Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 1:53pm

Need help

Our principal is asking us to send an email stating if we haven't completed the course with LC students. I presume they not entitled to demand this at all

paddybarry · 12-05-2020 2:08pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Need help

Our principal is asking us to send an email stating if we haven't completed the course with LC students. I presume they not entitled to demand this at all

Ring Union.

History Queen · 12-05-2020 2:25pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Need help

Our principal is asking us to send an email stating if we haven't completed the course with LC students. I presume they not entitled to demand this at all

As paddybarry said get union advice. Our principal just contacted us all to say we need to have our own class grades assigned this week, meet remotely within subject depts next week and give himfinal list the week after. He said he has enquired with ETB and Dept and no further guidance to teachers is expected as far as he can tell. He couldn't get a straight answer.

Newbie20 · 12-05-2020 2:41pm

What a joke this whole thing is. It shows how rushed it was despite the department pretending they had been working on it for ages. How could they not have had straightforward clear guidelines issued on the day they announced it, with answers ready for any potential questions that were going to pop up (Any teacher could have told them the questions they would be asked if teachers had been consulted)

wirelessdude01 · 12-05-2020 2:47pm

MacGyver007 wrote: »

Online meetings after school time, these meetings based on the agreed CP hours calendar at the start of the year

What a total waste of time for everyone involved.

km79 · 12-05-2020 2:50pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Need help

Our principal is asking us to send an email stating if we haven't completed the course with LC students. I presume they not entitled to demand this at all

an email to who?

History Queen · 12-05-2020 2:52pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

What a joke this whole thing is. It shows how rushed it was despite the department pretending they had been working on it for ages. How could they not have had straightforward clear guidelines issued on the day they announced it, with answers ready for any potential questions that were going to pop up (Any teacher could have told them the questions they would be asked if teachers had been consulted)

Have to say I'm really angry that we are being put in to this position. It isn't fair on us or the students. Some of them will be blissfully unaware, but some are very anxious about it all.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 2:55pm

History Queen wrote: »

As paddybarry said get union advice. Our principal just contacted us all to say we need to have our own class grades assigned this week, meet remotely within subject depts next week and give himfinal list the week after. He said he has enquired with ETB and Dept and no further guidance to teachers is expected as far as he can tell. He couldn't get a straight answer.

Documentation from the Dept is to arrive for the assessment process. I'll be waiting on that before I proceed. For now, all you can do is gather your own data

2011abc · 12-05-2020 3:10pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI can't even send an email to all its members.

Not sure they were sent to ANY ( who didn’t Subsequently email or ring in and request it )

History Queen · 12-05-2020 3:14pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Documentation from the Dept is to arrive for the assessment process. I'll be waiting on that before I proceed. For now, all you can do is gather your own data

Is it? Where did you see that? I've read the online documentation is it mentioned there, quite possible that I missed it.

Mardy Bum · 12-05-2020 3:24pm

History Queen wrote: »

Is it? Where did you see that? I've read the online documentation is it mentioned there, quite possible that I missed it.

They are formulating the assessment criteria this week.

The DES threw out a half baked plan last week that appears to have drawn up on the back of an envelope.

History Queen · 12-05-2020 3:26pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

They are formulating the assessment criteria this week.

The DES threw out a half baked plan last week that appears to have drawn up on the back of an envelope.

Is that confirmed though, that they are doing this? I had assumed that they were but email from my principal suggested no further guidance was expected and to follow what we have as best we can and get on with it.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 3:27pm

History Queen wrote: »

Is it? Where did you see that? I've read the online documentation is it mentioned there, quite possible that I missed it.

Couldn't pinpoint where I read it but as with all state exam data, there will be an official form to rank class and input results.

These documents are definitely to follow, otherwise it wud be a free-for-all with different types of documents being sent off to the Dept

History Queen · 12-05-2020 3:33pm

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Couldn't pinpoint where I read it but as with all state exam data, there will be an official form to rank class and input results.

These documents are definitely to follow, otherwise it wud be a free-for-all with different types of documents being sent off to the Dept

Ok, you make a good point. I suppose I can try do what our principal has asked this week amd if further details issue, well and good. I'm realising more and more as I try to do it, what a mistake this system is.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 12-05-2020 4:06pm

History Queen wrote: »

Ok, you make a good point. I suppose I can try do what our principal has asked this week amd if further details issue, well and good. I'm realising more and more as I try to do it, what a mistake this system is.

I have my data gathered now and am awaiting some documentation to guide us.

The Dept also promised online training (some kind of video) to help us fill in documents properly so hold off doing much more than that

Mardy Bum · 12-05-2020 5:03pm

They plan to mark students out of 1000 in each subject to "allow scope to differentiate between students of similar standard". Teachers will be predicting lottery numbers soon it this lunacy continues.

Newbie20 · 12-05-2020 5:22pm

As far as I know, it was the ASTI’s suggestion to mark out of 1000. Maybe I am missing something here but why the hell did they think that was a good suggestion? People think in percentages not out of one thousand! That’s just going to create more hassle of having to give them a mark out of 1000 and then convert afterwards. Pure nonsense.

They said it would make it easier to distinguish between students very close together. I don’t see how it helps but as I said maybe I’m missing something.

Mardy Bum · 12-05-2020 5:27pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

As far as I know, it was the ASTI’s suggestion to mark out of 1000. Maybe I am missing something here but why the hell did they think that was a good suggestion? People think in percentages not out of one thousand! That’s just going to create more hassle of having to give them a mark out of 1000 and then convert afterwards. Pure nonsense.

They said it would make it easier to distinguish between students very close together. I don’t see how it helps but as I said maybe I’m missing something.

This is from people who have never taught in a classroom and seem to think teachers are god-like in their abilities to differentiate students' academic capabilities.

mtoutlemonde · 12-05-2020 5:27pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

They plan to mark students out of 1000 in each subject to "allow scope to differentiate between students of similar standard". Teachers will be predicting lottery numbers soon it this lunacy continues.

We might as well decide the All Ireland as well. Going on previous performances, Dublin are sure to win.

Mardy Bum · 12-05-2020 5:36pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

We might as well decide the All Ireland as well. Going on previous performances, Dublin are sure to win.

We are also predicting the score, the scorers and the times they scored along with the amount of wides and successful kick outs.

km79 · 12-05-2020 5:40pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

We are also predicting the score, the scorers and the times they scored along with the amount of wides and successful kick outs.

Mayo will lose by a point
Dean rock will score most of dublins scores
Dublin will score a goal in the 19th minute of injury
Mayo will shoot 30 wides
All Cluxton kickouts successful

I’m from mayo

alroley · 12-05-2020 5:56pm

I am a little confused. So I have gotten averages of all of my students exams from 5th/6th year. I would predict that they would all go up by around 10% in the actual exam - so that's what I predict? But all my paperwork would suggest 10% lower than what I say.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-05-2020 6:05pm

alroley wrote: »

I am a little confused. So I have gotten averages of all of my students exams from 5th/6th year. I would predict that they would all go up by around 10% in the actual exam - so that's what I predict? But all my paperwork would suggest 10% lower than what I say.

The guidelines specifically refer to the common occurrence of students improving at the end towards the exams. It implies you can allow for it, bit how to document that is difficult.

If you knew past students' exact percentage results then you could calculate an average increase for students from the mock based on past year groups. But we don't get that info unless a student views a paper and shares that with us.

Maybe something like assuming 45, 55, 65 etc for all past results based on grade bands, allowing that some will be higher and some lower, and calculate the average increase that way?

It's going to be very difficult to standardise all of this and stand over it if appealed.

byronbay2 · 12-05-2020 6:15pm

As a parent, through no fault of your own, the last few days of posts have been horrific to read. It is blatantly obvious a large proportion of students are going to miss out on their desired courses because of this. I really feel at this stage teachers should stand up and let Mr. McHugh and the unions know what you have been asked to do is grossly unfair on both yourselves and your students. Every single student is different in how they have and would approach exams and this is not being taken into account. A blanket 10% increase when in reality some students possibly could go up 2 grades and others down. It is pure madness what is being asked of you and unfortunately students future plans/careers will be over because of this.

I still cannot fathom how teachers are using mocks as data input to this when possibly 1000s of students cheated to get that result. This is CRAZY and I am getting more and more frustrated by the day. This whole process you have been asked to complete is simply not right and should not be allowed happen.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-05-2020 6:20pm

The problem is the legal threats and solicitors issuing dire warnings are only going to harm student results. Most teachers can see a student improving and aiming to peak for exams, even someone who is lazy or a last minute merchant, but who you know will pull it out of the bag. So many people claim they proved their teachers wrong by significantly outperforming school test results, but honestly it's very rarely a surprise and almost never the big "told you so" people weirdly think it is. But if evidence must be provided beyond just the professional judgement based on experience and a myriad of unrecorded daily interactions, then teachers will not be able to use their expertise to do students justice.

History Queen · 12-05-2020 6:21pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

As a parent, through no fault of your own, the last few days of posts have been horrific to read. It is blatantly obvious a large proportion of students are going to miss out on their desired courses because of this. I really feel at this stage teachers should stand up and let Mr. McHugh and the unions know what you have been asked to do is grossly unfair on both yourselves and your students. Every single student is different in how they have and would approach exams and this is not being taken account. A blanket 10% increase when in reality some students possibly could go up 2 grades and others down. It is pure madness what is being asked of you and unfortunately students future plans/careers will be over because of this.

I still cannot fathom how teachers are using mocks as data input to this when possibly 1000s of students cheated to get that result. This is CRAZY and I am getting more and more frustrated by the day. This is simply not right and should not be allowed happen.

We have expressed our opinions and raised our fears. Our unions aren't happy either. They weren't part of the decision making process they were informed just before the announcement (day before I believe but not certain) and told it was a case of no choice because of health advice. If they had objected can you imagine the media "unions want to endanger students" etc etc. Unions are furious about the way this has been handled and are now scrambling to do their best not only for members but for their students.

The poor attitude towards teachers in this country that has increased over the last few years means our expertise is often dismissed and diminished. Our voices drowned out. Because everyone went to school and thus think they know best.

alroley · 12-05-2020 6:21pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

As a parent, through no fault of your own, the last few days of posts have been horrific to read. It is blatantly obvious a large proportion of students are going to miss out on their desired courses because of this. I really feel at this stage teachers should stand up and let Mr. McHugh and the unions know what you have been asked to do is grossly unfair on both yourselves and your students. Every single student is different in how they have and would approach exams and this is not being taken into account. A blanket 10% increase when in reality some students possibly could go up 2 grades and others down. It is pure madness what is being asked of you and unfortunately students future plans/careers will be over because of this.

I still cannot fathom how teachers are using mocks as data input to this when possibly 1000s of students cheated to get that result. This is CRAZY and I am getting more and more frustrated by the day. This whole process you have been asked to complete is simply not right and should not be allowed happen.

But sure isn't it what 80% of students begged for? :rolleyes:

byronbay2 · 12-05-2020 6:30pm

alroley wrote: »

But sure isn't it what 80% of students begged for? :rolleyes:

No it wasn't 80% of students that begged for PG's - 20k out of 61k voted for it in an online poll that was completely open to abuse. Also a lot of the students that voted were wrongly made believe that if they weren't happy that they could sit an exam in August that would allow them entry to college in September, not a year later.

The rest kept their heads down and trusted the Taoiseach and Minister for Education when they said that the leaving cert would go ahead by hook or by crook. Mr. McHugh went on an Instagram Live and said predicted grades could not be considered because they were inherently unfair and that the LC was all about fairness and could not be used. Students took them at their word.

Is anyone really surprised that 20k of students opted for predicted grades! Some of these students are 17 and were just looking for a way out. That's why it is the Dept. of Education and Minister that needed to step up and make the right decisions for the right reasons.

alroley · 12-05-2020 7:02pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

No it wasn't 80% of students that begged for PG's - 20k out of 61k voted for it in an online poll that was completely open to abuse. Also a lot of the students that voted were wrongly made believe that if they weren't happy that they could sit an exam in August that would allow them entry to college in September, not a year later.

The rest kept their heads down and trusted the Taoiseach and Minister for Education when they said that the leaving cert would go ahead by hook or by crook. Mr. McHugh went on an Instagram Live and said predicted grades could not be considered because they were inherently unfair and that the LC was all about fairness and could not be used. Students took them at their word.

Is anyone really surprised that 20k of students opted for predicted grades! Some of these students are 17 and were just looking for a way out. That's why it is the Dept. of Education and Minister that needed to step up and make the right decisions for the right reasons.

I completely agree, but the only reason it has ended up this way is that the students were loud enough to get what they wanted. I saw nothing online or in the media from those that wanted to do exams.

rainbowtrout · 12-05-2020 7:05pm

byronbay2 wrote: »

I still cannot fathom how teachers are using mocks as data input to this when possibly 1000s of students cheated to get that result. This is CRAZY and I am getting more and more frustrated by the day. This whole process you have been asked to complete is simply not right and should not be allowed happen.

Some teachers set their own mocks. So for all intents and purposes it is no different to using the result of a Christmas or summer test.

Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Comments