GAA Infastructure

BloodyBill

threeball wrote: »

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dont quite get your point tbh? What about Ulster and Munster finals, mayo V galway?

I have said before that each province should have one mini croker but every county ground shouldn't exceed 15k. It's just not needed and a total waste of funds.

Every Munster Hurling match is over 15,000. Cork v Limerick of a Saturday night can get 35,000. Tipp v Cork the same. Clare v Limerick will be 30,000 plus. I don't think you know the Munster hurling crowds. That Waterford is going for a 16 000 capacity will limit them. Waterford v Cork or Tipp could bring 25 to 30 thousand

roadmaster

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one,

Westmeath GAA are replacing all the seats in the main stand in Cusack park. Its good to see they have coped themselves on and not wasted money building a new stand. Cusack park is a fine grounds from what I seen the few times I have being to it. It only needs a small tidy up.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/163974/0/0?returnUrl=transactions.asp&b=

threeball

roadmaster wrote: »

Sorry for digging up an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one,

Westmeath GAA are replacing all the seats in the main stand in Cusack park. Its good to see they have coped themselves on and not wasted money building a new stand. Cusack park is a fine grounds from what I seen the few times I have being to it. It only needs a small tidy up.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/163974/0/0?returnUrl=transactions.asp&b=

Hopefully this pandemic will knock some sense in to the county boards regarding the white elephants they're so fond of building. If they got another year or two like this in the next decade they wouldn't be able to service the debt and would crash the association into a wall.

CrabRevolution

threeball wrote: »

Hopefully this pandemic will knock some sense in to the county boards regarding the white elephants they're so fond of building. If they got another year or two like this in the next decade they wouldn't be able to service the debt and would crash the association into a wall.

In fairness I think the day of the concrete cathedral of terracing and windowsill/breezeblock "seats" is over. While a few Munster and Connacht counties built enormous white elephants in the 2000s, most counties were going for more modest realistic designs in the 2010s.

Then Cork went for their expensive vanity project with PuC which has definitely sealed the deal in ensuring that GAA HQ will keep a tight leash on any future projects.

Any design I've seen lately is much more realistic and modest.

threeball

CrabRevolution wrote: »

In fairness I think the day of the concrete cathedral of terracing and windowsill/breezeblock "seats" is over. While a few Munster and Connacht counties built enormous white elephants in the 2000s, most counties were going for more modest realistic designs in the 2010s.

Then Cork went for their expensive vanity project with PuC which has definitely sealed the deal in ensuring that GAA HQ will keep a tight leash on any future projects.

Any design I've seen lately is much more realistic and modest.

Casement Park??
There's others as well. No GAA ground can justify more than a 15k capacity. Then have 4 dedicated grounds with 35-40k for provincial semis, finals, AIQF and possibly semis too.

threeball

This should be your model GAA ground going forward

roadmaster

CrabRevolution wrote: »

In fairness I think the day of the concrete cathedral of terracing and windowsill/breezeblock "seats" is over. While a few Munster and Connacht counties built enormous white elephants in the 2000s, most counties were going for more modest realistic designs in the 2010s.

Then Cork went for their expensive vanity project with PuC which has definitely sealed the deal in ensuring that GAA HQ will keep a tight leash on any future projects.

Any design I've seen lately is much more realistic and modest.

If Meath can get there place of the ground it would be a perfect size at 21k for most county's

CrabRevolution

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roadmaster wrote: »

If Meath can get there place of the ground it would be a perfect size at 21k for most county's

Judging from the cost just for Phase 1 (of 4) of the upgrade, our grandchildren might get to see Páirc Tailteann completed.

roadmaster

CrabRevolution wrote: »

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Judging from the cost just for Phase 1 (of 4) of the upgrade, our grandchildren might get to see Páirc Tailteann completed.

What has happened it didn't start yet, wasn't due last spring?

smelly sock

roadmaster wrote: »

If Meath can get there place of the ground it would be a perfect size at 21k for most county's

In terms of Geographical location Newbridge would be better for Leinster Championship.

