Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings

JPCN1 · 16-05-2020 02:59PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

My prediction is that with the relative severity of the ongoing lockdown numbers will be approaching virtually zero come June 8th and government will come under increasing pressure to abandon their ultra conservative timeline.

What I'm really struggling with is understanding of our overall strategy at this point.

The Taoiseach spoke of quenching every spark and every ember of this virus where ever we can.
So are we still actually trying to get Pandora back into her box? Eradicate the virus? Weren't and aren't we told all the time that this is actually impossible? That this virus is here to stay like all the other corona viruses?
And even if we were to succeed what then? Are we going to build a wall to the north and encapsulate Ireland from all international travel?

So it couldn't be that, but what is it then?

If we were trying to live with the virus with a sustainable level of hospitalization - then isn't that sustainable level already reached? And any longer dithering on the current lockdown levels aren't really going to improve anything except that hospitals are going to be even emptier than they are right now together with the state coffers?

Can someone explain what I'm missing?

Taoiseach is counting votes in his head and this is leading the decision making process.

is_that_so · 16-05-2020 03:00PM

Colibri wrote: »

Ah jebus

Kermit.de.frog · 16-05-2020 03:01PM

JPCN1 wrote: »

Taoiseach is counting votes in his head and this is leading the decision making process.

Or maybe he is just doing the best he can in a difficult situation?

Not everything is a conspiracy or driven by alterior motives.

Also, the alternatives would be Martin or McDonald...hardly going up a level is it? Quite the opposite in fact.

crossman47 · 16-05-2020 03:01PM

acequion wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's a nonsensical statement! Have we here in Ireland got a different species of "people" to the rest of Europe?? Because that's what you're implying!

.

To some extent we are. We still have a former colonial attitude to laws e.g, pub opening hours are negotiable, I can drive on a learners licence,I can build anywhere I like since I own the land, etc, etc

Stheno · 16-05-2020 03:02PM

Four Cabinet ministers yesterday wanted the 5k limit lifted according to the Indo

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:04PM

Stheno wrote: »

Four Cabinet ministers yesterday wanted the 5k limit lifted according to the Indo

No surprise there but we'll still be told theres no tensions.

crossman47 · 16-05-2020 03:05PM

Stheno wrote: »

Four Cabinet ministers yesterday wanted the 5k limit lifted according to the Indo

And if they could convince their fellow cabinet ministers, it would have happened. I've said already on this thread they are forgetting their role as the ultimate decision makers and making sure Holohan is the fall guy if it goes wrong.

Red Alert · 16-05-2020 03:06PM

Stheno wrote: »

Four Cabinet ministers yesterday wanted the 5k limit lifted according to the Indo

They might have to I think. Restrictions need to reviewed in line with compliance. At this stage people are understandably frustrated, yet have changed many behaviours positively (handwashing, distance).

Colibri · 16-05-2020 03:08PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No surprise there but we'll still be told theres no tensions.

Probably something like:

"I'm not aware of any tensions but just to be clear, we are all working together in the interests of public health to ensure that the numbers are low on a consistent basis as advised by NPHET, by having these restrictions in place"

Stheno · 16-05-2020 03:11PM

Colibri wrote: »

"I'm not aware of any tensions but just to be clear, we are all working together in the interests of public health to ensure that the numbers are low on a consistent basis as advised by NPHET, by having these restrictions in place"

Indo also reporting that Tony H is not getting on particularly well with senior civil servants, an unusually blunt comment here from a government source

Whatever about differences with the HSE, he is treading on toes in Government Buildings. Fraser, the Department of the Taoiseach secretary general, is the most powerful civil servant in the country. When he puts a plan in place it's expected everyone toes the line, so there was some surprise at Holohan's solo run on the celebrated 100,000 tests.

"He doesn't read the tea leaves very well. He could be more diplomatic. He's as wily as f**k. He's not stupid," a Government source said.

CalamariFritti · 16-05-2020 03:12PM

JPCN1 wrote: »

Taoiseach is counting votes in his head and this is leading the decision making process.

