Masks

Boggles · 16-05-2020 11:29AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd have a lot more time for those who just came out and honestly said they just don't want to wear a mask because they feel "weird", because that is the guts of it for many if not most.

It's pretty nuts, because of all the hard decisions and adjustments to life we have had to make and will have to make going forward, wearing a face covering is the lowest of hanging fruit.

Boggles · 16-05-2020 11:33AM

McGiver wrote: »

From gov.ie

This is ridiculous cowardice and lack of leadership.
It's like saying "we recommend you to pay taxes but then saying you may chose to pay them".

If the article starts with "recommendation" then it should say "We recommend you to wear a clothes face covering:".

It's beyond loony tunes, only matched by what was a farcical "press conference" "recommending" them.

Honestly if I hadn't did my research on masks and just watched that clusterfook yesterday, I wouldn't wear one.

Also the "journalists" at these things are beyond bad, 89 questions asking for clarification between 'hardware' and 'homeware' :rolleyes: and no relevant ones on masks or why things have now changed.

tromtipp · 16-05-2020 11:44AM

Yes: surgical

riffmongous wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I'm one of a handful of people here properly trained in using PPE, and probably the only one who has actually had to judge others people's PPE in real life

I'm sure that's true, but it's also irrelevant here. Masks aren't being recommended as PPE (though they may give some limited protection to people wearing them) but as a public health measure. A person wearing a mask is much less likely to transmit infection than a person without one.

The advice given to people using masks as protection from eg smoke or toxic fumes really has nothing to do with this situation. This is about not being self-centred, but accepting mild inconvenience in the public interest..

Tipperary animal lover · 16-05-2020 11:50AM

Yes: homemade

Jaysus lads maskeup dont maskup, the constant tit for tat my balls are bigger than yours blah blah blah, i maskup when entering shops/butchers/chemists etc, sanitize my hands before i put on the mask, use the loops to put on mask on, have gotten used to not touching front of mask, come out of shop put shopping into car, sanitize hands, remove mask by the loops, have wipes in car wipe down handles keys wheel ... off i go.
Ive a 87yr old mother and havent seen her in weeks, i want to be able to go see her when travel restrictions are lifted and not bring this sh#t into her house as shes been well looked after by a family member, for all the people who think i look like a tit wearing a mask f##k you with your stares sniggers and non social distancing, its frightening the amount of people who really dont give a dam until it comes knocking on your door. What this virus has shown people are dirty and really self absorbed...... rant over

Kivaro · 16-05-2020 12:22PM

Yes: valved

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

What this virus has shown people are dirty and really self absorbed...... rant over

Your rant is totally understandable.

The lack of clarity from the numnuts in charge actually propagates this discord.
The norm in Irish society while the pandemic is ongoing should be people wearing masks in public spaces, enclosed areas, public transportation, places where social distancing is difficult etc.

The more people that are using face masks (correctly), the more acceptance it will have in the general populace. The government failed miserably in their communication, which is why the vast majority of people will still be restricted to 5 km travel from their homes for the next 2 months.

In Hong Kong, 76% of the population was wearing a face mask during the SARS epidemic. It worked in controlling that virus along with other measures. If we had a similar mask compliance in Ireland, then we might be able to head to the beach in a few weeks time, rather than 2 months.

Seanergy · 16-05-2020 12:28PM

Yes: valved

I know it's only day 1 of new facecovering policy but it's not working and it won't be successful.

What do a post by Simon Harris on twitter, article in Irish Times, GOV.ie and HSE.ie all have in common?

They all fail to mention to wash your hands before taking of your face covering.

One goes even further by advising you to wash your hands and then dispose of your dirty face covering.

This half arsed 11th hour u-turn saveface is adding to the noise and tainting a really practical life saving measure, that will be needed to be adhered to by all in the future.

Gross negligence.

Seanergy · 16-05-2020 12:46PM

Yes: valved

Boggles wrote: »

It's beyond loony tunes, only matched by what was a farcical "press conference" "recommending" them.

Honestly if I hadn't did my research on masks and just watched that clusterfook yesterday, I wouldn't wear one.

