GAA Infastructure

salmocab · 14-05-2020 11:35AM

threeball wrote: »

It wouldn't be the county stadium. That county would play in their own 10k stadia. These would be specifically be for IC games within that province and cross province in the all Ireland series. Munster now has 4 white elephants with only one to a really decent standard in PUC. Thurles is a great pitch but a poor ground, Limerick is a ghost stadia unless its packed, Killarney is irrelevant except once every two years. Absolutely stupid and wasteful to spend money on below average monoliths that are only used properly once or twice a year. Its like buying an Hummer to drive to the shops at the top of the road.

Not using such a stadium for the county would surely make it a white elephant anyway. Assets need to be sweated not underused.

threeball · 14-05-2020 01:20PM

salmocab wrote: »

Not using such a stadium for the county would surely make it a white elephant anyway. Assets need to be sweated not underused.

It would end up with 6 or 7 times more games coming close to capacity than the current situation. It would also mean games that are dead in croke park with 30k could be electric in one of these. We could carry 4 decent stadia rather than 30 oversized and below standard stadia. It would be nice to be able to go see a league game in february in middling comfort. Go get a tea, or hot food before or at half time, sit out of the rain and wind, with a good atmosphere, without a big pillar blocking the view and watch players play to a high standard on a quality pitch, avoiding the likes of what we saw in the Tyrone Kerry game this year.

salmocab · 14-05-2020 01:28PM

threeball wrote: »

It would end up with 6 or 7 times more games coming close to capacity than the current situation. It would also mean games that are dead in croke park with 30k could be electric in one of these. We could carry 4 decent stadia rather than 30 oversized and below standard stadia. It would be nice to be able to go see a league game in february in middling comfort. Go get a tea, or hot food before or at half time, sit out of the rain and wind, with a good atmosphere, without a big pillar blocking the view and watch players play to a high standard on a quality pitch, avoiding the likes of what we saw in the Tyrone Kerry game this year.

You said the counties could have their 10,000 capacity stadiums so presumably they are playing their league matches there so how many games do you envisage a year in these regional ones? I think building more stadiums that aren’t for a specific team is pretty much a white elephant.

Coillte_Bhoy · 14-05-2020 03:27PM

cson wrote: »

Something like the RheinEnergie Stadium in Koln with mixed standing/seating should be the blueprint (sized appropriately - 50k is way to big for everyone except Dublin).

I think the GAA/IRFU/FAI will have to get on board with multi use developments if they want viable higher capacity stadia. I concede that the different dimensions per game would take away from the atmosphere somewhat though.

My own province Connacht; the lack of a unified approach to stadia has resulted in McHale Park (25k, €16m in 2008), Hyde Park(25k, can't source what the new stand there cost) and Pearse Stadium (26k, €12m in 2003). They're all middling stadia with crumbling terraces, 1 good seated stand and horrendous facilities for players and spectators - access to MacHale and Pearse is consistently a joke.

What if the Connacht Council/County Boards had poured that money into 1 stadium for the province? You'd have a fantastic venue that you could rent to Connacht Rugby, probably make a few quid from concerts and distribute equally to the counties.

Anyway I'm sure there's plenty of holes to be poked in that re county board funding etc etc but I believe the parochial nature of the country in general leads to these white elephants that get filled 2 or 3 times a year if we're lucky.

I dotn know where you pulled your capacity figures from, Mc Hale Park and the hdye both 25K and i really cat understand how you can compare MacHale and Pearse in terms of access, Castlebar pisses all over Salthill in that regard and the terracing there isnt 'crumbling' and is sued as seating anyway, not your conventional terracing

threeball · 14-05-2020 04:18PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dotn know where you pulled your capacity figures from, Mc Hale Park and the hdye both 25K and i really cat understand how you can compare MacHale and Pearse in terms of access, Castlebar pisses all over Salthill in that regard and the terracing there isnt 'crumbling' and is sued as seating anyway, not your conventional terracing

Either way Castlebar is an expensive dump. Bar the very expensive new stand its a horrible place to watch a match. Who wants to sit on concrete plinths in the depths of winter. No facilities worth talking about bar a jacks which even at a not very busy game is a nightmare to get in and out off. And like Pearse and Thurles and Clones and Kingspan etc. its more than half empty 95% of the time with a poor atmosphere in general. Pitch is cat too.

