is to say you should compare yourself with others who are doing better so you can see how to improve yourself, and this is no different for a business or company or country. What do you think businesses do when they have strong competitors? Look at the weakest ones and call it a day? They don't figure out how to get ahead by doing that and the point I've been trying to drive home for you is that our government must do the same with the countries which have done better than us. And geographical location does not factor into this as this virus effects everyone the same the world over, it's a global issue and so global comparisons are absolutely better than just looking at our closest neighbours.

    Maybe that would be the case if we didn't have morons vehemently arguing pettily against measures which other countries have found effective. The current figures are a result of the lockdown, do you believe they're going to remain the same indefinitely or something? We can't stay in lockdown forever and the virus isn't disappearing, so what do you imagine happens when we lift restrictions? It picks up spreading in the community again; something masks and social distancing are intended to reduce


  • #2434
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    Whats so bad about having to wear a fcuking mask if you're in a busy public place anyway? I really don't understand people's resistance to this.


  • #2435
    standardg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,633 ✭✭✭standardg60


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Whats so bad about having to wear a fcuking mask if you're in a busy public place anyway? I really don't understand people's resistance to this.

    Personally, because i know i don't have the virus i in no way want to touch my face with unwashed hands when i'm out. I haven't caught the virus because i've socially distanced when no-one was wearing a mask. The guidelines are still that you need to have spent 15 mins in close contact with an infected person to be infected and just walking by someone is not a factor.


  • #2436
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    standardg60 wrote: »
    Personally, because i know i don't have the virus i in no way want to touch my face with unwashed hands when i'm out. I haven't caught the virus because i've socially distanced when no-one was wearing a mask. The guidelines are still that you need to have spent 15 mins in close contact with an infected person to be infected and just walking by someone is not a factor.

    Half the pople who get this virus get no symptoms but can still spread it. It takes several days to develop symptoms after you get infected and during that time you can infect others. This is partly what allowed it to spread all over the world so fast compared to ebola or H1N1. So no, you don't know that you don't have the virus. Why not just wear the mask when you're out and about and don't touch your face. Its very simple.


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  • #2437
    Arrival
    Closed Accounts Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Arrival


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Half the pople who get this virus get no symptoms but can still spread it. It takes several days to develop symptoms after you get infected and during that time you can infect others. This is partly what allowed it to spread all over the world so fast compared to ebola or H1N1. So no, you don't know that you don't have the virus. Why not just wear the mask when you're out and about and don't touch your face. Its very simple.

    Some people just cannot wrap their head around the asymptomatic spreading issue; perhaps if it was a one syllable word it could grab their short attention spans a bit easier. Wishful thinking though I'd say


  • #2438
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    Yes: other
    Unfortunately the nature of this virus means we have to assume everyone has it.

    You can be an asymptomatic spreader for up to 17 days.

    Masking people is an obvious source of preventing spread and contracting it.

    Ideally everyone should wear eye protection too.

    I personally wear FFP2 grade mask with goggles everytime I leave the house.

    3M brand is the Best Brand in short supply.
    KN95 is a good alternative although not 100% deal.
    Half or full face respirators can also be used.
    Irish people are often willfully ignorant.
    The government had lied to the Irish public on this one.

    A healthcare professional will not enter the room of a covid patient without being masked and goggled and gowned and gloves.

    HSE policy is now everyone wears masks in work due to high volume of asymptomatic spreaders infecting over 6000 HCW.

    The masks don’t lose their function once you step outside the hospital guys.

    It is honestly Common sense, something that seems to be lacking in a lot of Irish people.


  • #2439
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Yes: surgical
    Arrival wrote: »
    Some people just cannot wrap their head around the asymptomatic spreading issue; perhaps if it was a one syllable word it could grab their short attention spans a bit easier. Wishful thinking though I'd say
    Vectors is still two. Vectors of transmission, VOTs. People who spread this without symptoms are such a load of VOTs.


  • #2440
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes: homemade
    standardg60 wrote: »
    Don't you see you are still perpetuating my argument? Others can see it as they haven't replied.

    Others read it and dismissed it. Don't assume anybody agrees or accepts your point simply because they couldn't be bothered replying to it.


  • #2441
    Seanergy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    standardg60 wrote: »
    Hmmm are you resorting to attacking the poster rather than the posts?

    I see you haven't answered the honest question i posed to you earlier?

    Have you evidence that touching the front of a homemade mask is not going to transfer the virus through it?