Also the "journalists" at these things are beyond bad, 89 questions asking for clarification between 'hardware' and 'homeware' :rolleyes: and no relevant ones on masks or why things have now changed.

+1 100%

I believe the same smoke n mirrors confuse deflect tactic was used by Leo on the Late Late the very first day the mask U-turn was announced, Press and nation focused on his hands and a piece of paper not a glance at the change in poilcy.

Away With The Fairies · 16-05-2020 12:59PM

Yes: valved

Seanergy wrote: »

I know it's only day 1 of new facecovering policy but it's not working and it won't be successful.

What do a post by Simon Harris on twitter, article in Irish Times, GOV.ie and HSE.ie all have in common?

They all fail to mention to wash your hands before taking of your face covering.

One goes even further by advising you to wash your hands and then dispose of your dirty face covering.

This half arsed 11th hour u-turn saveface is adding to the noise and tainting a really practical life saving measure, that will be needed to be adhered to by all in the future.

Gross negligence.

Remove it from behind? As people clearly need guidance similar to the instructions found on Lidl toilet paper... They didn't even mention remove by the ear loops.

Wibbs · 16-05-2020 01:26PM

Yes: other

Seanergy wrote: »

Gross negligence.

Genuinely, what did you expect but the usual from the same barely competent eejits that have bounced from confusion to contrariness over the last three months?

Arrival · 16-05-2020 01:47PM

Kivaro wrote: »

This most definitely will happen.
My own experience shopping during the week; happened to be behind a woman with a mask and industrial scale rubber gloves at the checkout. Prior to that, she would give anyone the 'evil stare' if they ventured 10 feet within her circumference a.k.a. her invisible virus shield.
Now, I totally respected all that, but when she finished packing her weekly shopping, she removed one of her gloves (with great stress), routed through her bag for her card, inserted the card, and keyed in her pin with her ungloved hand, fixing her face mask with the same hand as she was waiting for it to process. And after taking the receipt and coupons with her bare hand, she then put on the massive rubber glove and off she went.

Masks will be a new experience to lots of people, so there will be a learning curve for most.

While I'm on here, this morning I made myself a kick-ass homemade mask with a bandana........... in about 45 seconds. Very happy with this multi-layered and sturdy mask.
Here's the short YouTube video I used:

Just letting you know, a test was done on effectiveness and bandanas and scarves are the least effective at blocking droplets as they're not tightly woven enough. You should use one of the t-shirt tutorials with rubber bands instead and use a thick cotton t-shirt instead, add some kind of filter to make it even better then

Arrival · 16-05-2020 02:02PM

Seanergy wrote: »

I know it's only day 1 of new facecovering policy but it's not working and it won't be successful.

What do a post by Simon Harris on twitter, article in Irish Times, GOV.ie and HSE.ie all have in common?

They all fail to mention to wash your hands before taking of your face covering.

One goes even further by advising you to wash your hands and then dispose of your dirty face covering.

This half arsed 11th hour u-turn saveface is adding to the noise and tainting a really practical life saving measure, that will be needed to be adhered to by all in the future.

Gross negligence.

Just feel like giving up hope altogether now to be honest. We live in an amateur, mediocre country lads. Simple as that. Too many people who just can't think critically and only think of themselves, with no regard at all for their fellow countrymen and the bigger picture overall. The fact that there's a sizeable portion of people singing praises for this government and our Health Services handling of the pandemic says it all; people here just want to stick their heads in the sand and not look at the actual countries who've handled it well in order to recognise how badly we've done.

Only when the virus reaches people's close family or friends it may hit them and make them a bit more conscious, but probably not

Kivaro · 16-05-2020 02:12PM

Yes: valved

Arrival wrote: »

Just letting you know, a test was done on effectiveness and bandanas and scarves are the least effective at blocking droplets as they're not tightly woven enough. You should use one of the t-shirt tutorials with rubber bands instead and use a thick cotton t-shirt instead, add some kind of filter to make it even better then

Thanks for the heads up.
It would definitely be insufficient if I just wrapped the bandana around my head Jesse James style, but doing it like the video actually gives you 6 layers due to all the fold-overs. And it is 100% cotton. Some of the scarves used as masks that I see on television are very flimsy and I wouldn't trust them.
But point taken on the woven aspect.

