Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

the kelt · 17-05-2020 09:04AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If that is the case then we hold tight and let the nations we trust the most give us data and experience that we can trust to enact our own plan which is what is playing out at the moment. No one really knows what they are at during this and they are all shooting in the dark. Some countries took a moonshot and got away with it and everyone applauds like they are some kinds of geniuses when the reality is they took a calculated gamble which paid off. If it had backfired they would be hailed as monsters.

We all access situations in our personal lives, take gambles when appropriate after weighing up risk versus reward. Very few of us would take gambles which involve endanering our own lives and that is the kind of high stakes game currently is being asked of governments.

As another poster pointed on this page, memory seems in short supply of where we and other countires where only a short time back.

I’m sorry but there seems to be this naivety that every other country moving quicker is just taking a chance or taking a gamble with people lives.

But we are more careful and we care more, we love our children more, I mean that stuff is up there with tooth fairy belief.

Of course many of these countries actually have less cases, less deaths despite bigger populations and land borders with multiple countries, take the Czech Republic for example. How does that play out with the they are just gambling with people lives rhetoric.

Of all the arguments the we just care more and are more careful argument is truly cringe.

road_high · 17-05-2020 09:08AM

Paddygreen wrote: »

How many grannies is one job worth guys?

How many jobs sustain her pension, entitlements and free healthcare??

zerosugarbuzz · 17-05-2020 09:09AM

Paddygreen wrote: »

Dr Leo is the strongest leader this country has had since Brian Boru, he is the backbone of Ireland, a monolith of exemplary leadership. He has proven himself, forged the cutting edge of his trusty sword of leadership over many a fire, and honed it’s razor edge while fighting the war on coronavirus. I have no doubt there will be statues of this giant among men within our lifetime.

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lord quackinton · 17-05-2020 09:12AM

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/healthy-doses-of-sun-and-fresh-air-are-key-to-beating-virus-experience-suggests-39209911.html

Can we please all acknowledge the attached
Can we all acknowledge hiding away only increased the risk of the virus and increased mental health issues
Our nation is being paralysed by fear because of the poor decisions of those who would wish rule over us like gods
Our path forward lacks common sense and it’s confused logic will have us unnecessarily run up billions in debt and leave thousands on long term benefits

Our unbiased independent media also has deserted us. - they have backed this government while also using propaganda to push the message of how we should use this ‘crisis’ to Change - basically pushing for us to become a mixture of Stalinist Russia and Gretta thunbergs fantasies

Please can this thread now be closed - we won. It’s over

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:16AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

This main headline in the Independent says Ireland’s approach is conservative, is taking too long and will lose 200,000+ jobs.
How can the government stand over what they’re doing to the country?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bank-bailout-risk-in-covid-threat-to-jobs-39211137.html

This is definitely not the article one would want to wake up and read.

They need to open up the country, protect the elderly and nursing homes and stop paying those bloody empty private hospitals 115m per month.

They then need to issue vouchers to people to spend in their local businesses - Vienna's idea.

They need to do all of this by end of June or bailing out AIBs and BOIs is inevitable, as every businesses going bankrupt means bad loans. and BAD LOANS are the worst thing for any economy.

_Kaiser_ · 17-05-2020 09:17AM

Paddygreen wrote: »

Dr Leo is the strongest leader this country has had since Brian Boru, he is the backbone of Ireland, a monolith of exemplary leadership. He has proven himself, forged the cutting edge of his trusty sword of leadership over many a fire, and honed it’s razor edge while fighting the war on coronavirus. I have no doubt there will be statues of this giant among men within our lifetime.

I know this is a "comedy" account but seriously, no place for this nonsense here. Keep it to AH.

The impending recession and employment crisis that will affect hundreds of thousands of people (and many who never really felt the benefits of the "recovery" of the last few years anyway) is far more important than your continued attention-seeking.

17-05-2020 09:18AM

road_high wrote: »

How many jobs sustain her pension, entitlements and free healthcare??

