Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Kermit.de.frog · 14-05-2020 12:00PM

Aegir wrote: »

Mine has taken this pandemic very seriously and has decided to sleep through the entire year, only waking to eat and use the litter tray.

In fairness, this ain’t really a massive life change for her.

Don't cats usually sleep 18 hours a day or something like that?

Drumpot · 14-05-2020 12:02PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't cats usually sleep 18 hours a day or something like that?

And spend the other 6 hours scheming.

Lolle06 · 14-05-2020 12:03PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Its been talk of America in recent weeks,

As American healthcare is so expensive the government are paying for covid cases so everyone will go to hospitals , its claimed hospitals receive 8 grand per covid cases and up to 30 grand per ventilated case,

Now a fact is hospitals in a lot of regions in the states are 50 % down on normal traffic of people ,
People are putting things off as they don't want to be near Covid patients , This has lead to nurses and doctors being let go or furloughed , a tick of box and you receive 8 grand ,stick someone on a ventilator for 30 minutes you receive 30 grand , There a nurses wage for the year you save a colleagues and possible a friends job

Google it plenty of different reports

It’s been talk of America?

This is the second time I come across a poster Boards.ie that claims these things.
Nowhere else have I read about it...

Wouldn’t you think that Trump would shout this fact from the rooftops if true (or mildly believable for his followers)?
He could’ve taken this as an good excuse to stop the free Covid-19 hospital treatments for all. I bet that man and his administration would only be too happy if the plebs of society go without hospital treatment, as they usually have to do.

Or are you just trying to highlight the shambolic health insurance situation in the USA, that hospitals are so defunct and broke they‘d have to rely on insurance fraud?

Miike · 14-05-2020 12:03PM

Duke of Url wrote: »

why do you not have reservations about Irelands numbers compared to any other countries?

I guess working on the frontline kind of gives me a sense of the scale of the whole thing, I'm not sure how to answer that question to be honest. I don't have experience of how other countries health systems are going about it but I can see with my own two eyes how ours is.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-05-2020 12:04PM

Drumpot wrote: »

And spend the other 6 hours scheming.

But that leaves no time to act on the scheming

tobefrank321 · 14-05-2020 12:05PM

Mike3287 wrote: »

They've done an awful job, only sheep believe otherwise

They've had 4 things to sort

Border/flights, still open to free travel with no enforcement of quarantine,a bloody leaflet handed out

Travellers doing as they feel, spreading virus like a pack of rats

Hospitals 33% of infections coming from then

Nursing Homes, no comment here i'll get banned

Not to mention:

Leaving Cert fiasco

Testing issues

Contact tracing delays

And the compensation we will have to fork out for years
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/lawyers-expect-surge-of-covid-lawsuits-from-leaving-cert-students-and-bereaved-families/ar-BB144cVg?ocid=spartanntp

Kermit.de.frog · 14-05-2020 12:06PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Not to mention:

Leaving Cert fiasco

Testing issues

Contact tracing delays

And the compensation we will have to fork out for years
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/lawyers-expect-surge-of-covid-lawsuits-from-leaving-cert-students-and-bereaved-families/ar-BB144cVg?ocid=spartanntp

Red level shinner bot alert here

Because they'd have done better...

DevilsHaircut · 14-05-2020 12:07PM

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1260751783682441216

yourdeadwright · 14-05-2020 12:08PM

Lolle06 wrote: »

It’s been talk of America?

This is the second time I come across a poster Boards.ie that claims these things.
Nowhere else have I read about it...

Wouldn’t you think that Trump would shout this fact from the rooftops if true (or mildly believable for his followers)?
He could’ve taken this as an good excuse to stop the free Covid-19 hospital treatments for all. I bet that man and his administration would only be too happy if the plebs of society go without hospital treatment, as they usually have to do.

Or are you just trying to highlight the shambolic health insurance situation in the USA, that hospitals are so defunct and broke they‘d have to rely on insurance fraud?