WesternZulu · 14-05-2020 05:19PM

threeball wrote: »

Either way Castlebar is an expensive dump. Bar the very expensive new stand its a horrible place to watch a match. Who wants to sit on concrete plinths in the depths of winter. No facilities worth talking about bar a jacks which even at a not very busy game is a nightmare to get in and out off. And like Pearse and Thurles and Clones and Kingspan etc. its more than half empty 95% of the time with a poor atmosphere in general. Pitch is cat too.

The stand is a bit of a joke as well. A modern stand with pillars obstructing views isn't good enough. It's like the Mayo County Board wanted to build the biggest stand outside of Croker at the time but to do it as cheaply as possible. The blue seats are another cost cutting exercise no doubt. If they built a more modest stand but of better quality they'd have been way better off.

Kilkenny have it spot on in terms of stadium development. Small but covered all sides. Going to MacHale park for a league game and sitting on the cold concrete uncovered seats isn't fun.

Ray Donovan · 14-05-2020 08:14PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

The stand is a bit of a joke as well. A modern stand with pillars obstructing views isn't good enough. It's like the Mayo County Board wanted to build the biggest stand outside of Croker at the time but to do it as cheaply as possible. The blue seats are another cost cutting exercise no doubt. If they built a more modest stand but of better quality they'd have been way better off.

Kilkenny have it spot on in terms of stadium development. Small but covered all sides. Going to MacHale park for a league game and sitting on the cold concrete uncovered seats isn't fun.

Ya to be fair Kilkenny got it pretty much spot on, the only issue being they didn't run the new roof the full length of the pitch when they had the chance.

cson · 14-05-2020 10:03PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dotn know where you pulled your capacity figures from, Mc Hale Park and the hdye both 25K and i really cat understand how you can compare MacHale and Pearse in terms of access, Castlebar pisses all over Salthill in that regard and the terracing there isnt 'crumbling' and is sued as seating anyway, not your conventional terracing

Capacities taken from Wikipedia - think they're based on Fire Officer/Garda restrictions. I know Pearse Stadium was 34k when it opened (and a capacity crowd, which I had the displeasure of being a part of for the International Rules in 2007, was downright dangerous).

Point taken on MacHale being a relatively new redevelopment hence my comment on terracing is more directed at Hyde Park & to a lesser extent Pearse Stadium.

WesternZulu wrote: »

The stand is a bit of a joke as well. A modern stand with pillars obstructing views isn't good enough.

How it wasn't cantilevered in this day and age is so short sighted.

15-05-2020 07:09AM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Ya to be fair Kilkenny got it pretty much spot on, the only issue being they didn't run the new roof the full length of the pitch when they had the chance.

They could not get planning permission to run the whole length of the field , the residents at that side objected saying the stand would shade there houses.

randd1 · 15-05-2020 11:43AM

Fred Daly wrote: »

They could not get planning permission to run the whole length of the field , the residents at that side objected saying the stand would shade there houses.

The mad thing is it doesn't shade their houses at all, except at sunset.

They might have to re-do it eventually, the outside wall and that side of the road beside the footpath is really starting to lean out at a fair angle in some parts.

Besides, the stadium was there before the houses and is used all year round, I don't see why a new fully covered stand can't be implemented there, especially seeing as the bit of stand that's there now is lower than the previous one.

threeball · 15-05-2020 07:48PM

randd1 wrote: »

The mad thing is it doesn't shade their houses at all, except at sunset.