It’s the social contract that exits in most countries. Work and pay taxes or raise the next generation of tax payers all your life in the knowledge that you will reap very few of the benefits while doing so, but also in the knowledge that when you can no longer work, that next generation will now be supporting you.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:24AM

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/healthy-doses-of-sun-and-fresh-air-are-key-to-beating-virus-experience-suggests-39209911.html

Can we please all acknowledge the attached
Can we all acknowledge hiding away only increased the risk of the virus and increased mental health issues
Our nation is being paralysed by fear because of the poor decisions of those who would wish rule over us like gods
Our path forward lacks common sense and it’s confused logic will have us unnecessarily run up billions in debt and leave thousands on long term benefits

Our unbiased independent media also has deserted us. - they have backed this government while also using propaganda to push the message of how we should use this ‘crisis’ to Change - basically pushing for us to become a mixture of Stalinist Russia and Gretta thunbergs fantasies

Please can this thread now be closed - we won. It’s over

And yet advice from Simon Harris and the government is "stay at home", as of 15th of May anyways.

"There is growing evidence that vitamin D is protective against coronavirus and that people with chronically low levels may be at greater risk.

A study by Trinity College Dublin published this week also shows vitamin D appears to help reduce serious complications with coronavirus.

Prof Neal said fresh air quickly dispersed any virus droplets in the atmosphere."

Soon our govt will be sued by more than just cancer patients missing out on screening or treatment.

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:24AM

Paddygreen wrote: »

How many grannies is one job worth guys?

Perhaps what we need to do is to look at all the causes of disease and premature death in this country and then either ban it or tax it.

1. ban cigarettes
2. Ban diesel cars with immediate effect
3. introduce Congestion charges in our cities to Reduce traffic
4. Introduce Punitive taxes on alcohol to discourage consumption
5. Introduce alcohol consumption limits
6. Substantial increase in the sugar tax and extend beyond drinks
7. Accelerate the ban on the internal combustion engine from 2030 to 2025. in the meantime a sharp increases in
8. Introduce punitive air taxes to reduce emissions in that area by disincentivising air travel
9. Halve the space available in our cities for road transport to shift to public transport, paths and cycle paths.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:26AM

Good news - reason is coming back

"Update: Hardware retailer Woodies has pulled back on a plan to ban under-16s from its stores when they open again on Monday.

Earlier this afternoon, it said staff were concerned about social distancing with children in the shop.

However, the store has reversed the decision."

Last thing we needed is to discriminate against age.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/covid-19-woodies-row-back-on-banning-under-16s-from-stores-999938.html

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:27AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Perhaps what we need to do is to look at all the causes of disease and premature death in this country and then either ban it or tax it.

1. ban cigarettes
2. Ban diesel cars with immediate effect
3. introduce Congestion charges in our cities to Reduce traffic
4. Introduce Punitive taxes on alcohol to discourage consumption
5. Introduce alcohol consumption limits
6. Substantial increase in the sugar tax and extend beyond drinks
7. Accelerate the ban on the internal combustion engine from 2030 to 2025. in the meantime a sharp increases in
8. Introduce punitive air taxes to reduce emissions in that area by disincentivising air travel
9. Halve the space available in our cities for road transport to shift to public transport, paths and cycle paths.

None of the above causes a pandemic the last time I checked or killed as much in the last 6 weeks

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:31AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

And yet advice from Simon Harris and the government is "stay at home", as of 15th of May anyways.

"There is growing evidence that vitamin D is protective against coronavirus and that people with chronically low levels may be at greater risk.

A study by Trinity College Dublin published this week also shows vitamin D appears to help reduce serious complications with coronavirus.

Prof Neal said fresh air quickly dispersed any virus droplets in the atmosphere."

Soon our govt will be sued by more than just cancer patients missing out on screening or treatment.

If vitamin d is so good, why are UAE, Qatar etc flying high in the numbers?

Fresh air theory? We have spent more time in fresh air over the last two months compare to normal, parks are full, people are exercising and relaxing . Numbers still went up.

Just two questions

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:31AM

average_runner wrote: »

None of the above causes a pandemic the last time I checked or killed as much in the last 6 weeks

Really? Air quality is a consistent killer. Diabetes causes multiple diseases. Alcohol is the big health timebomb and smoking kills. Over 31500 people died in 2019.

Paddygreen · 17-05-2020 09:32AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I know this is a "comedy" account but seriously, no place for this nonsense here. Keep it to AH.

The impending recession and employment crisis that will affect hundreds of thousands of people (and many who never really felt the benefits of the "recovery" of the last few years anyway) is far more important than your continued attention-seeking.