    If I am to answer your first Question I need to know if it is directed to me to or the user Hmmm that I was replying to in post #2420

    Regarding your 2nd question, would you be so kind as to reference which post you are referring to?

    It might be best if you clear up your first two questions.

    Maybe you could also explain to me what makes your question honest? By inserting the word honest infront of your question I'm start to question how honest your questioning is.


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  • #2442
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    Yes: surgical
    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Unfortunately the nature of this virus means we have to assume everyone has it.

    You can be an asymptomatic spreader for up to 17 days.

    Masking people is an obvious source of preventing spread and contracting it.

    Ideally everyone should wear eye protection too.

    I personally wear FFP2 grade mask with goggles everytime I leave the house.

    3M brand is the Best Brand in short supply.
    KN95 is a good alternative although not 100% deal.
    Half or full face respirators can also be used.
    Irish people are often willfully ignorant.
    The government had lied to the Irish public on this one.

    A healthcare professional will not enter the room of a covid patient without being masked and goggled and gowned and gloves.

    HSE policy is now everyone wears masks in work due to high volume of asymptomatic spreaders infecting over 6000 HCW.

    The masks don’t lose their function once you step outside the hospital guys.

    It is honestly Common sense, something that seems to be lacking in a lot of Irish people.

    The best and most concise post on masks I've seen. Nailed it.


  • #2443
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Unfortunately the nature of this virus means we have to assume everyone has it.

    You can be an asymptomatic spreader for up to 17 days.

    Masking people is an obvious source of preventing spread and contracting it.

    Ideally everyone should wear eye protection too.

    I personally wear FFP2 grade mask with goggles everytime I leave the house.

    3M brand is the Best Brand in short supply.
    KN95 is a good alternative although not 100% deal.
    Half or full face respirators can also be used.
    Irish people are often willfully ignorant.
    The government had lied to the Irish public on this one.

    A healthcare professional will not enter the room of a covid patient without being masked and goggled and gowned and gloves.

    HSE policy is now everyone wears masks in work due to high volume of asymptomatic spreaders infecting over 6000 HCW.

    The masks don’t lose their function once you step outside the hospital guys.

    It is honestly Common sense, something that seems to be lacking in a lot of Irish people.
    Hmm, another why isn't everyone like me post. It's your own personal choice and good luck with that. Not that much common sense seeing as you have insulted the majority of the population at large and not even bothered to factor in the mental travails in such a scenario.


  • #2444
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    standardg60 wrote: »
    The guidelines are still that you need to have spent 15 mins in close contact with an infected person to be infected and just walking by someone is not a factor.
    That "guideline" had been quietly dropped everywhere, because it's a complete bloody nonsense and an obvious one. So you're risk free at 14 minutes, but infected at 16? By this logic and I use the word advisedly medical staff wouldn't need any PPE going into a covid ward just timers that set off alarms at 10 minutes to remind them to leave within the allotted time.

    Oh and this has been known to be nonsense for quite a while. The contact tracing on the first known German patient who spread the virus to a load of people showed this. One became infected after asking for a salt cellar at lunch, another by sharing a lift across two floors, another in a brief meeting.
    hmmm wrote: »
    Iceland.
    The most sparsely populated country in Europe and one of the most sparsely populated on the planet, who did massive testing and contact tracing and quarantining of the positives and incoming travellers. That Iceland? Oh and we've done pretty much none of the above.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Hmm, another why isn't everyone like me post. It's your own personal choice and good luck with that.
    And another who simply can't understand asymptomatic spread and why it's about the community not "personal choice" that reduces risk. If I say feck it, don't wash my hands, don't maintain social distance, is that "personal choice" and you'd wish me good luck with that?
    Not that much common sense seeing as you have insulted the majority of the population at large and not even bothered to factor in the mental travails in such a scenario.
    Christ, if I hear any more about the mental health issues around wearing a bloody mask... Over the last decade, it seems no matter what subject comes up you are near guaranteed to have the #whataboutmentalhealth brigade hoving into view almost always in the form of an excuse to have a whinge. You'd swear we were a nation of bloody neurotics at this stage. It seems we may be if Koreans and Czechs don't break down in gibbering panic attacks at the thought of wearing a cloth on the face. Never mind that most of the nope no masks people have also "insulted" the Irish by saying that the vast majority are too stupid/ignorant to wear a mask correctly.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #2445
    mikhail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Arlessienne wrote: »
    Has anyone ordered the reusable ones from Vistaprint? They are expensive, but they look to much better fitting than any of the other ones I see for sale.
    I quite like the disclaimer at the foot of their display on the homepage:
    "Not to be used as medical devices or personal protective equipment (PPE)."