They might have to re-do it eventually, the outside wall and that side of the road beside the footpath is really starting to lean out at a fair angle in some parts.

Besides, the stadium was there before the houses and is used all year round, I don't see why a new fully covered stand can't be implemented there, especially seeing as the bit of stand that's there now is lower than the previous one.

My only issue with Nowlan park is its a bit disjointed, half a stand on one side another half a stand behind one goal and nothing matches the other but in terms of size and the atmosphere it generates its one of the best grounds in the country. If the most successful hurling team of all time can manage with ease with a ground that size you really have to wonder where some counties that wouldn't win a raffle think its a great idea to build a stadium double that size and multiple times the cost.

16-05-2020 08:29PM

randd1 wrote: »

The mad thing is it doesn't shade their houses at all, except at sunset.

They might have to re-do it eventually, the outside wall and that side of the road beside the footpath is really starting to lean out at a fair angle in some parts.

Besides, the stadium was there before the houses and is used all year round, I don't see why a new fully covered stand can't be implemented there, especially seeing as the bit of stand that's there now is lower than the previous one.

I am sure if there is a problem with the wall the local TD would be on to Kilkenny Co Board.

BloodyBill · 16-05-2020 09:59PM

threeball wrote: »

It wouldn't be the county stadium. That county would play in their own 10k stadia. These would be specifically be for IC games within that province and cross province in the all Ireland series. Munster now has 4 white elephants with only oneto a really decent standard in PUC. Thurles is a great pitch but a poor ground, Limerick is a ghost stadia unless its packed, Killarney is irrelevant except once every two years. Absolutely stupid and wasteful to spend money on below average monoliths that are only used properly once or twice a year. Its like buying an Hummer to drive to the shops at the top of the road.

I think you dont get the dynamics of Munsterat all. Firstly 10,000 might go to a challenge match but are you seriously saying counties with 150,000 + and Cork with 560,000 would be ok with a 10,000 seater stadium. It's not on. Limerick is a good stadium its held All Ireland semi finals. Thurles the same. Cork is obviously excellent. To compare them to the likes of Clones and Pearse stadium isnt comparing like with like. 2 it 3 matches a year is plenty to sustain them. They arent White hart lane or Wembley with all the technical infrastructure those stadiums have. They suit just fine.

threeball · 16-05-2020 11:56PM

BloodyBill wrote: »

I think you dont get the dynamics of Munsterat all. Firstly 10,000 might go to a challenge match but are you seriously saying counties with 150,000 + and Cork with 560,000 would be ok with a 10,000 seater stadium. It's not on. Limerick is a good stadium its held All Ireland semi finals. Thurles the same. Cork is obviously excellent. To compare them to the likes of Clones and Pearse stadium isnt comparing like with like. 2 it 3 matches a year is plenty to sustain them. They arent White hart lane or Wembley with all the technical infrastructure those stadiums have. They suit just fine.

They dont suit fine at all. League games are lost in them. All but the biggest intercounty games too. Limerick is full once every 3 years. The quality of atmosphere and experience outside this is crap. Doesn't matter what your population is its people through the gate that counts. The pitch in limerick is brutal when wet too. Just look at the limerick galway game this year. It was a mudbath after heavy overnight rain.

North Cork Star · 17-05-2020 03:40PM

threeball wrote: »

They dont suit fine at all. League games are lost in them. All but the biggest intercounty games too. Limerick is full once every 3 years. The quality of atmosphere and experience outside this is crap. Doesn't matter what your population is its people through the gate that counts. The pitch in limerick is brutal when wet too. Just look at the limerick galway game this year. It was a mudbath after heavy overnight rain.

What do you want us to do? Knock Gaelic Grounds and Thurles and make them 10k capacity to suit the league games and maybe keep the newly refurbished Pairc Ui Chaoimh as the designated Munster Championship venue?