Seanergy · 16-05-2020 02:30PM

Yes: valved

Wibbs wrote: »

Genuinely, what did you expect but the usual from the same barely competent eejits that have bounced from confusion to contrariness over the last three months?

Genuinely, I thought I had zero expectations, I know realise I was holding onto a small flicker of hope, whoops it's just gone out.

Truth is face coverings should have been introduced months ago as an emergency measure whilst supplies of FFP2 grade masks were distributed to citizen's.

Time to put the face coverings away and pull out the KN95 FFP2 non-valve masks.

Away With The Fairies · 16-05-2020 02:34PM

Yes: valved

Kivaro wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up.
It would definitely be insufficient if I just wrapped the bandana around my head Jesse James style, but doing it like the video actually gives you 6 layers due to all the fold-overs. And it is 100% cotton. Some of the scarves used as masks that I see on television are very flimsy and I wouldn't trust them.
But point taken on the woven aspect.

Hold the bandana up to the light. The first layer, you can see through. Second layer folded over, is slightly better but can still see light through it. Keep folding it over until you can't see light through it. 6 layers is better than 2.

Away With The Fairies · 16-05-2020 02:40PM

Yes: valved

Seanergy wrote: »

Genuinely, I thought I had zero expectations, I know realise I was holding onto a small flicker of hope, whoops it's just gone out.

Truth is face coverings should have been introduced months ago as an emergency measure whilst supplies of FFP2 grade masks were distributed to citizen's.

Time to put the face coverings away and pull out the KN95 FFP2 non-valve masks.

I guess they would have sounded stupid saying masks are no good for the public... So better to introduce them with the re-opening of the country.

leahyl · 16-05-2020 02:48PM

No: other

I bought a mask online a few weeks back and wore it for the first time today going shopping to Dunnes but unfortunately it’s very tight around the ears with the elastic and then started popping off one ear and I didn’t feel like it was very breathable. I took it off when I got back to the car (by the loops!) and went to lidl and didn’t wear it :-( I think it’s a bit too constricted even though it’s well made; I’m fairly anxious at the moment too so my breathing isn’t great

Does anyone have a suggestion for somwhere I could buy a mask which is breathable (soft material) but also secure without being too tight?

Manion · 16-05-2020 03:19PM

Boggles wrote: »

Newflash, they are now "recommending" face coverings.

So are you saying they are now putting the general populous at more risk with their advice?

I cannot speak for the general population but certainty from what I'm seeing people wearing masks without having a clue how to use them appear to exhibiting more risky behaviour which a) totally negates the value of the mask and b) actually puts themselves at greater risk compared to people without masks.

Wibbs wrote: »

So you also saw people failing at social distancing and hand washing protocols, both which have been pushed from the start as a means to reduce the risk of spread and recommendations you likely agree with, yet the masks are the sticking point?

The medical experts rolled out by the HSE have come out with a few howlers, including potentially deadly ones. Have we forgotten the "reopen the care homes" and "asymptomatic spread is of almost no risk" from the same medical experts here?

Drink driving and smoking rates are way down on what they were even a decade ago. Clearly the campaigns didn't work. Apparently they didn't work for hand washing and social distancing either. Oh wait, they mostly did. And again masks are the outlier.

The resistance to mask wearing is little to do with science or even logic, it's almost entirely down to two things: early concerns about PPE for medical staff and a deep cultural resistance to wearing them. Note how many wear gloves and they're "acceptable" to the wider culture because they're less obvious, don't cover our faces and are culturally OK, yet they are far easier to contaminate and nobody I've seen knows how to use them.

I'd have a lot more time for those who just came out and honestly said they just don't want to wear a mask because they feel "weird", because that is the guts of it for many if not most.

You're not wrong and obviously the second best time to start an educational campaign is now. I'm just making the point that when medical experts in Ireland spoke about the likely behaviours of people, it was dismissed out of hand as the HSE and others pushing a secret agenda. People are thick, basically. Making masks mandatory tomorrow isn't going to make people any less thick. I saw very high levels of compliance with social distancing and hand washing by people without masks. I think because the messaging is very simple for these measures.