  • #2446
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    Wibbs wrote: »
    And another who simply can't understand asymptomatic spread and why it's about the community not "personal choice" that reduces risk. If I say feck it, don't wash my hands, don't maintain social distance, is that "personal choice" and you'd wish me good luck with that?

    Christ, if I hear any more about the mental health issues around wearing a bloody mask... Over the last decade, it seems no matter what subject comes up you are near guaranteed to have the #whataboutmentalhealth brigade hoving into view almost always in the form of an excuse to have a whinge. You'd swear we were a nation of bloody neurotics at this stage. It seems we may be if Koreans and Czechs don't break down in gibbering panic attacks at the thought of wearing a cloth on the face. Never mind that most of the nope no masks people have also "insulted" the Irish by saying that the vast majority are too stupid/ignorant to wear a mask correctly.
    This is just another form of tone-deafness, the self-righteous version. Wear a mask or I will abuse you unrelentingly and that's fine. Intolerant but honest. It is your choice to mask up just as it is someone else's choice to be informed otherwise.


  • #2447
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Yes: surgical
    Ive noticed way more masks and face coverings out and about since Friday.


  • #2448
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    khalessi wrote: »
    Ive noticed way more masks and face coverings out and about since Friday.

    I saw 3 out of about 50 people and that included two dozen inside and outside Lidl.


  • #2449
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Yes: surgical
    is_that_so wrote: »
    I saw 3 out of about 50 people and that included two dozen inside and outside Lidl.

    Could just be luck, the time of day or where we both live, though it is weird seeing people out walking in the local estates wearing them. Maybe tomorrow I will just see one and you could see 10 who knows, anyhows just where I am there are noticably more.


  • #2450
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    khalessi wrote: »
    Could just be luck, the time of day or where we both live, though it is weird seeing people out walking in the local estates wearing them. Maybe tomorrow I will just see one and you could see 10 who knows, anyhows just where I am there are noticeably more.
    Yeah I thought that too although it has been about 1 in 10 all the way through.


  • #2451
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    is_that_so wrote: »
    This is just another form of tone-deafness, the self-righteous version. Wear a mask or I will abuse you unrelentingly and that's fine. Intolerant but honest. It is your choice to mask up just as it is someone else's choice to be informed otherwise.
    You accuse me of being tone deaf, yet can't seem to wrap your head around the idea of a community effort to halt the virus and get our lives back? It's all about "personal choice", IE I'll do what I want.

    I note you didn't answer my question re social distancing or hand washing. I could go and be "informed" that social distancing has little enough science behind it and the two metre rule certainly doesn't and that I require extended close contact to catch or spread this virus(see above someone who still firmly believes the 15 minute rule), so as I'm now informed otherwise to government recommendations is it now my choice to ignore them?

    This is by its very nature a community disease and it requires a communal effort to stop it. Individual choice is way down the list of priorities, or should be.

    Oh and if you think anything I've said is "unrelenting abuse" you must be fierce sensitive.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #2452
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    Wibbs wrote: »
    You accuse me of being tone deaf, yet can't seem to wrap your head around the idea of a community effort to halt the virus and get our lives back? It's all about "personal choice", IE I'll do what I want.

    I note you didn't answer my question re social distancing or hand washing. I could go and be "informed" that social distancing has little enough science behind it and the two metre rule certainly doesn't and that I require extended close contact to catch or spread this virus(see above someone who still firmly believes the 15 minute rule), so as I'm now informed otherwise to government recommendations is it now my choice to ignore them?

    This is by its very nature a community disease and it requires a communal effort to stop it. Individual choice is way down the list of priorities, or should be.
    This all boils down to your irritation with our public health response, your own personal attitude to it and that you seem to feel a need to push your approach to it. I learnt from the very start of this that people have very different ways of dealing with it, yours is just one, mine another.
    As for the two key components, there is a logic to them that is absolutely inescapable. They are also very simple things to get people to remember and do. Mood music on masks is very mixed and their use has been a choice by people and governments. On their own they are not going to cut it especially if applied improperly or there is a lot of face touching. The approach here is to make it a choice. Some people may do, some may not, leave them to their own choices. I do wonder though whether people in favour of mandatory masks are convinced that this virus is absolutely everywhere and that we can almost get it by breathing. That too is another way of dealing with it.