You said Gaelic Grounds is only full once every 3 years. Well in 2019 alone, the Gaelic Grounds had crowds of 31,234 for the Cork v Limerick game, they had 29,611 at the Limerick v Clare game, they had 44,052 at the Limerick v Tipp game in the Munster Final. There was over 20,000 people at the Cork v Tipp All Ireland Under 20 Final there last year too.

As Bloody Bill has said already, it is a good arrangement where Munster Championship games are evenly spread between Cork, Thurles and Limerick and it's good for the economy in those three places too.

CK22 · 17-05-2020 05:14PM

Watching the Bundesliga this weekend where they have terraces, which is great to see in top level club soccer. Bayern playing Union Berlin in a stadium with one stand and 3 terraces like most GAA stadiums. However this stadium is fully roofed, has a great pitch and I asume had excellent facilities (like toilets). Capacity of 22,000 and only cost €15 million. We got PUC with two covered stands and a pitch that had already needed to be redone for nearly €100 million. Why can’t counties just do a solid job and cover the terraces for low prices. I love Semple but it’s crumbling. Fitzgerald stadium, Gaelic Grounds, Pearse Stadium and most others would be so much better with a roof. Like I don’t know do county boards think we live in Spain.

This is the Union Berlin stadium which should be a model for most GAA stadiums

BloodyBill · 17-05-2020 06:06PM

CK22 wrote: »

Watching the Bundesliga this weekend where they have terraces, which is great to see in top level club soccer. Bayern playing Union Berlin in a stadium with one stand and 3 terraces like most GAA stadiums. However this stadium is fully roofed, has a great pitch and I asume had excellent facilities (like toilets). Capacity of 22,000 and only cost €15 million. We got PUC with two covered stands and a pitch that had already needed to be redone for nearly €100 million. Why can’t counties just do a solid job and cover the terraces for low prices. I love Semple but it’s crumbling. Fitzgerald stadium, Gaelic Grounds, Pearse Stadium and most others would be so much better with a roof. Like I don’t know do county boards think we live in Spain.

This is the Union Berlin stadium which should be a model for most GAA stadiums

They dont need to roof the terraces. Hurling is a summer sport. Complete waste of money. They do need to up their game with facilities for grub and drink. The ablutions are always the Achilles heel in GAA grounds. Ennis immediately brings nightmares.

kksaints · 17-05-2020 06:18PM

BloodyBill wrote: »

They dont need to roof the terraces. Hurling is a summer sport. Complete waste of money. They do need to up their game with facilities for grub and drink. The ablutions are always the Achilles heel in GAA grounds. Ennis immediately brings nightmares.

Roofs generally produce a better atmosphere as they tend to trap the noise inside the ground rather than letting it escape.

https://www.insidescience.org/news/stadium-acoustics-pump-volume

Also in Ireland you're probably better having a roof in the Summer because you can get some terribly wet and windy days and as an alternative to this they can also provide some shade from extreme heat in the unlikely chance that we get a heatwave.

CrabRevolution · 17-05-2020 08:27PM

CK22 wrote: »

Watching the Bundesliga this weekend where they have terraces, which is great to see in top level club soccer. Bayern playing Union Berlin in a stadium with one stand and 3 terraces like most GAA stadiums. However this stadium is fully roofed, has a great pitch and I asume had excellent facilities (like toilets). Capacity of 22,000 and only cost €15 million. We got PUC with two covered stands and a pitch that had already needed to be redone for nearly €100 million. Why can’t counties just do a solid job and cover the terraces for low prices. I love Semple but it’s crumbling. Fitzgerald stadium, Gaelic Grounds, Pearse Stadium and most others would be so much better with a roof. Like I don’t know do county boards think we live in Spain.

This is the Union Berlin stadium which should be a model for most GAA stadiums

The Union Berlin stadium looks good alright, but like many of these soccer to GAA stadium comparisons, the devil is in the detail. The single stand was what cost €15 Million. The total redevelopment was over €20 Million. Add in inflation and the increased cost of surrounding a GAA field compared to a soccer one and it'd be unaffordable for most counties.