I'm under no illusion that there is going to be quite some amount of arse covering in the decision making process.

And probably also some kicking the can syndrome which I see in corporate decision making processes too these days. As in avoid a decision until it can no longer be avoided and then make it unanimous so in case we got it wrong its no one's fault (it was the consensus at the time, what else could we do?).

But do really think they gamble the fate of the country on popularity percentages and party squabbles? I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt and rule that out for now.

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:17PM

Stheno wrote: »

Indo also reporting that Tony H is not getting on particularly well with senior civil servants, an unusually blunt comment here from a government source

Have you a link to that indo report? Cant seem to find it

Stheno · 16-05-2020 03:18PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Have you a link to that indo report? Cant seem to find it

It's the headline article but its behind the paywall

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dissenting-doctors-bedside-manner-with-the-fragile-egos-and-relationships-in-government-is-ruffling-feathers-39209878.html

is_that_so · 16-05-2020 03:19PM

Stheno wrote: »

Indo also reporting that Tony H is not getting on particularly well with senior civil servants, an unusually blunt comment here from a government source

I don't think anyone on the with medical side of things would argue with the 100,000 tests a week, just how they would get there and that people were on the same page. It's good that the HSE have pushed back to define the limits of remits.

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:19PM

Stheno wrote: »

It's the headline article but its behind the paywall

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/dissenting-doctors-bedside-manner-with-the-fragile-egos-and-relationships-in-government-is-ruffling-feathers-39209878.html

That explains it so cheers

Stheno · 16-05-2020 03:21PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think anyone on the with medical side of things would argue with the 100,000 tests a week, just how they got there and that people were on the same page. It's good that the HSE have pushed back to define the limits of remits.

Agreed on the tests, but tbh you cant have someone like the CMO effectively doing a solo run and causing unnecessary tensions at a time like this

the kelt · 16-05-2020 03:24PM

Just watching the bundesliga live and back in action there now.

It’s great to see a level of normality, strange without crowds but actually not as bad as I thought it would be.

One of our resident misery junkies on this thread was not long ago telling people how sport of any level was practically done for 2020 and definitely no chance before August/September.

Great to see countries not being obsessed with the misery, worst case scenario and fear and trying to move on, learning to live with the virus whilst being responsible in how they do it.

It can be done elsewhere, it can be done here.

is_that_so · 16-05-2020 03:25PM

Stheno wrote: »

Agreed on the tests, but tbh you cant have someone like the CMO effectively doing a solo run and causing unnecessary tensions at a time like this

Well, the tensions are from 4 weeks back, even if some of the media and Alan Kelly have only discovered them now. They gave us that mid-May date as a plan in April anyway.

Goldengirl · 16-05-2020 03:32PM

The reason the R numbers and cases are coming down is because the vast majority of Irish people are responsible , and are intelligent to take on board directives from a scientific body like NPHET , and WHO , unlike some posters here who describe them as clowns.
I would rather take direction from people who have looked at the international body of research and come up with a plan , at this time of unprecedented crisis , than from Leo, Micheál or MaryLou.

The new Dáil committee is welcome , if only to ask questions that the public want asked , and for more transparency of decision making hopefully .

Most would like things to move quicker out of lockdown, but given the criticism , rightly so , of our slow start in quarantine and lockdown, it is clear to see that they want to get it right and are moving cautiously.
One positive was that this roadmap is described as not set in stone , so all will depend on how things go with resurgence of the virus once we move out of lockdown.
They have already said that some areas may be moved forward more quickly , depending on the situation at the time .

Don't forget a lot of Europe is a few weeks ahead of us from when the virus hit, and no doubt our careful caretakers are watching what happens in these countries before they take the brakes off here.

I think the school and creche situation should be looked at with a view to opening a few days a week before the holidays though. It is impossible to judge how this will affect the infection rate without trying some opening up, with social distancing of course.
I would be concerned that we would face further resistance from insurers and teachers next August if not addressed now.
It is a mistake that the childcare sector are not being supported to open up. How else can people return to work ?

16-05-2020 03:32PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No surprise there but we'll still be told theres no tensions.