Newbridge is definitely going to be completed and it's also a modest enough redesign so shouldn't take that long. I think Meath will revisit the planning and design phase a come back with something around 15k to 18k supporters which is more than enough you feel.

n Newbridge apart from the Mayo game in the qualifiers where it would have filled to 20,000 I can't see it ever needing to be to big.

It's a real lesson as another poster has pointed out. CB's need to be more realistic and economic when it comes to these things.

CrabRevolution

roadmaster wrote: »

What has happened it didn't start yet, wasn't due last spring?

No, but they're well into the planning and design phase and the projected costs have been released. It was estimated that phase 1 (Which isn't even the largest portion of the project) will cost €12.3 Million.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

This should be your model GAA ground going forward

Bit lifeless looking. Should always have some terracing.

CrabRevolution

smelly sock wrote: »

In terms of Geographical location Newbridge would be better for Leinster Championship.

Newbridge is definitely going to be completed and it's also a modest enough redesign so shouldn't take that long. I think Meath will revisit the planning and design phase a come back with something around 15k to 18k supporters which is more than enough you feel.

n Newbridge apart from the Mayo game in the qualifiers where it would have filled to 20,000 I can't see it ever needing to be to big.

It's a real lesson as another poster has pointed out. CB's need to be more realistic and economic when it comes to these things.

We've spent the guts of a million euro over the last 5 years on planning and design for Páirc Tailteann, why would we scrap it just to drop the capacity by 2000?

That's not to say future phases won't be delayed or reduced.

threeball

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Bit lifeless looking. Should always have some terracing.

Not that difficult to omit the seats at either end and create a terrace is it? I guarantee theres 10 times more life in there with 6 or 7000 people than with 15k in PUC or 40k in Croke Park. Even county finals would have a place like that rocking.

CrabRevolution

threeball wrote: »

Not that difficult to omit the seats at either end and create a terrace is it? I guarantee theres 10 times more life in there with 6 or 7000 people than with 15k in PUC or 40k in Croke Park. Even county finals would have a place like that rocking.

Cost £20 Million in 2006. Expand it to GAA stadium size, and add construction inflation and you're looking at €35 Million+
No GAA county could afford that or make any return on investment.

threeball

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Cost £20 Million in 2006. Expand it to GAA stadium size, and add construction inflation and you're looking at €35 Million+
No GAA county could afford that or make any return on investment.

Theres a lot of infrastucture around that stadium such as external 5G pitches etc thats included in that. A stadium maybe not quite to the exact same standard is achievable for around €20million. Show me any county that did a decent upgrade and spent less.

Mayo spent €17m on a bloody middlin stand. Would they not have been better to build that.

CrabRevolution

threeball wrote: »

Theres a lot of infrastucture around that stadium such as external 5G pitches etc thats included in that. A stadium maybe not quite to the exact same standard is achievable for around €20million. Show me any county that did a decent upgrade and spent less.

Mayo spent €17m on a bloody middlin stand. Would they not have been better to build that.

Apparently not; the £20 Million was the stadium alone. The expanded complex was £32 Million.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071008040303/http://www.smc-doncaster.co.uk/press/091106.html

PTH2009

God knows what lives in some of the toilets in some grounds

Ray Donovan

threeball wrote: »

Not that difficult to omit the seats at either end and create a terrace is it? I guarantee theres 10 times more life in there with 6 or 7000 people than with 15k in PUC or 40k in Croke Park. Even county finals would have a place like that rocking.

Covered terraces at either end would be ideal a la the one behind one of the goals in Nowlan Park.

You also wouldnt even need as many rows of seats in the stand as a GAA pitch would be a lot longer therefore lengthening each row of seats. Depends on capacity needed I suppose.

On a side note a problem I have with attending GAA matches is the venue choice at times due to proposed attendance. For example a match could be ideally suited to being held in O'Connor Park in Tullamore and would close to fill the 20,000 capacity. Place would be rocking. But powers that be think, sh1t the capacity is going to be tested here so it's moved to a ground where the capacity is way too big for the crowd and the atmosphere is lost and we're looking at empty terraces behind the goals for the sake of maybe 1,000 extra people at the game.

Bringing every sort of hurling match to Thurles before the Round Robin was the perfect example of this. Tullamore/Portlaoise would have been fine.

threeball

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Covered terraces at either end would be ideal a la the one behind one of the goals in Nowlan Park.