The cost of PuC was still a disgrace though, I'll give you that.

Pete_Cavan · 17-05-2020 10:05PM

This thing of every county should have something like X stadium should be and then a big provisional ground completely ignores the existing situation. It's the "well I wouldn't start from here" type answer. The reality is stadiums exist as they are and ripping them down and rebuilding to some template will cost more than adapting and upgrading over time. If starting from scratch these template ideas would be great but we have existing stadia and many with existing debt, neither are just going to disappear.

I mean that the GG, yes it is probably over-sized but what is to be gained from demolishing to reduce capacity? It would be cheaper and better value for money to just replace the main stand and have a stadium which can host big games. Most stadia hold around 20k or less and there is nothing to be gained by knocking serviceable stands to rebuild at reduced capacity.

In many cases there is only really one stand that needs full replacement, generally the main stand. A roofed seated stand, plenty of well maintained toilets, accessible shops and good facilities for players are required here. In some cases this can be achieved by upgrading the existing stand, Clare had a plan to give the main stand at CP a fairly major overhaul, don't know if it went ahead. In some cases, like Newbridge, you have to start again.

Terraces most places are generally fine and if not, most can be brought up to a reasonable standard relatively cheaply. Roofs over terraces are a nicetto have but not necessary, people know what the weather will be like before leaving home and dress accordingly. Umbrellas can also be used, particularly if the terrace isn't full. I don't think roof makes much differencey in terms of atmosphere, unless the space is fully enclosed, the sound disperses in all directions anyway.

Ray Donovan · 17-05-2020 11:13PM

BloodyBill wrote: »

They dont need to roof the terraces. Hurling is a summer sport. Complete waste of money. They do need to up their game with facilities for grub and drink. The ablutions are always the Achilles heel in GAA grounds. Ennis immediately brings nightmares.

Cusack Park in Ennis is a sh*thole. End of.

The Lost Sheep · 17-05-2020 11:25PM

BloodyBill wrote: »

They dont need to roof the terraces. Hurling is a summer sport. Complete waste of money. They do need to up their game with facilities for grub and drink. The ablutions are always the Achilles heel in GAA grounds. Ennis immediately brings nightmares.

and Irish summers are often full of crap weather and just makes sense to have covered seating/standing areas where at all possible

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This thing of every county should have something like X stadium should be and then a big provisional ground completely ignores the existing situation. It's the "well I wouldn't start from here" type answer. The reality is stadiums exist as they are and ripping them down and rebuilding to some template will cost more than adapting and upgrading over time. If starting from scratch these template ideas would be great but we have existing stadia and many with existing debt, neither are just going to disappear.

I mean that the GG, yes it is probably over-sized but what is to be gained from demolishing to reduce capacity? It would be cheaper and better value for money to just replace the main stand and have a stadium which can host big games. Most stadia hold around 20k or less and there is nothing to be gained by knocking serviceable stands to rebuild at reduced capacity.

In many cases there is only really one stand that needs full replacement, generally the main stand. A roofed seated stand, plenty of well maintained toilets, accessible shops and good facilities for players are required here. In some cases this can be achieved by upgrading the existing stand, Clare had a plan to give the main stand at CP a fairly major overhaul, don't know if it went ahead. In some cases, like Newbridge, you have to start again.

Terraces most places are generally fine and if not, most can be brought up to a reasonable standard relatively cheaply. Roofs over terraces are a nicetto have but not necessary, people know what the weather will be like before leaving home and dress accordingly. Umbrellas can also be used, particularly if the terrace isn't full. I don't think roof makes much differencey in terms of atmosphere, unless the space is fully enclosed, the sound disperses in all directions anyway.

saying people know what weather is like isnt good enough to not do up stadiums. A covered area can very much help with atmosphere as sound travels so differently compared to totally open spaces
Nobody is saying every stadium should be a mini croke park or Aviva stadium in terms of facilities but so many need decent work to basic facilities every stadium catering to thousands of people.

yabadabado · 17-05-2020 11:50PM

cson wrote: »

What if the Connacht Council/County Boards had poured that money into 1 stadium for the province? You'd have a fantastic venue that you could rent to Connacht Rugby, probably make a few quid from concerts and distribute equally to the counties.

