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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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  • #3392
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    I'm heartbroken for my son he's 10, has autism and an ID, school is everything to him. Meets his sensory needs, provides him with structure to his day/week. It will be almost 6 months without school by the time September comes around. Its a disgrace and there is no sense why his school and schools like his can't open. 6 kids in a class and 3 adult teachers/assistants, social distancing isnt a problem.
    All his excellent progress throughout the year is gone and he's beginning to regress 😩


  • #3393
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    daithi7 wrote: »
    Thanks for this info Susie,

    This is the elephant in the room if you ask me. Because of the threat of covid 19 Ireland are now effectively ignoring the health needs of the general population & this will cost lives (&quality of lives).

    With so few cases this is obviously dumb.

    P.s. not to mind continuing with thr drastic economy wrecking, job losing, GDP lowering, business banishing, welfare affecting lockdown measures, that Nphet have got so attached to and like mandating for us....

    The HSE letter on Governance was quite telling. Nphet have given themselves powers they do not have. Alan Kelly was right when he highlighted that Tony Holohan undermining the Taoiseach was not good for the body politic. The Taoiseach yesterday was talking about powers for enforced quarantine which he knows are impossible legally especially from EU countries - and indeed worryingly he was still obsessed with the CTA.

    But rather than us just moaning about our issues here we are probably better off writing to our local TDs. The propaganda campaign around project fear has become so great that the politicians yesterday were jubilant - meanwhile Italy is talking about opening up from abroad from 4 June. France will open its restaurants then also.

    The sensible countries know that the worst is over and if there is a second wave in the autumn we just need to be prepared for it and to take the proportionate measures to address it.


  • #3394
    Nickindublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Nickindublin


    rob316 wrote: »
    I'm heartbroken for my son he's 10, has autism and an ID, school is everything to him. Meets his sensory needs, provides him with structure to his day/week. It will be almost 6 months without school by the time September comes around. Its a disgrace and there is no sense why his school and schools like his can't open. 6 kids in a class and 3 adult teachers/assistants, social distancing isnt a problem.
    All his excellent progress throughout the year is gone and he's beginning to regress ��

    Rob that's awful. I feel for you. There are many stories like you. But we are not allowed to say. You cant criticise NPHET Government etc.


  • #3395
    Voltex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,584 ✭✭✭Voltex


    Thank god there's some rational adults getting airtime in the UK.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSNkUBf1g0

    We need to start having these conversations here too!


  • #3396
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    Nickindublin wrote: »
    The goal posts are being changed all the time.

    We need to be moving from lock down faster. Should be out of it fully by June 29. Italy travel restrictions gone on June 3rd. We will still be restricted upto August/Sept.

    It seems this is going to now have to be paid for. Paschal started out we can do this for 18 months etc. Money is no problem etc. Not saying that now. Looks like a 30billion or more hole this year.

    All I am hearing is of business not re opening. Restaurants Pubs Coffee Shops Hairdressers etc.

    Met a friend yesterday who works in finance for a social distance coffee. He frightened me. He said whats coming we have not seen yet and its not good. He can see it in his position. Basically was saying people still have money. But business are running out of it and once the gov cant pay the extra money people will start running out. Said the amount of restructuring of mortgages/loans is massive. People he is talking to in the industry cant believe whats going on re the economy. Its like the government thinks this is going to bounce back. There are some saying we could end up with 800000 on social at end of year and that this will make the last crash a blip.

    This is very important.

    The representative bodies need to start putting the gun to the Govt’s head. Local businesses need to be getting into the heads of TDs. They are in group think and just cannot see what is happening in the real world. The Govt formation talks are a distraction at this stage.


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  • #3397
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    rob316 wrote: »
    I'm heartbroken for my son he's 10, has autism and an ID, school is everything to him. Meets his sensory needs, provides him with structure to his day/week. It will be almost 6 months without school by the time September comes around. Its a disgrace and there is no sense why his school and schools like his can't open. 6 kids in a class and 3 adult teachers/assistants, social distancing isnt a problem.
    All his excellent progress throughout the year is gone and he's beginning to regress ��

    I completely emphasise with your situaion, it is so tough on kids with special needs and their families. However just putting it into the bigger picture. If his school opens because there aren't as many children in the class then what do the children of those SNAs or teachers if their schools/crèches aren't open?