You also wouldnt even need as many rows of seats in the stand as a GAA pitch would be a lot longer therefore lengthening each row of seats. Depends on capacity needed I suppose.

On a side note a problem I have with attending GAA matches is the venue choice at times due to proposed attendance. For example a match could be ideally suited to being held in O'Connor Park in Tullamore and would close to fill the 20,000 capacity. Place would be rocking. But powers that be think, sh1t the capacity is going to be tested here so it's moved to a ground where the capacity is way too big for the crowd and the atmosphere is lost and we're looking at empty terraces behind the goals for the sake of maybe 1,000 extra people at the game.

Bringing every sort of hurling match to Thurles before the Round Robin was the perfect example of this. Tullamore/Portlaoise would have been fine.

Perfect example of the GAA shooting themselves in the foot. In their clamber to get an extra 3000 in the gate for one game they ignore the vast amount of season tickets that could be sold if there was a scarcity mentality and the fear of missing out. This would mean much better attendances, atmospheres and revenues across all IC competitions. To be the honest the lads running the show at the moment are the most clueless I've seen in my lifetime.

roadmaster

If a small county do up a ground to a tidy capacity of 10k they should be aloud host any home game there weather its against Dublin or london in the championship

recyclebin

I'd love if the GAA went with a couple of small stadiums like the Doncaster one. Imagine having a clear line of sight with no stupid pillars in the way. Closed stadium would provide more shelter from the elements too. Leinster could really do with one stadium like this. Somewhere in Laois/Offaly/Westmeath would be ideal and could be used for matches between teams from other provinces too.

I don't get why Kildare don't move their grounds to a green field site too. The site in Newbridge is very tight and in the middle of town. It's not suitable if you think about it longterm.

klairondavis

recyclebin wrote: »

I don't get why Kildare don't move their grounds to a green field site too. The site in Newbridge is very tight and in the middle of town. It's not suitable if you think about it longterm.

That was the idea about 15 years ago under the town development plan. The existing ground was to be sold for development and Kildare GAA would be given a site out by Old Connell to build this:



The existing plan is far more realistic and I think most Kildare people are glad that the current location is being retained. It's one of the best located grounds in the country just off the town's main street. 12,000 capacity is more than enough for Kildare's needs.

klairondavis

klairondavis wrote: »

That was the idea about 15 years ago under the town development plan. The existing ground was to be sold for development and Kildare GAA would be given a site out by Old Connell to build this:



The existing plan is far more realistic and I think most Kildare people are glad that the current location is being retained. It's one of the best located grounds in the country just off the town's main street. 12,000 capacity is more than enough for Kildare's needs.

Far better for a bit of atmosphere too having it in the town.

cson

threeball wrote: »

Not that difficult to omit the seats at either end and create a terrace is it? I guarantee theres 10 times more life in there with 6 or 7000 people than with 15k in PUC or 40k in Croke Park. Even county finals would have a place like that rocking.

Something like the RheinEnergie Stadium in Koln with mixed standing/seating should be the blueprint (sized appropriately - 50k is way to big for everyone except Dublin).

I think the GAA/IRFU/FAI will have to get on board with multi use developments if they want viable higher capacity stadia. I concede that the different dimensions per game would take away from the atmosphere somewhat though.

My own province Connacht; the lack of a unified approach to stadia has resulted in McHale Park (25k, €16m in 2008), Hyde Park(25k, can't source what the new stand there cost) and Pearse Stadium (26k, €12m in 2003). They're all middling stadia with crumbling terraces, 1 good seated stand and horrendous facilities for players and spectators - access to MacHale and Pearse is consistently a joke.

What if the Connacht Council/County Boards had poured that money into 1 stadium for the province? You'd have a fantastic venue that you could rent to Connacht Rugby, probably make a few quid from concerts and distribute equally to the counties.

Anyway I'm sure there's plenty of holes to be poked in that re county board funding etc etc but I believe the parochial nature of the country in general leads to these white elephants that get filled 2 or 3 times a year if we're lucky.

threeball

cson wrote: »

Something like the RheinEnergie Stadium in Koln with mixed standing/seating should be the blueprint.