Anyway I'm sure there's plenty of holes to be poked in that re county board funding etc etc but I believe the parochial nature of the country in general leads to these white elephants that get filled 2 or 3 times a year if we're lucky.

That was the plan in Connacht in the early 90s.One ground to be picked and developed as the Provincial ground.

Hyde Park was chosen after a vote but it was never fully followed through.The terracing was done around 92/93 but they never did the stand side until they threw up that half-assed job around 2000.
The original plan was a really good set up but I don't think the funding or appetite from Connacht Council was there to see it through.

Pete_Cavan · 18-05-2020 07:11AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

saying people know what weather is like isnt good enough to not do up stadiums. A covered area can very much help with atmosphere as sound travels so differently compared to totally open spaces
Nobody is saying every stadium should be a mini croke park or Aviva stadium in terms of facilities but so many need decent work to basic facilities every stadium catering to thousands of people.

I didn't say anything about not doing up stadiums. I was talking about a reason approach and working with what is there to bring up to a reasonable standard. It's the idea that we can create x professional team stadium everywhere which is effectively not doing up stadiums because the cost involved won't see it happen.

Yes basic facilities need to be provided but I don't think basic includes a roof. I was talking about putting money into the actual basic facilities, toilets, shops, player facilities, etc. In most cases, upgrading these can be done at relatively low cost yet they would significantly improve a match day experience.

Roofs are expensive and such costs are hard to justify, particularly for a terrace if the main stand already has a roof. You can't necessarily put one on an existing structure easily given the amount of additional foundations and structure which would be needed to support the roof. In the majority of cases, the additional cost of adding a roof or rebuilding to have a roof will be greater than the benefits of having the roof. Roofs don't always keep the whole stand dry anyway and the atmosphere thing is clutching at straws. Some of the best atmospheres are on an open terrace on a nice day, doesn't have to be particularly warm, just bright and airy generally puts people in a good mood and adds to enjoyment.

18-05-2020 07:51AM

yabadabado wrote: »

That was the plan in Connacht in the early 90s.One ground to be picked and developed as the Provincial ground.

Hyde Park was chosen after a vote but it was never fully followed through.The terracing was done around 92/93 but they never did the stand side until they threw up that half-assed job around 2000.
The original plan was a really good set up but I don't think the funding or appetite from Connacht Council was there to see it through.

Late 90's and early 00's a lot of ****e was built. The stand in Walsh Park Waterford being one. This seemed to be the norm for building stands back in the day. While back then this was a huge improvement for Walsh Park from the days of the thin roof shed.

Not being steep, wooden seats, a roof that only covers about 7 rows of seating it has definitely past its sell by date.

Thankfully there is a plan in place to redevelop Walsh park to a 16k stadium, at the time people in Waterford were furious wanting a greenfield site and developing a stadium 30k+

Last year we held our first munster championship games foe the first time since 1995 at a reduced capacity of 11k and yet tickets were still available up to throw in.

Counties should be developing realistic projects.

The only disappointments I have with the development is behind the city goal there will be no terracing as new dressing rooms will be built, I don't like the idea of a 3/4 stadium and the stand is being redeveloped would prefer to see it knocked at rebuilt like the imagine bekow but won't complain due to the current of walsh park.

Speaking of stands the regional sporte centre built a new stand in the early 00's and this design in GAA stadiums would be perfect in either seating or terracing

Coillte_Bhoy · 18-05-2020 04:02PM

yabadabado wrote: »

That was the plan in Connacht in the early 90s.One ground to be picked and developed as the Provincial ground.