    Also I have worked in a special school and a unit and social distancing is 100% impossible. There are toileting needs, behaviour problems etc.
    Just to add though I would fully support your sons school reopening but along with every other creche/school and not under the ridiculous guise of social distancing.


  • #3398
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Nickindublin wrote: »
    Rob that's awful. I feel for you. There are many stories like you. But we are not allowed to say. You cant criticise NPHET Government etc.

    A few TDs called for it but Tony but them down. We home school best we can, but its hopeless we can't provide what the school does. I'm up at night rattled wondering how we will manage the next 4 months from now. Summers are generally tough but you can go to Spain for a couple weeks and a few weekends away but your confined to your town now with nothing open.


  • #3399
    the kelt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭the kelt


    deisedevil wrote: »
    Your going to die without homewares and the like are you? Do you understand what the word need really means? We need air, we need water, we need food. We don't need Tupperware boxes and pillow covers.

    Sure if we look at what should be opened only on the basis of what we need then we might as well just stay in lock down and not bother opening up.

    We don’t need a return to sports, travel abroad, restaurants etc etc, we don’t actually need a hair cut just a scissors.

    However the point is the government released a road map to opening up business in the country. When businesses asked for clarity on that road map they were again referred to the road map and told to use common sense. So when the nature of your business is there in black and white on the road map common sense tells you...

    So these businesses have spent the last 2 weeks getting ready to open, have spent money getting their business ready to open, have staff lined up to return to work and the knock on effect of all that only to be told 3 days before they’re due to open oops sorry my bad, bit of a typo there, yeah another 3 weeks for ye but thanks for everything your doing!

    But apparently it’s all good because there would be too many people turning up in these places so we will push it back, push it back from the phase with a 5k restriction the the phase with a 20k restriction cos that will mean less people.

    So to you it’s stuff that you don’t really need but to these people it’s their livelihoods and jobs.

    And it will be better again with the vagueness in phase 2 (if we manage to get there) when small retail units can reopen. So once again look at the road map and use common sense, so basically up to you to decide if your business is small or not.


  • #3400
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    I completely emphasise with your situaion, it is so tough on kids with special needs and their families. However just putting it into the bigger picture. If his school opens because there aren't as many children in the class then what do the children of those SNAs or teachers if their schools/crèches aren't open?

    Also I have worked in a special school and a unit and social distancing is 100% impossible. There are toileting needs, behaviour problems etc.
    Just to add though I would fully support your sons school reopening but along with every other creche/school and not under the ridiculous guise of social distancing.

    Of course creche's should be open too. Children of all ages and intellect need social interaction. This is more dangerous than this virus and I stand by it.


  • #3401
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    rob316 wrote: »
    Of course creche's should be open too. Children of all ages and intellect need social interaction. This is more dangerous than this virus and I stand by it.

    You may get a few headcases come in here later telling you that you are a bad parent and putting your child at risk and they will quote Tony. Just remember they are headcases who have been brainwashed by project fear. You know what is best for your child.


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  • #3402
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can’t believe we actually still have people on this thread trying to justify keeping restrictions in place for another 3 months if not more.

    We were told the reinfection rate should be less than one. It’s currently between 0.4 and 0.6. Hospitals are lying empty as we speak!!!

    ICU is below 20% of the capacity we have. Countries all over Europe are getting back to normality.

    There is no vaccine for the foreseeable future. What’s the plan here? Even if we get the numbers down to 0 and ban all air travel, somebody can still come down from the north and spread it.

    We need to learn how to live with the virus, but our leaders are terrified. They heard some rumours that there would be queues at IKEA so they forced all homeware stores to remain closed.

    I’m genuinely concerned about what criteria needs to be met to move into each phase. Even more concerned about how we’re going to pay back the 30 billion


    Great post.

    We’re been led blindly into oblivion by those supposedly in charge here.

    The sniggering and tittering at the announcement yesterday was disgraceful.

    Laughing and telling us it’s not about buying pillows homeware etc whilst completely missing the point.

    They’re right on the point it’s not about pillows mugs etc but they can’t see that the actual point is about opening these stores and many more places to get businesses going again to save the country

    Worryingly there’s been no change or indications of progressing things quicker even though the virus has been pretty much wiped out in the community.

    How long do we keep following Dr Tony and NPHET ?

    We’re in a big hole for the last two months but we’re still digging and digging deeper and deeper all driven by unsubstantiated fear.