All we can really do is listen to the experts I’m afraid. No amount of jobs is worth a single death. The government has to stall the ball and keep people focused on the most pressing issue- the war on coronavirus, or people might panic about the implosion of the economy, which is small potatoes compared to coronavirus . The esteemed experts say we have to stay the course, that’s good enough for me.

lord quackinton · 17-05-2020 09:32AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s the social contract that exits in most countries. Work and pay taxes or raise the next generation of tax payers all your life in the knowledge that you will reap very few of the benefits while doing so, but also in the knowledge that when you can no longer work, that next generation will now be supporting you.

A social contract that was drawn up when retirement was 65 and most people were dead by 70
Since 2000 5 years has been added to life expectancy in Ireland which now sits at 82
And how have Europe inc Ireland decided to deal with the ticking time bomb, take in millions of immigrants to substantially increase their population of low skilled cheap labour which will drive growth And keep inflation down

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:34AM

average_runner wrote: »

If vitamin d is so good, why are UAE, Qatar etc flying high in the numbers?

Fresh air theory? We have spent more time in fresh air over the last two months compare to normal, parks are full, people are exercising and relaxing . Numbers still went up.

Just two questions

No the numbers did not go up. They have reduced substantially. Saying otherwise is fake news.

This virus was circulating 3 months ago and that is when most of the damage was done.

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:35AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I know this is a "comedy" account but seriously, no place for this nonsense here. Keep it to AH.

The impending recession and employment crisis that will affect hundreds of thousands of people (and many who never really felt the benefits of the "recovery" of the last few years anyway) is far more important than your continued attention-seeking.

Recession will be short lived. Alot of medical companies are booming right now. IT is still going strong.

Things will change but that be for the better. Less pubs for example. Hopefully we continue with new pace of life, seeing families in the park, neighbour's building a community instead of all rushing around

iamwhoiam · 17-05-2020 09:35AM

average_runner wrote: »

If vitamin d is so good, why are UAE, Qatar etc flying high in the numbers?

Fresh air theory? We have spent more time in fresh air over the last two months compare to normal, parks are full, people are exercising and relaxing . Numbers still went up.

Just two questions

What are the Vit D levels in the populations of UAE or Qater ?

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:35AM

average_runner wrote: »

If vitamin d is so good, why are UAE, Qatar etc flying high in the numbers?

Fresh air theory? We have spent more time in fresh air over the last two months compare to normal, parks are full, people are exercising and relaxing . Numbers still went up.

Just two questions

Listen I dont know why these published scientific studies tells us that Vitamin D helps greatly against Covid and fresh air evaporates covid very fast.

I am not a scientist. Read the article, read the scientific studies.

Jaysus, Brazil is a pretty hot country and they have 0.0007% of population dying off covid.

growleaves · 17-05-2020 09:36AM

https://orthodoxethos.com/post/the-coronavirus-crisis-letter-from-the-holy-mountain

Ever since the Lord performed the Mystical Supper and handed down the most holy mystery of the Divine Eucharist, the world-saving Divine Liturgy has not ceased to be celebrated to this day.

Neither Diocletian, nor the Turks, nor the Communists in Russia, nor the Germans during the years of the occupation managed to stop the Divine Liturgy and the faithful from approaching Holy Communion. And now, with the fear of the virus, the churches have closed down and the faithful are deprived of the saving grace of the mysteries, of which they have so great a need.

On the contrary, while everyone here [in Greece] remains fearfully silent, in the Orthodox Churches of Serbia, Bulgaria, and Georgia divine worship continues unhindered, the churches are open, Divine Liturgy is celebrated, and the faithful are not afraid of being affected by the virus.

The protective measures employed by the present government are unconstitutional, unbearable, extreme, and unfair to the Greek Orthodox, while they have also created an atmosphere of terrorism, which the media aggravate.

Yes, the virus exists and we must protect our health and the health of those around us. Fear, however, must vanish, because when man is in a state of fear he cannot think and act rationally and discreetly.

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:37AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

No the numbers did not go up. They have reduced substantially. Saying otherwise is fake news.

This virus was circulating 3 months ago and that is when most of the damage was done.

Look at Saudi Arabia so and also Brazil. Still rising there and they are only including admittance to the hospital like uk

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:38AM

average_runner wrote: »

Recession will be short lived. Alot of medical companies are booming right now. IT is still going strong.