Hyde Park was chosen after a vote but it was never fully followed through.The terracing was done around 92/93 but they never did the stand side until they threw up that half-assed job around 2000.
The original plan was a really good set up but I don't think the funding or appetite from Connacht Council was there to see it through.

Mayo and Galway voted against iirc and then went and developed their own grounds anyway.

yabadabado · 18-05-2020 04:58PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Mayo and Galway voted against iirc and then went and developed their own grounds anyway.

They did and them developing their own grounds was always likely to happen with the finals done on a rota basis.

threeball · 18-05-2020 05:36PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This thing of every county should have something like X stadium should be and then a big provisional ground completely ignores the existing situation. It's the "well I wouldn't start from here" type answer. The reality is stadiums exist as they are and ripping them down and rebuilding to some template will cost more than adapting and upgrading over time. If starting from scratch these template ideas would be great but we have existing stadia and many with existing debt, neither are just going to disappear.

I mean that the GG, yes it is probably over-sized but what is to be gained from demolishing to reduce capacity? It would be cheaper and better value for money to just replace the main stand and have a stadium which can host big games. Most stadia hold around 20k or less and there is nothing to be gained by knocking serviceable stands to rebuild at reduced capacity.

In many cases there is only really one stand that needs full replacement, generally the main stand. A roofed seated stand, plenty of well maintained toilets, accessible shops and good facilities for players are required here. In some cases this can be achieved by upgrading the existing stand, Clare had a plan to give the main stand at CP a fairly major overhaul, don't know if it went ahead. In some cases, like Newbridge, you have to start again.

Terraces most places are generally fine and if not, most can be brought up to a reasonable standard relatively cheaply. Roofs over terraces are a nicetto have but not necessary, people know what the weather will be like before leaving home and dress accordingly. Umbrellas can also be used, particularly if the terrace isn't full. I don't think roof makes much differencey in terms of atmosphere, unless the space is fully enclosed, the sound disperses in all directions anyway.

I'm not on about tearing down stadiums but there are many in the pipeline to be redeveloped, most with completely illogical and completely useless plans. Can anyone justify Mayo spending 18million on the stand with built when they could have had two smaller stands on both sides with no obstruction for the same money. Theres plans to build a 30k stadium in Casement? Why? 15k is more than sufficient and if built to the right standard it will be more appealing to bring in non gaa public.

Are you saying that when stadiums like Thurles, the GG and Fitzgerald need upgrades in the next decade we should built 40 or 50k again because thats what was there. Tuam is undergoing a minor redevelopement at the moment but rather than having the common sense to build a nice 10k for regular league games and club games they instead are trying to keep it over 20k in the hope of getting a championship game once in a blue moon. Its only over a decade ago that Clare had the bright idea of building a 42k stadium in Ennis. Thanfully that never saw the light of day due to the financial crash.

Its about time we got the thinking cap on and stop being the typical Paddy and planning for next month when we should have a solid plan in place for the next 10years. Its an attitude that has served us poorly in politics and is serving the GAA poorly when it comes to future proofing the organisation.

Pete_Cavan · 18-05-2020 09:44PM

threeball wrote: »

I'm not on about tearing down stadiums but there are many in the pipeline to be redeveloped, most with completely illogical and completely useless plans. Can anyone justify Mayo spending 18million on the stand with built when they could have had two smaller stands on both sides with no obstruction for the same money. Theres plans to build a 30k stadium in Casement? Why? 15k is more than sufficient and if built to the right standard it will be more appealing to bring in non gaa public.

Are you saying that when stadiums like Thurles, the GG and Fitzgerald need upgrades in the next decade we should built 40 or 50k again because thats what was there. Tuam is undergoing a minor redevelopement at the moment but rather than having the common sense to build a nice 10k for regular league games and club games they instead are trying to keep it over 20k in the hope of getting a championship game once in a blue moon. Its only over a decade ago that Clare had the bright idea of building a 42k stadium in Ennis. Thanfully that never saw the light of day due to the financial crash.