I read it online a couple of times a couple of weeks ago id be lying if I told you where as I can't remember,

Iv also heard Elon Musk speaking about it last week ,

The below is from USA today you can see how it can be exploited

"Our ruling: True

We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

Our fact-check sources
•The Spectator: "Hospitals get more to list patients as COVID-19 and three times as much if the patient goes on ventilator"
•The World Net Daily: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
•Snopes: "Is Medicare paying hospitals $13K for patients diagnosed with COVID-19, $39K for those on ventilators
•PolitiFact: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
•Kaiser Health News: "Estimated cost for treating the uninsured hospitalized with COVID-19"
•Factcheck.org: "Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count"
•Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act
•U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: "Guidance for Certifying Death Due to COVID-19"
•Verywellhealth.com: "How a DRG determines how much a hospital gets paid"
•American Hospital Association Special Bulletin
•American Hospital Association special bulletin.
•Email response from Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Thank you for supporting our journalism. You can subscribe to our print edition, ad-free app or electronic newspaper replica here.

Published 9:38 AM EDT Apr 27, 2020

Lolle06 · 14-05-2020 12:10PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I would wonder who they are testing though. Is it just random community testing? Obviously at this stage, with just a tiny number of tests coming back positive relatively to the amount done ,it means theres very little covid in the community, so how do they choose who to test now? There are not anywhere near 40k people experiencing flu symptoms going to get tested

A family member was tested last week - about 3 weeks after mild symptoms started.
He didn’t fit the testing criteria 3 weeks ago, but last week all of a sudden he got sent for the test after all.

He is living with family members who are isolated, WFH for the past 2 months, no social contacts except for going shopping 1-2 x week.

Mind you, he is still waiting for the result...

Professor Moriarty · 14-05-2020 12:15PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Red level shinner bot alert here

Because they'd have done better...

Hmmm. Would be interesting to see who in SF would get which ministerial jobs. Can't quite see how they would have a better cabinet.

Duke of Url · 14-05-2020 12:16PM

Miike wrote: »

I guess working on the frontline kind of gives me a sense of the scale of the whole thing, I'm not sure how to answer that question to be honest. I don't have experience of how other countries health systems are going about it but I can see with my own two eyes how ours is.

Im highlighting that people are calling out other countries as falsifying numbers without looking at our own doorstep.

I personally believe if we had accurate test numbers then within the briefings they would supply a breakdown of testing.

HSE: We are doing 40K tests a week!

Journo: Whats the breakdown of who's getting tested?

HSE

Journo: How many tests were conducted in each County?

HSE

Journo: How many people who tested positive got later tests to confirm negative aka confirmed recovered?

HSE:

wakka12 · 14-05-2020 12:18PM

https://news.sky.com/story/a-city-in-denial-over-coronavirus-mexicos-capital-is-on-the-brink-of-a-covid-19-disaster-11987726

Mexico city on the brink of disaster

"People here have been very sceptical that the disease even exists," they tell us.

"They think it's something the government or somebody else is doing, they don't believe in COVID as such."

The point they make is that people either don't want to accept that the virus is a problem or worse, they know it is but don't want to be stigmatised by having a family member categorised as a COVID-19 death.

"The families can't believe their relative passed away from COVID, they refuse to believe that their relative passed away from the virus. The person who died, they don't even realize what happened to them."

Many of the funeral parlours we have spoken to say that people will try to pretend that their relative did not have COVID-19 but died of natural causes. We know of and have spoken to funeral parlours less scrupulously honest than the Zapatas ladies, who will fake the death certificate so the families can have a normal wake at their homes and a normal burial, regardless of the fact that they could all become infected.

Dr Juan Jose Lira built his clinic 30 years ago.
Neza is one of the most violent areas in Mexico City.

Every day his clinic is filled with people who have coughs, a temperature, aching bones and pallid complexions.
None think they have COVID-19, even the ones who minutes later die in his surgery.

"Some people don't even believe it [coronavirus] exists. Patients come here and I tell them, it's probably COVID, they say no, that doesn't exist. The national government made that up," he tells me.

"Because of ignorance, people are not really aware because they haven't seen a case up close."

Miike · 14-05-2020 12:22PM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Im highlighting that people are calling out other countries as falsifying numbers without looking at our own doorstep.

I personally believe if we had accurate test numbers then within the briefings they would supply a breakdown of testing.

HSE: We are doing 40K tests a week!

Journo: Whats the breakdown of who's getting tested?

HSE

Journo: How many tests were conducted in each County?

HSE

Journo: How many people who tested positive got later tests to confirm negative aka confirmed recovered?

HSE:

So they'll 'make up' the numbers being tested but making up the breakdown of the numbers is below them? If they were going to lie on this scale I'm fairly sure they'd get someone to sit down and spend 5 minutes making up further stats :pac:

Professor Moriarty · 14-05-2020 12:24PM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Im highlighting that people are calling out other countries as falsifying numbers without looking at our own doorstep.