That’s the way a government should work. Debate the points of a policy, but once agreed as a whole, even if there is dissent, present a united front.

16-05-2020 03:34PM

the kelt wrote: »

Just watching the bundesliga live and back in action there now.

It’s great to see a level of normality, strange without crowds but actually not as bad as I thought it would be.

One of our resident misery junkies on this thread was not long ago telling people how sport of any level was practically done for 2020 and definitely no chance before August/September.

Great to see countries not being obsessed with the misery, worst case scenario and fear and trying to move on, learning to live with the virus whilst being responsible in how they do it.

It can be done elsewhere, it can be done here.

What channel shows bundesliga in Ireland?

growleaves · 16-05-2020 03:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What channel shows bundesliga in Ireland?

BT sport

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:37PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-avoid-visiting-friends-homes-de-gascun-says-ahead-of-lockdown-easing-1.4255397?mode=amp

"Prof Gerry Killeen from UCC’s school of biological earth and environmental sciences, who has worked on malaria transmission control and methods to combat the Zika virus, said it was “absolutely” too soon to be lifting restrictions and that they should remain in place until the end of the summer or early autumn."

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

Then you have De Gascun saying you can give someone a beer but dont use any knifes or forks if your meeting people outdoors and no longer than 15 mins. If your giving someone a beer they're going to be there a bit longer than 15 minutes. To me it just doesn't make sense.

“It’s just adding additional risk,” Dr De Gascún told RTÉ’s Saturday with Cormac Ó hEadra programme. “If you’re handing me a beer that’s fine, it can go straight into the bin or you can leave it on the wall… but if you’re giving me utensils or delph from your house, I’m seeding the virus on it.”

People should avoid interactions over 15 minutes and not meet multiple groups of people in one day, he said. He also advised that people restrict their social interactions to a small circle of friends and family in the coming weeks."

Goldengirl · 16-05-2020 03:40PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-avoid-visiting-friends-homes-de-gascun-says-ahead-of-lockdown-easing-1.4255397?mode=amp

"Prof Gerry Killeen from UCC’s school of biological earth and environmental sciences, who has worked on malaria transmission control and methods to combat the Zika virus, said it was “absolutely” too soon to be lifting restrictions and that they should remain in place until the end of the summer or early autumn."

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

Then you have De Gascun saying you can give someone a beer but dont use any knifes or forks if your meeting people outdoors and no longer than 15 mins. If your giving someone a beer they're going to be there a bit longer than 15 minutes. To me it just doesn't make sense.

“It’s just adding additional risk,” Dr De Gascún told RTÉ’s Saturday with Cormac Ó hEadra programme. “If you’re handing me a beer that’s fine, it can go straight into the bin or you can leave it on the wall… but if you’re giving me utensils or delph from your house, I’m seeding the virus on it.”

People should avoid interactions over 15 minutes and not meet multiple groups of people in one day, he said. He also advised that people restrict their social interactions to a small circle of friends and family in the coming weeks."

Doesn't sound like spreading fear but common sense. Bring your own knife and fork if you want.

Stheno · 16-05-2020 03:41PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-avoid-visiting-friends-homes-de-gascun-says-ahead-of-lockdown-easing-1.4255397?mode=amp

"Prof Gerry Killeen from UCC’s school of biological earth and environmental sciences, who has worked on malaria transmission control and methods to combat the Zika virus, said it was “absolutely” too soon to be lifting restrictions and that they should remain in place until the end of the summer or early autumn."

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

Then you have De Gascun saying you can give someone a beer but dont use any knifes or forks if your meeting people outdoors and no longer than 15 mins. If your giving someone a beer they're going to be there a bit longer than 15 minutes. To me it just doesn't make sense.

“It’s just adding additional risk,” Dr De Gascún told RTÉ’s Saturday with Cormac Ó hEadra programme. “If you’re handing me a beer that’s fine, it can go straight into the bin or you can leave it on the wall… but if you’re giving me utensils or delph from your house, I’m seeding the virus on it.”