Its about time we got the thinking cap on and stop being the typical Paddy and planning for next month when we should have a solid plan in place for the next 10years. Its an attitude that has served us poorly in politics and is serving the GAA poorly when it comes to future proofing the organisation.

Casement (like most things up north) has been distorted by politics and other nonsense, soccer and rugby got stadiums redeveloped and the GAA was happy to take the NI Exe money to get a new stadium for themselves. The plans were over the top and again influenced by other factors (GAA needing a big/better stadium than soccer and rugby, etc.) I don't think you would find anyone who wouldn't say the whole thing is a cluster**** from start to finish but the same situation doesn't exist anywhere else. I really don't thing there are stadiums "many in the pipeline to be redeveloped, most with completely illogical and completely useless plans", that pipeline ended a long time ago. You refer to a plan for CP in Ennis but that is long dead and a more modest redevelopment happened.

Nobody is trying to justify the money spent on the stand in McHale Park but unless you have a time machine, we can't change it. This is what I was talking about with the "I wouldn't start from here" answer. Unless you want to knock the lot and rebuild like some Bundesliga stadium, we have live with what we have. In the majority of cases, replacing a stand is all that can realistically achievable in terms of big investment and patching up whatever else is there. Whatever else is generally a terrace and once it complies with basic standards it will suffice. You seem fixated on capacity, in most stadiums the capacity comes from the terraces, demolishing a terrace to rebuild a smaller terrace just to get to a capacity you agree with is madness. The existing capacity costs nothing, even if it isn't used.

The likes of Semple and GG have the capacity they have and reducing them would involve tearing down the stadium, the very thing you said you weren't advocating. Both could do with replacing a stand in the next decade but that wouldn't make a big difference to overall capacity. I am saying any new stand should focus on providing top facilities at the expense of capacity but either would still be 40+. If you want to substantially reduce capacity, you are rebuilding almost the entire stadium, that makes absolutely no sense.

I think most County Boards have moved on from the big project plans of the Celtic Tiger years, you don't seem to have. You are the one talking about new professional team stadiums which cost €20m. The reality is smaller investments on individual stands are what will be happening going forward.

TCDStudent1 · 18-05-2020 10:19PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This thing of every county should have something like X stadium should be and then a big provisional ground completely ignores the existing situation. It's the "well I wouldn't start from here" type answer. The reality is stadiums exist as they are and ripping them down and rebuilding to some template will cost more than adapting and upgrading over time. If starting from scratch these template ideas would be great but we have existing stadia and many with existing debt, neither are just going to disappear.

I mean that the GG, yes it is probably over-sized but what is to be gained from demolishing to reduce capacity? It would be cheaper and better value for money to just replace the main stand and have a stadium which can host big games. Most stadia hold around 20k or less and there is nothing to be gained by knocking serviceable stands to rebuild at reduced capacity.

In many cases there is only really one stand that needs full replacement, generally the main stand. A roofed seated stand, plenty of well maintained toilets, accessible shops and good facilities for players are required here. In some cases this can be achieved by upgrading the existing stand, Clare had a plan to give the main stand at CP a fairly major overhaul, don't know if it went ahead. In some cases, like Newbridge, you have to start again.

Terraces most places are generally fine and if not, most can be brought up to a reasonable standard relatively cheaply. Roofs over terraces are a nicetto have but not necessary, people know what the weather will be like before leaving home and dress accordingly. Umbrellas can also be used, particularly if the terrace isn't full. I don't think roof makes much differencey in terms of atmosphere, unless the space is fully enclosed, the sound disperses in all directions anyway.

One thing that I really dislike about the Gaelic Grounds is the absence of a 'back' on the seats in the stand. I think it might be the only stand I have seen that in. A small thing but irritates the hell out of me!

GAA Infastructure

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