I personally believe if we had accurate test numbers then within the briefings they would supply a breakdown of testing.

HSE: We are doing 40K tests a week!

Journo: Whats the breakdown of who's getting tested?

HSE

Journo: How many tests were conducted in each County?

HSE

Journo: How many people who tested positive got later tests to confirm negative aka confirmed recovered?

HSE:

Do you have any evidence that the HSE are falsifying testing numbers?

seamus · 14-05-2020 12:24PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I would wonder who they are testing though. Is it just random community testing? Obviously at this stage, with just a tiny number of tests coming back positive relatively to the amount done ,it means theres very little covid in the community, so how do they choose who to test now? There are not anywhere near 40k people experiencing flu symptoms going to get tested

You have healthcare staff and care home and nursing home settings who are being blanket tested. That started early last week IIRC. Anyone being referred for outpatient procedures at hospitals also have to be tested before they can get an appointment.
And then you have the much wider criteria for GP testing.

The next steps will be regular (twice-weekly) testing for healthcare staff and nursing/care home residents, and I expect this will also be expanded to provide access for other healthcare professionals who have close contact with the public; dentists, physios, opthamologists, etc.

As capacity & turnaround continues ramping up, access to testing will be spread wider and wider based on relative risk. I imagine by the end of this at least half of the country will have been tested at least once.

Lolle06 wrote: »

A family member was tested last week - about 3 weeks after mild symptoms started.
He didn’t fit the testing criteria 3 weeks ago, but last week all of a sudden he got sent for the test all.

My mother probably had Covid 4/5 weeks ago. Initially she fit the criteria, GP put in an urgent test request, heard nothing back. GP put in two more urgent test requests over the following week, still nothing back. Then they tightened the criteria and she was no longer eligible.

She got referred for a test last Thursday (she needed it to get a scan done), got an appointment on Friday afternoon, had her result first thing Monday morning.

tobefrank321 · 14-05-2020 12:25PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Red level shinner bot alert here

Because they'd have done better...

Nope, never voted Shinner in my life, unlikely I ever will.

Unlikely to vote for your party either again

You're revealed yourself on numerous occasions to be a FG plant, pointing the finger everywhere except Ireland. Most people saw through you long ago.

Colibri · 14-05-2020 12:25PM

seamus wrote: »

My mother probably had Covid 4/5 weeks ago. Initially she fit the criteria, GP put in an urgent test request, heard nothing back. GP put in two more urgent test requests over the following week, still nothing back. Then they tightened the criteria and she was no longer eligible.

She got referred for a test last Thursday (she needed it to get a scan done), got an appointment on Friday afternoon, had her result first thing Monday morning.

How is she doing?

seamus · 14-05-2020 12:27PM

Colibri wrote: »

How is she doing?

All negative now at this stage, thanks for asking. Just has some residual aches and pains left over from it.

Duke of Url · 14-05-2020 12:27PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that the HSE are falsifying testing numbers?

Do you have evidence that other countries are falsifying numbers?

Colibri · 14-05-2020 12:27PM

seamus wrote: »

All negative now at this stage, thanks for asking. Just has some residual aches and pains left over from it.

Fantastic, glad to hear that

podgeandrodge · 14-05-2020 12:27PM

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/13/60-of-coronavirus-patient-deaths-not-counted-toward-total-moscow-officials-say-a70269
Another country admits huge undercount of deaths. Safe to say covid deaths globally are a minimum of 100,000 higher than the official count

But then we have people saying deaths are overstated:

Professor Walter Ricciardi, Scientific Adviser to, Italy’s Minister of Health, reports, “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88% patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”

Recording the numbers of those who die with Coronavirus will inflate the CFR as opposed to those that died from Coronavirus, which will deflate the CFR.

Report from the Italian National Institute of Health: analysed 355 fatalities and found only three patients (0.8%) had no prior medical conditions. See Table 1 in the paper; (99% who died had one pre-existing health condition): 49% had three or more health conditions; 26% had two other ‘pathologies’, and 25% had one.

The most common problems in the 355 who died were: 76% high blood pressure; 36% diabetes, and 33% ischemic heart disease.

The average age of deceased and COVID-19 positive patients was 79.5 years (median 80.5, range 31-103). The median age of those that died was >15 years higher than patients who contracted the infection (median age: died 81 years – infected 63 years).