People should avoid interactions over 15 minutes and not meet multiple groups of people in one day, he said. He also advised that people restrict their social interactions to a small circle of friends and family in the coming weeks."

And yesterday in the press briefing Holohan said it was fine to meet outside in peoples gardens, now De Gascun is saying you should only meet in public places for 15 minutes

is_that_so · 16-05-2020 03:41PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-avoid-visiting-friends-homes-de-gascun-says-ahead-of-lockdown-easing-1.4255397?mode=amp

"Prof Gerry Killeen from UCC’s school of biological earth and environmental sciences, who has worked on malaria transmission control and methods to combat the Zika virus, said it was “absolutely” too soon to be lifting restrictions and that they should remain in place until the end of the summer or early autumn."

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

Then you have De Gascun saying you can give someone a beer but dont use any knifes or forks if your meeting people outdoors and no longer than 15 mins. If your giving someone a beer they're going to be there a bit longer than 15 minutes. To me it just doesn't make sense.

“It’s just adding additional risk,” Dr De Gascún told RTɒs Saturday with Cormac Ó hEadra programme. “If you’re handing me a beer that’s fine, it can go straight into the bin or you can leave it on the wall… but if you’re giving me utensils or delph from your house, I’m seeding the virus on it.”

People should avoid interactions over 15 minutes and not meet multiple groups of people in one day, he said. He also advised that people restrict their social interactions to a small circle of friends and family in the coming weeks."

Is that the academic who was fuming at Gardai without masks earlier in the week? One can really know too much to have a healthy perspective on life!

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:44PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Doesn't sound like spreading fear but common sense. Bring your own knife and fork if you want.

The spreading fear part is the UCC professor.

The De Gascun part just doesn't make sense. If someone has virus on their hands and passes me a beer and I hold that beer then it's the same as handing me a knife with it.

FintanMcluskey · 16-05-2020 03:45PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-avoid-visiting-friends-homes-de-gascun-says-ahead-of-lockdown-easing-1.4255397?mode=amp

"Prof Gerry Killeen from UCC’s school of biological earth and environmental sciences, who has worked on malaria transmission control and methods to combat the Zika virus, said it was “absolutely” too soon to be lifting restrictions and that they should remain in place until the end of the summer or early autumn."

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

Then you have De Gascun saying you can give someone a beer but dont use any knifes or forks if your meeting people outdoors and no longer than 15 mins. If your giving someone a beer they're going to be there a bit longer than 15 minutes. To me it just doesn't make sense.

“It’s just adding additional risk,” Dr De Gascún told RTɒs Saturday with Cormac Ó hEadra programme. “If you’re handing me a beer that’s fine, it can go straight into the bin or you can leave it on the wall… but if you’re giving me utensils or delph from your house, I’m seeding the virus on it.”

People should avoid interactions over 15 minutes and not meet multiple groups of people in one day, he said. He also advised that people restrict their social interactions to a small circle of friends and family in the coming weeks."

My advice to people is to look back at previous outbreaks ie sars, ebola swine flu and look at what guys like those were saying back then. Predicting thousands dead in UK with swine flu if they didnt go on lockdown

Total alarmist bulls##t.

Those guys need to stay relevant, its events like this they salivate towards their whole careers. They are in danger of being irrelevant in a few weeks so the need to make noise.

Is that Gerry lad the man that was on Yates show during the week talking about Covid making yards over the gainline?

stephenjmcd · 16-05-2020 03:46PM

Stheno wrote: »

And yesterday in the press briefing Holohan said it was fine to meet outside in peoples gardens, now De Gascun is saying you should only meet in public places for 15 minutes

What they say seems to change every day. Hand me a beer but dont let me stay more than 15 minutes... ok

Kermit.de.frog · 16-05-2020 03:47PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

You really do have to look no further as to why theres a fear among some people if they're reading quotes like that.

The number of posters in this thread who are going to look very foolish come the Autumn is extraordinary when this takes off again. :eek:

Same posters will claim they never pushed for premature opening of the economy and return to normal in the teeth of expert advice, precedents and warnings.

I suspect many will disappear actually rather than be reminded!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - Read OP for Mod Warnings