Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

speckle · 15-05-2020 07:30PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

I think the main reason they're opening garden centres is so that the employees (and professional gardeners) can go back to work, rather than for the punters.

'From 18 May 2020 a phased return to work for outdoor workers will begin. This includes construction workers, gardeners and so on.'

They probably need to rescue and repot plants etc.
taoiseach is quoted in this article re hardwares and garden stores saying only for essential reasons trips .

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0514/1138513-coronavirus-restrictions/
"Now is not the time to dickie up the house"
Think he means not just to buy a potted plant for your patio or get a new kitchen etc but say you need to get something electrical for safety reasons etc. Anyhow thats what I take from it.

An Ciarraioch · 15-05-2020 07:34PM

250 cases added to the Dublin total tonight, which is effectively the Mater backlog - 11,308 becomes 11,557:

http://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/a192b58ba6904c1494f651706c223520

BattleCorp · 15-05-2020 07:36PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

250 cases added to the Dublin total tonight, which is effectively the Mater backlog - 11,308 becomes 11,557:

http://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/a192b58ba6904c1494f651706c223520

How did anybody in the HSE not notice that the Matter hadn't reported their figures for nearly two months? Great level of oversight there.

15-05-2020 07:39PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

I don't know why you're bothering to look for loopholes when you've already said you're going to ignore it.

And you haven't said what the new travel limit is for non-essential purposes such as leisure shopping.

But it’s not a loophole. It’s clear and unambiguous. It says travel is permitted the the essential retail types listed. It cannot be clearer.
The original detail in the 5 stage plan did state within 5k for these business types, but sense seems to have prevailed and they removed it

What Username Guidelines · 15-05-2020 07:43PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

So it had nothing to do with the number of cases they don't have ?

:rolleyes:

Also opening borders to any country in the EU without the need for quarantine. Ouch.

BattleCorp · 15-05-2020 07:44PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 5km thing is only for social stuff and exercise.

You can travel much further than 5km if it's for essentials. Many people live much further than 5km from their nearest shop.

Neamhshuntasach · 15-05-2020 07:45PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the 5km thing is only for social stuff and exercise.

You can travel much further than 5km if it's for essentials. Many people live much further than 5km from their nearest shop.

It's how I interpret it anyways.

DevilsHaircut · 15-05-2020 07:45PM

I pity the unfortunate garden centre workers who'll be trying to keep the begonia-starved hordes at bay on Monday.

DevilsHaircut · 15-05-2020 07:46PM

Leisure shopping is not essential.

Beasty · 15-05-2020 07:47PM

Today's update
16 deaths - RIP
129 new cases

Beasty · 15-05-2020 07:49PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

How did anybody in the HSE not notice that the Matter hadn't reported their figures for nearly two months? Great level of oversight there.

It was not all the cases there. It's already been explained in the thread, but it relates to cases involving healthcare workers which are reported separately. The Mater have stated they complied with all reporting requirements

Gregor Samsa · 15-05-2020 07:52PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

'You should still stay at home whenever possible and only travel for essential reasons...

From 18 May 2020 you can also leave your home to avail of the expanded list of essential retail services as set out under the retail, personal services and commercial activities heading below...

People should not travel beyond 5 kilometres from where they live to visit any of the above facilities [cultural and social, golf, tennis].'

Garden centres are essential only for people who garden for a living.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cf9b0d-new-public-health-measures-effective-now-to-prevent-further-spread-o/#retail-personal-and-commercial-activities

You’re 100% wrong. Garden centres have been now included as an essential retail service. Full stop. There’s nothing in the regulations that says that they’re essential only to some people and not others. The government fully expect and intend for the general public to avail of the expanded retail services.

Don’t get too hung up on the term “essential”. It’s merely relative to the restrictions.

15-05-2020 07:53PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Leisure shopping is not essential.

Tell that to my wife who’s roses are covered in green fly:p

But seriously, allotments are being allowed open, people grow their own food for various reasons. Why would you be permitted to employ a gardener who then would go to get the supplies anyway, rather than be allowed do it yourself?

poppers · 15-05-2020 07:55PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

How did anybody in the HSE not notice that the Matter hadn't reported their figures for nearly two months? Great level of oversight there.

Thee are two reports one for patients and one for health care workers as they are dealt with differently. Its the HCW numbers that were not added in.

Away With The Fairies · 15-05-2020 08:05PM

Anything about craft shops being essential, to buy fabric and make face coverings?

15-05-2020 08:06PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Anything about craft shops being essential, to buy fabric and make face coverings?

Old cotton shirts work just fine

Rob A. Bank · 15-05-2020 08:08PM

Temperature screening was introduced by the Irish Prison Service (IPS) at entrances to all prisons at the end of March in a bid to stop the spread of Coronavirus into the prison system.

Can anyone explain to me why Irish citizens living outside of prisons are not entitled the same level of protection, by fever screening at ports and airports ?

If thermal cameras were introduced we could catch active virus spreaders before they caused clusters here.

We would also be supporting Irish jobs in Drogheda, where state of the art thermal cameras are manufactured for Europe.

All the Asian countries who have succeeded in containing the virus do it.

political analyst · 15-05-2020 08:13PM

igCorcaigh wrote: »

No and no.

But HIV is deadlier than the coronavirus. What works against a severe virus will work against a virus that is less likely to be fatal.

coastwatch · 15-05-2020 08:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Old cotton shirts work just fine

Or a sock, no sewing required.

https://mobile.twitter.com/donalscannell/status/1259804672455557120

podgeandrodge · 15-05-2020 08:17PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Travel outside the 5km is only for work, food, medical reasons and other essential travel: not for a garden centre, golf course etc.