I think the GAA/IRFU/FAI will have to get on board with multi use developments if they want viable higher capacity stadia. I concede that the different dimensions per game would take away from the atmosphere somewhat though.

My own province Connacht; the lack of a unified approach to stadia has resulted in McHale Park (25k, €16m in 2008), Hyde Park(25k, can't source what the new stand there cost) and Pearse Stadium (26k, €12m in 2003). They're all middling stadia with crumbling terraces, 1 good seated stand and horrendous facilities for players and spectators - access to MacHale and Pearse is consistently a joke.

What if the Connacht Council/County Boards had poured that money into 1 stadium for the province? You'd have a fantastic venue that you could rent to Connacht Rugby, probably make a few quid from concerts and distribute equally to the counties.

Anyway I'm sure there's plenty of holes to be poked in that re county board funding etc etc but I believe the parochial nature of the country in general leads to these white elephants that get filled 2 or 3 times a year if we're lucky.

I'm from connaught too and every county should have its small Doncaster style stadium to host league games, club games smaller all Ireland series games with one cheaper PUC style stadium per province. Connaught would only need 30k. Ulster the same. Leinster and munster 40k. The main thing should be the pitches would should be pristine croke Park type surfaces that allow high quality games regardless of the time of year.

I don't see other sports getting onboard due to dimensions and the likes of Connaught rugby wouldn't want to be anywhere but Galway City which wouldn't suit. You're average gas fan would prefer a provincial town.

threeball

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Far better for a bit of atmosphere too having it in the town.

Is that the old plan or the current one. Decent plan if its enacted correctly

BloodyBill

Each province is different with different crowds and dynamics at work. The Munster Championship round Robin is obviously out ahead in terms of the crowds it attracts. And the way the final alternates between Thurles,Limerick and Cork works aswell. Geographically it's the biggest province in Ireland and one PUC type stadium just wouldnt work. Whatever county the stadium was picked to be in would have a distinct advantage every year they reached a Munster Final. Every single year,like Dublin in Leinster .

salmocab

cson wrote: »

Something like the RheinEnergie Stadium in Koln with mixed standing/seating should be the blueprint (sized appropriately - 50k is way to big for everyone except Dublin).

I think the GAA/IRFU/FAI will have to get on board with multi use developments if they want viable higher capacity stadia. I concede that the different dimensions per game would take away from the atmosphere somewhat though.

My own province Connacht; the lack of a unified approach to stadia has resulted in McHale Park (25k, €16m in 2008), Hyde Park(25k, can't source what the new stand there cost) and Pearse Stadium (26k, €12m in 2003). They're all middling stadia with crumbling terraces, 1 good seated stand and horrendous facilities for players and spectators - access to MacHale and Pearse is consistently a joke.

What if the Connacht Council/County Boards had poured that money into 1 stadium for the province? You'd have a fantastic venue that you could rent to Connacht Rugby, probably make a few quid from concerts and distribute equally to the counties.

Anyway I'm sure there's plenty of holes to be poked in that re county board funding etc etc but I believe the parochial nature of the country in general leads to these white elephants that get filled 2 or 3 times a year if we're lucky.

GAA and rugby/soccer stadiums aren’t really compatible, the pitches get horribly lost and it kills the atmosphere.

threeball

BloodyBill wrote: »

Each province is different with different crowds and dynamics at work. The Munster Championship round Robin is obviously out ahead in terms of the crowds it attracts. And the way the final alternates between Thurles,Limerick and Cork works aswell. Geographically it's the biggest province in Ireland and one PUC type stadium just wouldnt work. Whatever county the stadium was picked to be in would have a distinct advantage every year they reached a Munster Final. Every single year,like Dublin in Leinster .

It wouldn't be the county stadium. That county would play in their own 10k stadia. These would be specifically be for IC games within that province and cross province in the all Ireland series. Munster now has 4 white elephants with only one to a really decent standard in PUC. Thurles is a great pitch but a poor ground, Limerick is a ghost stadia unless its packed, Killarney is irrelevant except once every two years. Absolutely stupid and wasteful to spend money on below average monoliths that are only used properly once or twice a year. Its like buying an Hummer to drive to the shops at the top of the road.