Lolle06 · 14-05-2020 12:28PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I read it online a couple of times a couple of weeks ago id be lying if I told you where as I can't remember,

Iv also heard Elon Musk speaking about it last week ,

The below is from USA today you can see how it can be exploited

"Our ruling: True

We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

This higher allocation of funds has been made possible under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act through a Medicare 20% add-on to its regular payment for COVID-19 patients, as verified by USA TODAY through the American Hospital Association Special Bulletin on the topic.

Our fact-check sources
•The Spectator: "Hospitals get more to list patients as COVID-19 and three times as much if the patient goes on ventilator"
•The World Net Daily: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
•Snopes: "Is Medicare paying hospitals $13K for patients diagnosed with COVID-19, $39K for those on ventilators
•PolitiFact: "Hospitals get paid more to list patients as COVID-19"
•Kaiser Health News: "Estimated cost for treating the uninsured hospitalized with COVID-19"
•Factcheck.org: "Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count"
•Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act
•U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: "Guidance for Certifying Death Due to COVID-19"
•Verywellhealth.com: "How a DRG determines how much a hospital gets paid"
•American Hospital Association Special Bulletin
•American Hospital Association special bulletin.
•Email response from Marty Makary, a surgeon and professor of health policy and management at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Thank you for supporting our journalism. You can subscribe to our print edition, ad-free app or electronic newspaper replica here.

Published 9:38 AM EDT Apr 27, 2020

You didn’t copy all of it though...
especially this quote:

„ Ask FactCheck's conclusion: "Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting."

So basically, the treatment costs of Covid-19 are in summary higher than for a general pneumonia case for example, therefore the hospital charges the Covid-19 fees if the pneumonia patient tested positive for Covid-19. Seems legit, no?

silverharp · 14-05-2020 12:30PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I read it online a couple of times a couple of weeks ago id be lying if I told you where as I can't remember,

Iv also heard Elon Musk speaking about it last week ,

The below is from USA today you can see how it can be exploited ......

I was listening to a US doctor on a phone in a couple of nights back. Doctors are learning that its not good to use ventilators. they are switching to high flow cannula oxygen also placing patients in a prone position at the very start. Its illegal to pay doctors on any kind of kick back system so I doubt you will find an instance where a doctor overrides their clinical judgement in this situation.
Nobody is talking about ventilators now because they arent useful mostly

Duke of Url · 14-05-2020 12:30PM

Miike wrote: »

So they'll 'make up' the numbers being tested but making up the breakdown of the numbers is below them? If they were going to lie on this scale I'm fairly sure they'd get someone to sit down and spend 5 minutes making up further stats :pac:

They dont provide any breakdown of numbers.

All they say is we do 40K tests a week.

If asked for breakdowns they are not provided.

Without analytics it could be numbers pulled out from thin air.

New Home · 14-05-2020 12:30PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But that leaves no time to act on the scheming

They can multi-task, you know...

Professor Moriarty · 14-05-2020 12:31PM

Duke of Url wrote: »

Do you have evidence that other countries are falsifying numbers?

Do you have evidence that the HSE is falsifying testing numbers?

Kermit.de.frog · 14-05-2020 12:31PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Nope, never voted Shinner in my life, unlikely I ever will.

Unlikely to vote for your party either again

You're revealed yourself on numerous occasions to be a FG plant, pointing the finger everywhere except Ireland. Most people saw through you long ago.

Did you just call me a plant?

I support no party. I do support common sense though.

Kermit.de.frog · 14-05-2020 12:34PM

wakka12 wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/a-city-in-denial-over-coronavirus-mexicos-capital-is-on-the-brink-of-a-covid-19-disaster-11987726

Mexico city on the brink of disaster

In Africa the US embassy in Tanzania has just issued an alert that hospitals there are overwhelmed

Despite limited official reports, all evidence points to exponential growth of the epidemic in Dar and other locations in Tanzania ...

Many hospitals in Dar es Salaam have been overwhelmed in recent weeks. Limited hospital capacity throughout Tanzania could result in life-threatening delays for medical care, including for those with Covid-19.

Miike · 14-05-2020 12:34PM

Duke of Url wrote: »

They dont provide any breakdown of numbers.

All they say is we do 40K tests a week.

If asked for breakdowns they are not provided.

Without analytics it could be numbers pulled out from thin air.

I understand what you're saying but what I'm trying to get at is - Lets say they are pulling the number out of the air, why wouldn't they just pull 'analytics' out of the air to satiate the media? Why would they tell half a lie?

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

Comments