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

I think the main reason they're opening garden centres is so that the employees (and professional gardeners) can go back to work, rather than for the punters.

'From 18 May 2020 a phased return to work for outdoor workers will begin. This includes construction workers, gardeners and so on.'

Deleted User wrote: »

Read the details. Does not make any distinction as to who may go to the outlets. And retail is for sale to general public. How may builders do you think shop in woodies?

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You’re 100% wrong. Garden centres have been now included as an essential retail service. Full stop. There’s nothing in the regulations that says that they’re essential only to some people and not others. The government fully expect and intend for the general public to avail of the expanded retail services.

Don’t get too hung up on the term “essential”. It’s merely relative to the restrictions.

My reading of this is that you absolutely can travel to garden centres that are further than 5km. They are, de facto, "essential" now that they have been allowed to open?

What is the prevailing view on this - it seems that it is 50:50 given above posts! I can't even find the answer online from news articles, which reference 5km all over the place, and reference hardwares and garden centres everywhere, but don't tie the 2 together!

Edit - it seems clear:

"From 18 May 2020 you can also leave your home to avail of the expanded list of essential retail services as set out under the retail, personal services and commercial activities heading below."

No reference to within 5km.

political analyst · 15-05-2020 08:18PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JohnRoss43/status/1259087315693121537

And isnt that the whole point? Slowing the virus down enough so Health Systems can catch up and those who need the hospital care have access to it and survive.
And giving us time to learn more about it and treat it more effectively, so when we DO get it, we are given effective remedys?

I think the Dr that advised Sweden mucked up, and is desperately trying to justify bad decisions..

You didn't address the issue of lack of herd immunity due to the lockdown preventing the infection of most people.

New Home · 15-05-2020 08:20PM

political analyst wrote: »

But HIV is deadlier than the coronavirus. What works against a severe virus will work against a virus that is less likely to be fatal.

But you don't use insecticide to kill weeds. Not all viruses are the same, just like not all antibiotics will work on every bacterium.

Gregor Samsa · 15-05-2020 08:20PM

political analyst wrote: »

But HIV is deadlier than the coronavirus. What works against a severe virus will work against a virus that is less likely to be fatal.

But HIV antivirals don’t work against the virus that causes Covid 19. They’re two complete different viruses.

15-05-2020 08:21PM

political analyst wrote: »

But HIV is deadlier than the coronavirus. What works against a severe virus will work against a virus that is less likely to be fatal.

That's like saying a car crash is more deadly than coronavirus so an airbag to the face will work to save you from it...

speckle · 15-05-2020 08:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tell that to my wife who’s roses are covered in green fly:p

But seriously, allotments are being allowed open, people grow their own food for various reasons. Why would you be permitted to employ a gardener who then would go to get the supplies anyway, rather than be allowed do it yourself?

If you grow your own food isn't it like a food shop? Agriculture/food production is an essential service I would include seed saving.

Again some people will be judical in their use of going to an allotment or garden center for essential tools/supplys.
Then you will get the odd ones who think its grand to invite their friends over to their plots shed, with no social distancing.
After going to the garden center for tropical plants and seeds that will be wasted by incorrect usage or non esential items like fairy solar lights and gnomes!

Gregor Samsa · 15-05-2020 08:26PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Edit - it seems clear:

"From 18 May 2020 you can also leave your home to avail of the expanded list of essential retail services as set out under the retail, personal services and commercial activities heading below."

No reference to within 5km.

Exactly. Is is clear, and always has been. I don’t know why people have been overcomplicating it. Maybe it’s the word “essential” - some people seem to assume that it denotes life or death requirements. Which isn’t the case at all.

wakka12 · 15-05-2020 08:29PM

political analyst wrote: »

But HIV is deadlier than the coronavirus. What works against a severe virus will work against a virus that is less likely to be fatal.

Wow..

Gregor Samsa · 15-05-2020 08:32PM

political analyst wrote: »

You didn't address the issue of lack of herd immunity due to the lockdown preventing the infection of most people.

Even without the lockdown, it would take years to get to the point of “herd immunity” (70% to 90% of the population infected). And then there’s the problem that the immunity itself - assuming there is some - will probably not in itself last years. Which would mean that even the people who caught it first time would be susceptible to it again before you reach the 70%. So you’d be spending years with an overloaded health system chasing something that may not ever materialise.

What we’re doing now is buying time to create a vaccine or medical treatments for the virus. It’s not an attempt to stop the virus, just slow it down to a manageable level while we develop the medication. Which also isn’t guaranteed, but stands a better chance of working with, with lower casualties, than letting it run rampant and hoping for natural immunity to develop.

political analyst · 15-05-2020 08:34PM

New Home wrote: »

But you don't use insecticide to kill weeds. Not all viruses are the same, just like not all antibiotics will work on every bacterium.

But it would (to go with that analogy) work against weeds, wouldn't it?!

political analyst · 15-05-2020 08:35PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Even without the lockdown, it would take years to get to the point of “herd immunity” (70% to 90% of the population infected). And then there’s the problem that the immunity itself - assuming there is some - will probably not in itself last years. Which would mean that even the people who caught it first time would be susceptible to it again before you reach the 70%. So you’d be spending years with an overloaded health system chasing something that may not ever materialise.

Fair point.

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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