    Who’s going to take the shovels from these idiots and tell them to come out of the hole their in and actually have a look and see what’s really happening.

    30 billion hole some figures say we’ve created in 9 weeks and the sad thing is with our 3 month and 5 phase rolling change plan we’re not going to have anything left to fill the hole with.

    Phase 2,3&4 need to be implemented on 8th June as a matter of urgency

    Enough is enough. This has to stop.


  • #3403
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    MrDavid1976 wrote: »
    You may get a few headcases come in here later telling you that you are a bad parent and putting your child at risk and they will quote Tony. Just remember they are headcases who have been brainwashed by project fear. You know what is best for your child.

    Risk of what? He likely won't experience any symptoms if he got it.


  • #3404
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    rob316 wrote: »
    Risk of what? He likely won't experience any symptoms if he got it.

    Agree. And community transmissions are pretty much non existent at this stage so little or no chance of getting it. But the headcases have been brainwashed and really don’t see anything beyond their narrow view.


  • #3405
    bloodless_coup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭bloodless_coup


    2smiggy wrote: »
    Your dead right, open up the curtain shops first. People need their curtains

    With all the curtain twitching going on all over the country I'd say there's plenty worn out and need replacing.


  • #3406
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Another article of pure and utter rubbish from in the Independent, including a threat to reimpose restrictions!! Based on what? A garden centre queue?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-garden-centres-and-hardware-stores-face-shopper-frenzy-as-taoiseach-warns-restrictions-could-be-reversed-39209867.html


  • #3407
    yawhat?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭yawhat?


    Voltex wrote: »
    Thank god there's some rational adults getting airtime in the UK.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSNkUBf1g0

    We need to start having these conversations here too!

    Rational adult? Luke Johnson? Brexiter, project fear, public v private sector nonsense.

    That’s the problem with the BBC these days, inviting non expert, publicity seeking, loud mouths on to panels in the interest of balance. You can’t get an expert who holds a contrarian view, simply because no experts hold that contrarian view. His very appearance then provides him with a level of unearned legitimacy, and the dumbasses lap up his nonsense.

    Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19. The economic damage caused by continuing as normal, or having looser restrictions would be more severe and last longer. There is also historic evidence to support this position.

    The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.


  • #3408
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    If anybody is thinking straight they wont go near a garden centre next week .We badly need bedding compost and plants , they can wait until we can go in peace .Same goes for hardware we are waiting weeks for paint and it can now wait again


  • #3409
    SNNUS
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭SNNUS


    Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19.

    weak minded....


  • #3410
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    Great post.

    We’re been led blindly into oblivion by those supposedly in charge here.

    The sniggering and tittering at the announcement yesterday was disgraceful.

    Laughing and telling us it’s not about buying pillows homeware etc whilst completely missing the point.


    How long do we keep following Dr Tony and NPHET ?


    Phase 2,3&4 need to be implemented on 8th June as a matter of urgency

    Enough is enough. This has to stop.


    I didn't hear the sniggering and tittering as I actually couldn't bring myself to watch the latest press announcement from Leo and Tony. I've also stopped watching the Daily Tony Show at 9pm.
    But the last announcement Leo made a comment about hairdressers not opening up until 20th July..... he was sniggering and tittering then! Saying we all need a haircut but it can wait "snigger snigger". Meanwhile his hair looks blacker than ever and its certainly not March since he had it cut! He didn't for ONE minute think of the hairdressing business! And he hasn't for one minute thought about all those homeware shops and businesses.

    Surely if you keep doors closed on certain businesses it increases pent up demand for whenever they do open? Its not rocket science! People at this stage know how to socially distance and mind themselves and others. Sick of people saying " ah yeah will look at what happened at the beginning, people at the beach, buying ice cream, buying chips , visiting Glendalough.....blah blah blah blah whinge moan"

    THAT was then, THIS is now! We have all learnt a lot from 9 weeks of lockdown!
    Those who want this lockdown are either introverted, anti-social or sheep without a brain of their own. Open your eyes. NOBODY wants to suddenly revert to life like it was before, that may never happen again, but we want to get on with living with Covid, accepting the risk and minimising it ourselves as we continue to live.


  • #3411
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    yawhat? wrote: »
    Rational adult? Luke Johnson? Brexiter, project fear, public v private sector nonsense.