On the flip side I can understand the anger from people who have educated themselves. It's some what like you're being put at risk because other people are too thick to be helped and need to be protected from themselves.

Seanergy · 16-05-2020 03:40PM

Yes: valved

The Pandemic has taught me that to future proof our safety we need to create a co-op style homegrown source of FFP2 non valve masks that is independent of the State. If we had, we wouldn't have needed to lockdown or be told to make do with facecoverings just to protect frontline supplies. We actualy could have sold to the frontline and beyond.

We can benefit from observing what has happened in France, Germany and beyond.

The real trick is have a large homegrown source of melt blown fibre, that's the main material needed for the production of FFP2 masks.

We would need to create a product that requires having it’s on melt blown fibre, say a hoover bag industry or a coffee filter industry. We would all need to be loyal/supporting/purchasing these hoover bags/coffee filters, so that production scale is running at a level that would result in fast mask production at the flip of a switch for when the time comes.

If we don't start thinking and acting independently and collectively we will be left with rags on our faces six feet under.

jackofalltrades · 16-05-2020 03:48PM

Yes: other

Arrival wrote: »

Just feel like giving up hope altogether now to be honest. We live in an amateur, mediocre country lads. Simple as that.

Living through the shambles that was the boom and bust and how the people and the government behaved made me really question how good this country is.
Now this crisis is the doing the same again. We could implement a simple, cheap measure to get us out of this crisis sooner.
One that would probably save lives and get the country back on track sooner.
Instead we're going to ignore it so as not to upset people who might feel a bit self conscious wearing a mask.
But hey lets just run up billions in debt and lose another decade.

Manion wrote: »

I cannot speak for the general population but certainty from what I'm seeing people wearing masks without having a clue how to use them appear to exhibiting more risky behaviour with a) totally negates the value of the mask and b) actually put themselves at greater risk compared to people without masks.

It's an often repeated claim that imperfect use of masks could lead to a greater risk than wearing no masks at all.
I've never seen it backed up with facts though.
There are a lot of countries mandating mask wearing for the first time.
So if imperfect use made the situation worse surely we'd see the data by now.
But all we seem to see are declining rates of infection.

timsey tiger · 16-05-2020 03:51PM

GT89 wrote: »

I am convinced there are some people usually men wear them purely because they look cool like they're something out of an apocalyptic film rather than actually needing to wear the mask for protection. It's usually men wearing the proper filter mask whilst women just wear the surgical masks.

Prob. because men are more lightly to have them from work and diy etc. Men generally perform the more dangerous jobs in our society.

timsey tiger · 16-05-2020 03:55PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Remove it from behind? As people clearly need guidance similar to the instructions found on Lidl toilet paper... They didn't even mention remove by the ear loops.

Mask might not have ear loops. From behind, works for ear loops too.

timsey tiger · 16-05-2020 03:57PM

leahyl wrote: »

I bought a mask online a few weeks back and wore it for the first time today going shopping to Dunnes but unfortunately it’s very tight around the ears with the elastic and then started popping off one ear and I didn’t feel like it was very breathable. I took it off when I got back to the car (by the loops!) and went to lidl and didn’t wear it :-( I think it’s a bit too constricted even though it’s well made; I’m fairly anxious at the moment too so my breathing isn’t great

Does anyone have a suggestion for somwhere I could buy a mask which is breathable (soft material) but also secure without being too tight?

How big is your head?

Away With The Fairies · 16-05-2020 04:17PM

Yes: valved

timsey tiger wrote: »

Mask might not have ear loops. From behind, works for ear loops too.

It's clear people need clear instructions with masks.

Manion · 16-05-2020 04:21PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

It's an often repeated claim that imperfect use of masks could lead to a greater risk than wearing no masks at all.
I've never seen it backed up with facts though.
There are a lot of countries mandating mask wearing for the first time.
So if imperfect use made the situation worse surely we'd see the data by now.
But all we seem to see are declining rates of infection.

Blind disbelief is just as bad a blind belief. I cannot speak for the population as a whole but I am sharing my experiences having watched people in a queue for an hour yesterday, and actual observations over the last number of weeks. Fair enough if you want to disbelieve this is happening until a suitable number of peer reviewed medical report are published.