  • #2453
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Yes: valved
    mikhail wrote: »
    I quite like the disclaimer at the foot of their display on the homepage:
    "Not to be used as medical devices or personal protective equipment (PPE)."

    I see that on every single place selling masks, including some selling supposed surgical masks.


  • #2454
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    is_that_so wrote: »
    This is just another form of tone-deafness, the self-righteous version. Wear a mask or I will abuse you unrelentingly and that's fine. Intolerant but honest. It is your choice to mask up just as it is someone else's choice to be informed otherwise.

    Are you saying that people can’t spread the virus without knowing they have it? Because at this point it’s an established fact that large portion of people who get this virus get no symptoms but can still spread it. It’s also a fact that after you get infected you can infect others for a couple of days before you start getting symptoms (if get them at all).

    Can you not see how masks might help in this situation? I just can’t wrap my head around this attitude. It’s such a simple thing to just wear a mask or face covering when you’re out and about.

    Do you ignore social distancing and all the other guidelines as well?


  • #2455
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    MadYaker wrote: »
    Are you saying that people can’t spread the virus without knowing they have it? Because at this point it’s an established fact that large portion of people who get this virus get no symptoms but can still spread it. It’s also a fact that after you get infected you can infect others for a couple of days before you start getting symptoms (if get them at all).

    Can you not see how masks might help in this situation? I just can’t wrap my head around this attitude. It’s such a simple thing to just wear a mask or face covering when you’re out and about.

    Do you ignore social distancing and all the other guidelines as well?
    Nope, didn't any any of this. This is what is known as personal projection.


  • #2456
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    It’s established science not personal projection.


  • #2457
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    MadYaker wrote: »
    It’s established science not personal projection.
    Your previous post is personal projection and some very wild extrapolating.


  • #2458
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    is_that_so wrote: »
    This all boils down to your irritation with our public health response, your own personal attitude to it and that you seem to feel a need to push your approach to it.
    If I feel any need it's the need to push the approaches of nations that have at least ten times fewer dead corpses piled up, nations who are through the apparent worst of it and are restarting their lives and economies, rather than the nearly always half arsed and delayed amateur hour efforts of our authorities. On that score guilty as charged.
    As for the two key components, there is a logic to them that is absolutely inescapable.
    Yet there is no inescapable logic in protecting the primary route by which infection spreads? Sometimes I really wonder about what passes for logic with some. And again more about improper use. Is everyone washing their hands correctly for at least 20 seconds and at the right times? Is everyone socially distancing? Nope, yet we believe these are making a difference and they are, yet masks have to be 100% perfect use or pointless?
    I do wonder though whether people in favour of mandatory masks are convinced that this virus is absolutely everywhere and that we can almost get it by breathing.
    Eh... that's precisely how you contract the virus, either by directly breathing in droplets containing viruses, or by transferring virus containing droplets to your mouth/nose and breathing it in that way. It's a respiratory disease, the clue is in the name.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #2459
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yes: other
    MadYaker wrote: »
    It’s established science not personal projection.
    I don't think you quite understand what personal projection means and merely use it because it sounds like something that might appear to be cogent in reply.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #2460
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Your previous post is personal projection and some very wild extrapolating.

    Are you disputing the science around asymptomatic spread or do you just not understand what I’m talking about?


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  • #2461
    Mike3287
    Closed Accounts Posts: 379 ✭✭Mike3287


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Unfortunately the nature of this virus means we have to assume everyone has it.

    You can be an asymptomatic spreader for up to 17 days.

    Masking people is an obvious source of preventing spread and contracting it.

    Ideally everyone should wear eye protection too.

    I personally wear FFP2 grade mask with goggles everytime I leave the house.

    3M brand is the Best Brand in short supply.
    KN95 is a good alternative although not 100% deal.
    Half or full face respirators can also be used.
    Irish people are often willfully ignorant.
    The government had lied to the Irish public on this one.

    A healthcare professional will not enter the room of a covid patient without being masked and goggled and gowned and gloves.

    HSE policy is now everyone wears masks in work due to high volume of asymptomatic spreaders infecting over 6000 HCW.

    The masks don’t lose their function once you step outside the hospital guys.

    It is honestly Common sense, something that seems to be lacking in a lot of Irish people.

    A mask layered with a thin layer of dettol or disinfectant to kill virus on contact would be a good addition too, though probably not safe if inhaling the dettol, will have to think about that one


This discussion has been closed.
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