    That’s the problem with the BBC these days, inviting non expert, publicity seeking, loud mouths on to panels in the interest of balance. You can’t get an expert who holds a contrarian view, simply because no experts hold that contrarian view. His very appearance then provides him with a level of unearned legitimacy, and the dumbasses lap up his nonsense.

    Look at China, Italy, New York, Brazil, Russia. You have ample evidence of the impact of Covid 19. The economic damage caused by continuing as normal, or having looser restrictions would be more severe and last longer. There is also historic evidence to support this position.

    The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.

    Tales of woe and doom? Every single day that this continues unnecessarily the damage to the economy and society in the short/medium and long term is increasing. I hope you and your family have a stable job as otherwise you will be facing a massive drop in living standards. Your kids will be looking to emigrate again but thankfully you will be used to zoom.

    One does not need a masters in economics to see this. The perception by investors that Ireland will take months to get out of this has already led to money being pulled and firms failing.


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  • #3412
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Horse racing is due to go ahead on 8th June. Is horse racing as essential as homeware? I wouldn’t have thought so.

    Will the trainers, owners, jockies and officials have to live within 20km of the race course? Or is it deemed essential work?

    I’m not allowed to see my family until 20th July, but horse racing can go ahead?

    Baffling decisions by this government!


  • #3413
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think you’re getting a bit confused. I never once said the overall morality rate of the entire country would increase. I said the recession would kill more people than Covid did. Covid has currently killed just over 1500 in Ireland.

    Also, we don’t have any long term data to suggest Covid is causing excess morality. Less people are dying on the roads and in work accidents right now. You’d have to do a study over a couple of months to see whether those 1500 deaths had much impact at all on the morality rate.

    Just as an aside, I work with figures all day. If my company loses our top 2 customers, there are actually a bunch of metrics and KPIs that would improve as a result. Of course, we’d have lost our 2 highest income streams. I take it you get the point.
    Alright, so what metric do you propse be used instead then to in any way substantiate your theory that a recession would kill more people than covid? Or are we supposed to just take your word for it?

    I dont argue that a recession may have a worse social impact for the average person than COVID has, but youre making a very specific argument apart from that that it will kill more people than covid. Yet there is nothing to back that up, and actually a lot of evidence that the exact opposite is true

    Also I dont think the current 1500 deaths will have much of an impact on annual mortality, it is the virus uncontrolled which would.


  • #3414
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    yawhat? wrote: »
    The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing.

    It would make me so happy if there was some way to ensure the #stayathome hivemind could be made to bear all the future tax increases, service cuts, redundancies and misery that will result from our policies.

    https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1261353327113244675


  • #3415
    daydorunrun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭daydorunrun


    This is turning into a lockdowners v non-lockdowners Battle. There seems no room for the middle ground.
    Lockdown was essential to protect people and the frontline. My issue is the approach to unwinding. It’s too cautious, we have to balance saving the economy now the infection rates are way down. Leo’s talk of extinguishing every ember sounds good but we’ll have to live with the threat of spikes until the entire planet has it under control or a vaccine is available.

    “You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.” Homer.



  • #3416
    yawhat?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭yawhat?


    Nermal wrote: »
    It would make me so happy if there was some way to ensure the #stayathome hivemind could be made to bear all the future tax increases, service cuts, redundancies and misery that will result from our policies.

    https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1261353327113244675

    A Fox sports journalist, woohoo.

    As I said, experts. Pathetic.


  • #3417
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt



    Originally posted by yawhat

    The Irish response has the broad support of the population and will not be changing. To all the lockdown whingers gathering here every day to comfort each other with their tails of woe and doom, it’s time to grow a pair and get on with it. You come across as pathetic and weak minded.[    /QUOTE]




    Most of the sheeple will follow Leo and Dr Tony’s advice indefinitely all the while forgetting what’s going to be landed on them to foot the bill when the time comes.

    Leo ,Simon and The good doctor will be long gone into the sunset before this bill will be repayed and maybe even before it arrives.

    It’s pretty strange to be following blindly advice from these people when all over the world countries are getting back on their feet but we had to change a plan incase too many might turn up at an homestore.

    They’ve done nothing but tried to control and trick people to buy into their opinions by creating a fear in people.

    We need help again in Ireland with this and we need it quickly.

    Same when the banking crisis happened

    We were told we’ve got this in hand nothing to see here but the Troika has to come in and assist our incompetent leaders.