You suggest the reason why masks aren't mandatory is "so as not to upset people who might feel a bit self conscious wearing a mask." and cite the lack of quantitative evidence of increased risk as proof there is no increased risk. I offer you the counter point that maybe there is legitimate reason to be concerned? Isn't that the most likely reason?

Tbh I've been taken aback by how ubiquitous the incorrect use of masks is. Every where I go I see people touching them, wearing them around their neck, not covering their noise, not keeping a social distance etc etc. At least some people think basic community masks protect them from infection regardless of what else they are doing.

Never.Give.Up · 16-05-2020 05:02PM

Yes: other

Hi. First thread. Reviewed guidelines. But do let me know if I make an oopsie.

Found a huge mask poll (respect) with debates and politics, but couldn't find a consolidated point for simply sharing places (online and offline) that are selling masks in Ireland, what mask and how much. So I thought I'd start. This thread is not for debates, just discussing and sharing information on acquiring masks, maintaining them and even touching on DIY aspects.

Also worth mentioning, if this thread gains significant traction, I might make a website and fund it for free for a year that shows people where they can buy masks, which mask, and what price. Kind of like what pumps.ie did. I/We can also include credible infographic advice on the handling of masks, which seems to be a big issue from reading the mask poll.

FYI, half of my family are doctors etc in Asia, particularly in the countries that contained the virus very well and where everyone is well informed about, and accustomed to, wearing masks. I can further contribute from that standpoint if needed.

riffmongous · 16-05-2020 05:11PM

tromtipp wrote: »

I'm sure that's true, but it's also irrelevant here. Masks aren't being recommended as PPE (though they may give some limited protection to people wearing them) but as a public health measure. A person wearing a mask is much less likely to transmit infection than a person without one.

The advice given to people using masks as protection from eg smoke or toxic fumes really has nothing to do with this situation. This is about not being self-centred, but accepting mild inconvenience in the public interest..

And the longer and with less thought a person wears one the more likely a person is to still transmit, and the more people and places they are worn the more likely this becomes. That's what the context to what we were discussing

Akrasia · 16-05-2020 05:12PM

Never.Give.Up wrote: »

Hi. First thread. Reviewed guidelines. But do let me know if I make an oopsie.

Found a huge mask poll (respect) with debates and politics, but couldn't find a consolidated point for simply sharing places (online and offline) that are selling masks in Ireland, what mask and how much. So I thought I'd start. This thread is not for debates, just discussing and sharing information on acquiring masks, maintaining them and even touching on DIY aspects.

Also worth mentioning, if this thread gains significant traction, I might make a website and fund it for free for a year that shows people where they can buy masks, which mask, and what price. Kind of like what pumps.ie did. I/We can also include credible infographic advice on the handling of masks, which seems to be a big issue from reading the mask poll.

FYI, half of my family are doctors etc in Asia, particularly in the countries that contained the virus very well and where everyone is well informed about, and accustomed to, wearing masks. I can further contribute from that standpoint if needed.

My local Lidl has boxes of 50 masks for sale but they’re 43 euros a box,

YFlyer · 16-05-2020 05:40PM

leahyl wrote: »

I bought a mask online a few weeks back and wore it for the first time today going shopping to Dunnes but unfortunately it’s very tight around the ears with the elastic and then started popping off one ear and I didn’t feel like it was very breathable. I took it off when I got back to the car (by the loops!) and went to lidl and didn’t wear it :-( I think it’s a bit too constricted even though it’s well made; I’m fairly anxious at the moment too so my breathing isn’t great

Does anyone have a suggestion for somwhere I could buy a mask which is breathable (soft material) but also secure without being too tight?

Can the straps be adjusted?

What type of mask was it?

YFlyer · 16-05-2020 05:44PM

Akrasia wrote: »

My local Lidl has boxes of 50 masks for sale but they’re 43 euros a box,

Can these masks be washed and reused?

Beanybabog · 16-05-2020 05:45PM

No: other

YFlyer wrote: »

Can these masks be washed and reused?

No they’re paper. I got them, there wasn’t many left so I got a box before the announcement. I also got cloth masks, a lot of small shops near me are selling them for a fiver

Masks

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