Things will change but that be for the better. Less pubs for example. Hopefully we continue with new pace of life, seeing families in the park, neighbour's building a community instead of all rushing around

Less pubs will cause a very socially awkward society. Our birth rates will go down significantly.

You dont expect to be having cans in your back garden in January now do you.

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:40AM

average_runner wrote: »

Recession will be short lived. Alot of medical companies are booming right now. IT is still going strong.

Things will change but that be for the better. Less pubs for example. Hopefully we continue with new pace of life, seeing families in the park, neighbour's building a community instead of all rushing around

Yes a slower pace of life is guaranteed as people will not have jobs. Then we will not have the team revenues to pay for the services. So what then will we see:

- reduction in the pension and dole
- increase in taxes
- reduction in allowances such as the fuel allowance
- reduced spending on public services including on health programmes and projects such as on capitals be social housing will be sharply cut back
- local authorities will not have the money to maintain the parks.
- if we are not seen to manage our economy with the slowest exit in the western world then borrowing costs will go up.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:40AM

Moving horse racing re opening forward might cause a chain reaction if Greece is anything to go by.

"GREECE SPEEDS UP REOPENING OF RESTAURANTS, BARS

Greece's government has decided to bring forward the opening of restaurants, bars and cafés by a week to May 25.

The decision came after the government was criticized for bringing the reopening of shopping malls, department stores and discount outlets forward by two weeks."

Lets hope.

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:41AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Listen I dont know why these published scientific studies tells us that Vitamin D helps greatly against Covid and fresh air evaporates covid very fast.

I am not a scientist. Read the article, read the scientific studies.

Jaysus, Brazil is a pretty hot country and they have 0.0007% of population dying off covid.

But have a massive amount of cases. They were saying it was related to the jab a few weeks ago.
Spain has a high death count and they have plenty of vitamin d.

The fact is we don't know yet, it's a 29 protein strain virus so very hard to find its weakness, that's the problem hence hard to get the vaccine.

We will win this, we will open sooner than we think, schools there is no rush, most kids have almost completed their years work anyhow

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:42AM

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

Really? Air quality is a consistent killer. Diabetes causes multiple diseases. Alcohol is the big health timebomb and smoking kills. Over 31500 people died in 2019.

All individually killed how much in Ireland in the last six weeks or any six weeks?

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:42AM

average_runner wrote: »

Look at Saudi Arabia so and also Brazil. Still rising there and they are only including admittance to the hospital like uk

We are talking about this country. If you want to talk about U.K. there is a thread for it and please set up a thread for Saudi or Brazil if you wish.

average_runner · 17-05-2020 09:45AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Less pubs will cause a very socially awkward society. Our birth rates will go down significantly.

You dont expect to be having cans in your back garden in January now do you.

So we need to drink to have kids?
Pubs arent big outside Ireland UK.
Plenty of ways to have a better social outlet.

A social society shouldn't depend on drink. We are changing as a nation, the young 20's seem more fitness base now which is great

MrDavid1976 · 17-05-2020 09:46AM

average_runner wrote: »

All individually killed how much in Ireland in the last six weeks or any six weeks?

Firstly the 1500 is over three months. Where are you getting six weeks from?

Secondly. these factors were significant in the 1500 people who died. Those with underlying health conditions represented the majority of cases. Respiratory illness, high blood pressure, cardiac issues, obesity.

In fact looking back, the failure of the country to lock down sooner cost a large number of lives. How many lives were lost due to the failures in nursing homes?

Now this strategy will cost an inordinate amount of lost jobs.

Ginger n Lemon · 17-05-2020 09:46AM

average_runner wrote: »

But have a massive amount of cases. They were saying it was related to the jab a few weeks ago.
Spain has a high death count and they have plenty of vitamin d.

The fact is we don't know yet, it's a 29 protein strain virus so very hard to find its weakness, that's the problem hence hard to get the vaccine.

We will win this, we will open sooner than we think, schools there is no rush, most kids have almost completed their years work anyhow

You really need to read more and type less. Article clearly said

"Italy and Spain have both experienced high mortality rates, and scientists found both countries have lower than average vitamin D levels.

This is partly because people in southern Europe, particularly the elderly, avoid strong sun, while their darker skin pigmentation also reduces the body's ability to produce natural vitamin D."

The fact is btw, that we know. We know A LOT.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings