Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

History Queen

AOR (labour) wanting health advice that Minister received that led to exams being cancelled to be published as he says opening of schools impossible in Sept if 18 year olds can't be safely accommodated to sit exams in July and August.

He's speaking very well and in my opinion wiping the decks with previous speakers. Slamming school league tables and the idea of standardisation process.

Not a Labour fan at all, but good work out of this TD.

byronbay2

History Queen wrote: »

The schools are just being opened for access if teachers need to do so.

My daughters Principal and Vice Principal had a zoom meeting with the whole year today. A bit of a pep talk really. Told them all they can come in from next Monday if they want to clean out lockers and to call into them for a chat if they needed (following social distancing guidelines etc). Tried to alleviate any fears and answered any questions. Told them every teacher knows that they would improve significantly from the mocks and this would be accounted for (hope that's the case). Not to worry if they missed class test/exams etc. Not sure was she in a position to say anything without guidelines but it was a nice thing to do!

jimmytwotimes 2013

byronbay2 wrote: »

My daughters Principal and Vice Principal had a zoom meeting with the whole year today. A bit of a pep talk really. Told them all they can come in from next Monday if they want to clean out lockers and to call into them for a chat if they needed (following social distancing guidelines etc). Tried to alleviate any fears and answered any questions. Told them every teacher knows that they would improve significantly from the mocks and this would be accounted for (hope that's the case). Not to worry if they missed class test/exams etc. Not sure was she in a position to say anything without guidelines but it was a nice thing to do!

Some students could drop a grade from mocks if cheating suspected, paper leaked, marked too easy etc

rainbowtrout

byronbay2 wrote: »

My daughters Principal and Vice Principal had a zoom meeting with the whole year today. A bit of a pep talk really. Told them all they can come in from next Monday if they want to clean out lockers and to call into them for a chat if they needed (following social distancing guidelines etc). Tried to alleviate any fears and answered any questions. Told them every teacher knows that they would improve significantly from the mocks and this would be accounted for (hope that's the case). Not to worry if they missed class test/exams etc. Not sure was she in a position to say anything without guidelines but it was a nice thing to do!

I think that's completely the wrong way to go about it. There's no guarantee that a student will improve significantly from the mocks, some do and some don't. The principal has basically told the students that they are guaranteed to have their grades bumped up from the mocks and they are in no such position to make that call. It's a legal case waiting to happen. Student gets H6 in mock, gets H6 as a predicted grade. 'But the principal told me the teachers would be giving me a significantly higher grade than the mocks, that the teachers all knew to do this'. Principal sounds like an idiot to be honest.

They are not supposed to be in schools next Monday, school are open for teachers only if they need to get stuff from the school for remote teaching.

No need for them to go in for a chat. The only thing they may need to discuss is if they are changing level from HL to OL, or OL to FL if the system allows that now.

km79

http://twitter.com/Jessjcasey/status/1260544942117715970

Includes sec presentation on the difficulties in running the exams

byronbay2

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Some students could drop a grade from mocks if cheating suspected, paper leaked, marked too easy etc

Could not agree more! A lot of student in my daughters year didn't even do the mocks as they were studying for the HPAT. So how they can be used for some and not for others and how you try and figure out if cheating took place or not is impossible. My view is they should not be used full stop. I do think though you have to give an improvement from March to June for most students. Hopefully guidelines will iron out all this!!!!

rainbowtrout

byronbay2 wrote: »

Could not agree more! A lot of student in my daughters year didn't even do the mocks as they were studying for the HPAT. So how they can be used for some and not for others and how you try and figure out if cheating took place or not is impossible. My view is they should not be used full stop. I do think though you have to give an improvement from March to June for most students. Hopefully guidelines will iron out all this!!!!

Why do you 'have' to? A lot of students improve. Some don't.

byronbay2

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think that's completely the wrong way to go about it. There's no guarantee that a student will improve significantly from the mocks, some do and some don't. The principal has basically told the students that they are guaranteed to have their grades bumped up from the mocks and they are in no such position to make that call. It's a legal case waiting to happen. Student gets H6 in mock, gets H6 as a predicted grade. 'But the principal told me the teachers would be giving me a significantly higher grade than the mocks, that the teachers all knew to do this'. Principal sounds like an idiot to be honest.

They are not supposed to be in schools next Monday, school are open for teachers only if they need to get stuff from the school for remote teaching.

No need for them to go in for a chat. The only thing they may need to discuss is if they are changing level from HL to OL, or OL to FL if the system allows that now.

Yes so now can you see why I am worried. This is who we have overseeing this whole process. Just more examples of how this process is a joke. No one has any clue what they should be doing.

km79

km79 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/Jessjcasey/status/1260544942117715970

Includes sec presentation on the difficulties in running the exams

“ May require staggered start times for exams – Absolute Silence”

No wonder they didn’t go ahead

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

They are not supposed to be in schools next Monday, school are open for teachers only if they need to get stuff from the school for remote teaching.

No need for them to go in for a chat. The only thing they may need to discuss is if they are changing level from HL to OL, or OL to FL if the system allows that now.

Agree, they shud be given separate days to collect material from school, on a day staff won't be in building.

I don't know if we can discuss levels with them. If I say to Student A that they might think of dropping to ordinary level cos they may not pass higher, I've just given an indication of the grade they might receive.

I left a comment for a couple of students, in their Easter reports, that they needed to start working or consider dropping level. I don't think I can advise anymore.

It's all clear as mud.

rainbowtrout

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Agree, they shud be given separate days to collect material from school, on a day staff won't be in building.

I don't know if we can discuss levels with them. If I say to Student A that they might think of dropping to ordinary level cos they may not pass higher, I've just given an indication of the grade they might receive.

I left a comment to a couple of students, in their Easter reports, that they needed to start working or consider dropping level.

It's all clear as mud.

No I wouldn't be discussing it, for those very reasons, but there is no reason that a standard form (from the DES) can't be provided to schools and for students to return it to confirm their levels on the basis that they can't move up a level only down.

Postgrad10

km79 wrote: »

In case they need to go in

No because they have been requested to come in.

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No I wouldn't be discussing it, for those very reasons, but there is no reason that a standard form (from the DES) can't be provided to schools and for students to return it to confirm their levels on the basis that they can't move up a level only down.

Think there will be an online portal facility for them to do this.

What if they fill in details without parent present?

I did all FL exams mom

km79

Postgrad10 wrote: »

No because they have been requested to come in.

They must have misinterpreted the letter surely

twomonkeys

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Think there will be an online portal facility for them to do this.

What if they fill in details without parent present?

I did all FL exams mom

They would have the choice to drop down at the last minute, even if the exams went ahead as normal. The student can choose while the papers are being handed out.......no mammy or daddy present there either? No difference.

jimmytwotimes 2013

twomonkeys wrote: »

They would have the choice to drop down at the last minute, even if the exams went ahead as normal. The student can choose while the papers are being handed out.......no mammy or daddy present there either? No difference.

True but the official form to be filled is to be verified by parents? On the day was always anomaly

rainbowtrout

Just listening to the news on the radio and Leo says "Opening schools and childcare facilities is one of the safest things we can do......"

So why the fcuk is the LC cancelled then????

History Queen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Just listening to the news on the radio and Leo says "Opening schools and childcare facilities is one of the safest things we can do......"

So why the fcuk is the LC cancelled then????

After seeing Joe McHugh's reaction when AOR asked him to publish and clarify the public health advice he received, that led to that decision, you'd really have to wonder what the hell is going on in the Dept of Education.

McHugh was backtracking and defensive and blustering as he tried to defend himself but didn't really answer O'Riordan's question.

Treppen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Some students could drop a grade from mocks if cheating suspected, paper leaked, marked too easy etc

You'd have to predict that they'd cheat in the LC too no?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Treppen wrote: »

You'd have to predict that they'd cheat in the LC too no?

Good question

Cheating tuffer cos paper not known.

Mocks easier to bring in pre-prepared answer and throw it on desk.

Some do get to look at notes for state exams during toilet breaks.

We had a number of mock exams cancelled for cheating and no doubt a few more got away with it

Add extra column to assessed grade document, Most Likely to Get Away with Cheating in Toilets

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

After seeing Joe McHugh's reaction when AOR asked him to publish and clarify the public health advice he received, that led to that decision, you'd really have to wonder what the hell is going on in the Dept of Education.

McHugh was backtracking and defensive and blustering as he tried to defend himself but didn't really answer O'Riordan's question.

I'm not one for wearing tinfoil hats, but I am beginning to wonder what exactly led to the decision to cancel the LC. Because Leo can't come out this week and say it's safe to attend school and last week the LC couldn't be held for health and safety reasons.

If Joe had sound medical advice, then he should just be able to read out that documentation from the NPHET. He should be able to answer the question.


Higher Level 2020:

State four reasons for cancelling the Leaving Cert. Give an explanation for each reason. Support your response with reference to the text. Develop your response with reference to the Government's Roadmap for Covid-19

History Queen

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm not one for wearing tinfoil hats, but I am beginning to wonder what exactly led to the decision to cancel the LC. Because Leo can't come out this week and say it's safe to attend school and last week the LC couldn't be held for health and safety reasons.

If Joe had sound medical advice, then he should just be able to read out that documentation from the NPHET. He should be able to answer the question.


Higher Level 2020:

State four reasons for cancelling the Leaving Cert. Give an explanation for each reason. Support your response with reference to the text. Develop your response with reference to the Government's Roadmap for Covid-19

I'm not of the tinfoil hat brigade either usually but I hate when I can't understand something. Ive been like a dog with a bone over this as I just cannot connect the dots on it. It seems so contradictory to be discussing schools opening while also cancelling state examinations and all the repercussions that go with them.

Edit: you should apply for a job withthe SEC setting papers! :-)

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

I'm not of the tinfoil hat brigade either usually but I hate when I can't understand something. Ive been like a dog with a bone over this as I just cannot connect the dots on it. It seems so contradictory to be discussing schools opening while also cancelling state examinations and all the repercussions that go with them.

Edit: you should apply for a job withthe SEC setting papers! :-)

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Politics and Society???

spurious

In the words of the Swedish philosophers, 'Money, Money, Money'.

Alqua

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Good question

Cheating tuffer cos paper not known.

Mocks easier to bring in pre-prepared answer and throw it on desk.

Some do get to look at notes for state exams during toilet breaks.

We had a number of mock exams cancelled for cheating and no doubt a few more got away with it

Add extra column to assessed grade document, Most Likely to Get Away with Cheating in Toilets

Someone was caught cheating when I did the LC. Thankfully I was up at the very front, oblivious to what was going on. So many people were gawking at the whole saga (as you would be), losing precious time in a time-tight exam!

man_no_plan

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I think completed projects are to be returned

I have heard that too but it's not written in any documents anywhere. Also I can't understand why they would ask teachers to mark some projects and not others.

So some subjects are 100% estimated others are 60% estimated. Then you take a teacher who marks them differently as they have never marked before. It would be another mess.

2011abc

Yes the medical person early on got it right , Omnishambles!

Millem

man_no_plan wrote: »

I have heard that too but it's not written in any documents anywhere. Also I can't understand why they would ask teachers to mark some projects and not others.

So some subjects are 100% estimated others are 60% estimated. Then you take a teacher who marks them differently as they have never marked before. It would be another mess.

The home ec journals have already been corrected by the SEC.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Millem wrote: »

The home ec journals have already been corrected by the SEC.

Do they have to be recorrected cos the SEC isn't getting involved in grading?

galaxual

I'm absolutely mortified reading this thread.
I am a student, and I thought the idea was that the teachers give a professional estimate of what they think that specific student would have gotten in the leaving cert. Not looking at their summer and Christmas tests and basing it all off of those?