    Your entitled to your opinion as is everyone else but the tides turning I feel and real questions need to be asked about where we’re going quickly.


  • #3418
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Alright, so what metric do you propse be used instead then to in any way substantiate your theory that a recession would kill more people than covid? Or are we supposed to just take your word for it?

    I dont argue that a recession may have a worse social impact for the average person than COVID has, but youre making a very specific argument apart from that that it will kill more people than covid. Yet there is nothing to back that up, and actually a lot of evidence that the exact opposite is true

    Also I dont think the current 1500 deaths will have much of an impact on annual mortality, it is the virus uncontrolled which would.

    Where are the numbers now?

    - how many people now are in ICU?
    - how much capacity is there in ICU including the new capacity?
    - what is the R rate?
    - how many cases are outside of nursing homes, direct provision, health staff and meat plants (the known clusters which can be managed)?
    - what is the R rate outside of these?
    - how many cases have arisen in those workplaces who have been open for the last two months and introduced mitigation measures?
    - what has been the experience in countries such as Denmark who have opened up more than us?

    The curve is flattened, the virus (outside of known risks) is now managed, there is unprecedented capacity now in our health system, and cases are reducing by the day?

    What do you want to see happening before we lift this?

    And please understand the damage that will be done for every single day this shutdown continues.. it is common sense.


  • #3419
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Another article of pure and utter rubbish from in the Independent, including a threat to reimpose restrictions!! Based on what? A garden centre queue?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fears-garden-centres-and-hardware-stores-face-shopper-frenzy-as-taoiseach-warns-restrictions-could-be-reversed-39209867.html

    Fear-mongering again. There will be front page pictures and headline News on Monday about panic buying and never ending queues in garden centres for plants and paint. Well guess what Leo? THIS is what happens when you close a business that most people need. If they were left open all the time and allowed operate like Tesco there would have been no problem. Their floor space is bigger and distance between shelves too.


    The damage was done closing them and yet they expect no pent up demand on Monday? I'd say it will be hectic for 3 days then revert to normal. This also happened in the UK with Homebase and B&Q having gigantic queues, but they didn't REVERSE restrictions because of it, they allowed it to naturally dissipate.

    This government and George Lee has created such an element of FEAR that they will find it hard to reverse. Fear is what will cripple the economy as it tries to recover. Fear of work, fear of public transport, fear of travelling further than their town, fear of picking up Covid from touching a railing, fear of letting schools ever open again, fear of ever having a child's birthday party again, fear, fear, fear.

    There is no positivity or hope, instead there are threats of reversing restrictions if numbers go back up!
    George Lee should be sacked. He positively "gets off" every night on spreading doom and gloom, wagging his finger at us, doom filled voice, big scared eyes. Who the hell does he think he is, telling us restrictions will be reversed if "reports" come back that there are too many people out and numbers rise. Numbers WILL rise, its inevitable. But we need to get back to living.


  • #3420
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    MrDavid1976 wrote: »
    Where are the numbers now?

    - how many people now are in ICU?
    - how much capacity is there in ICU including the new capacity?
    - what is the R rate?
    - how many cases are outside of nursing homes, direct provision, health staff and meat plants (the known clusters which can be managed)?
    - what is the R rate outside of these?
    - how many cases have arisen in those workplaces who have been open for the last two months and introduced mitigation measures?
    - what has been the experience in countries such as Denmark who have opened up more than us?

    The curve is flattened, the virus (outside of known risks) is now managed, there is unprecedented capacity now in our health system, and cases are reducing by the day?

    What do you want to see happening before we lift this?

    And please understand the damage that will be done for every single day this shutdown continues.. it is common sense.

    I think the lockdown should have been lifted two weeks ago mate. I am just looking for the poster to back up his silly scrare mongering argument that our impending ecnomic doom will kill 'far more' people than COVID


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  • #3421
    MrDavid1976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 305 ✭✭MrDavid1976


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I think the lockdown should be lifted mate. I am just looking for the poster to back up his silly scrare mongering argument that our impending ecnomic doom will kill more people than COVID

    Apologies I misread your post.

    He is not necessarily wrong. Between the recession (no money to invest in the health system which will have long term implications) and those people who have been parked by the health system for the last 3 months the risks are pretty high. Also if there is a second wave (which historically has been a separate period), we will not be able to afford to furlough people at 350 a week.


This discussion has been closed.
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