Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

ethical

Realistically,all the data a teacher has on a student is Officially documented tests,5th Yr Christmas and Summer,6th Yr.Christmas and Mock.(although I d not consider the Mock seeing that most students had it before it was even published!).The stuff on VSWARE or what ever system your school uses would be deemed to be the only thing we can work on I think.
Otherwise we are breaking GDPR if we bring in the likes of class tests ,homework records etc for last year,(are we not supposed to have shredded all this "local" info at end of any particular year.)
Everyone ,every school must sing off the same Hymn sheet if this particular model is to be given a chance.
...and God forbid if there was a legal query on it,you could get done for having info you shouldnt have ....and if you have this info will Mr/Ms L.eagle not puncholes in it anyways!

paddybarry

km79 wrote: »

As part of the the original document we are told to compare with National averages over a three year period
I expect this information will be provided by school management when clear guidance emerges

For now i wish everyone would relax and stop coming up with systems of their own

We will all be setting our students off against each other soon enough sadly and I hope it’s a level playing field

I was just replying to a question asked.

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

Here is why the exams couldnt go ahead in July
SEC spelling out the reasons
Many of which were pointed out here as soon as the proposal was announced
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0511/1137612-leaving-cert/

I'm just reading this now. Maybe I'm taking it up wrong but ot soundslike the SEC didn't want responsibility for putting these procedures in place and overseeing them? (Not saying they aren't without legitimate basis and are indeed difficult, but how hard did they try to come up with solutions? ie. The need for extra invigilators, there was no national call for extra applications so they didn't try to overcome that issue.) Comes across very obstructionist. I'd imagine if the teachers unions raise these same concerns in September there'll be a chorus of opposition and derision against the lazy feckless teachers looking to get out of work.

km79

https://www.asti.ie/news/faqs-on-state-examinations-2020-and-continuity-of-teaching-l/

Updated

Prepare to be more confused
"The ASTI understands that each student may be marked out of 1000 available marks"
"The next step is an alignment process which is to ensure inter class equity prior to marks and rank orders being submitted to the Department of Education and Skills. "
So are we going to have to fight with our subject colleagues for class ranking or not? Still no idea. I hoped it was just like a SLAR where we sought guidance/reassurance from each other
And
Expect to be still working on them in June
"The ASTI has been informed that it is hoped that the final data sets will be submitted to the Department of Education and Skills by the Principal before the end of May 2020. This may prove to be an over ambitious target."
And
get ready for more work
"Online training will be provided regarding all aspects of the process."

Get a solicitor ready
"Students will be entitled to submit a data access request under Data Protection legislation. The school’s mark and ranking for the individual will be made available to those who request it"

No exams over the summer at least
"The Department of Education and Skills intends that the provisional results will issue in late August or early September and will be transmitted to the CAO system at that time."

km79

Judging by the differing "local arrangements" schools are employing for the remaining LC class time I am just thankful June and July are now back off the table
It is going to be a busy few weeks now "teaching " Leaving Certs who are not there anyway, teaching other classes, preparing exams, correcting exams, subject dept meetings, planning for next year, Croke Park evenings.......
And of course completing training for predictive grading, then doing it and then collaborating with colleagues on same.
A lot of goodwill being used up. Whatever remains of it

twomonkeys

paddybarry wrote: »

Just something I wanted to do myself. No class test, term exam or mock is a substitute for leaving cert. By looking at sec average, It gives me greater insight into how my students typically perform.

Working out averages for individual years is useful as I may feel that ability wise this year's class proximate 2018 or 2019 for example.

That in turns provides more guidance and justification for assigned grades.

I hope you’re one of my sons teachers. You seem well organised!!

jimmytwotimes 2013

twomonkeys wrote: »

I hope you’re one of my sons teachers. You seem well organised!!

No canvassing please

r93kaey5p2izun

For any group I taught in the past, a simple averaging of house exams and mocks would have seen almost all of them underachieving by at least one, if not two, grades. But a couple would be over marked.The best students often came into their own as time went on and they managed well with increasingly abstract problems. Their superior ability was really only clearly evident in later 6th Year work - it was clear to me usually, but their 5th Year results wouldn't clearly differentiate them. But those who were really not capable of Higher Maths, but who were good diligent students, would benefit from the inclusion of 5th Year work which would falsely inflate their grade. These students tended to work hard and do ok in the early stages of the course in 5th Year, but as the volume of content increased and the topics became more complex, they floundered. Averaging would bring up their grade.

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Judging by the differing "local arrangements" schools are employing for the remaining LC class time I am just thankful June and July are now back off the table
It is going to be a busy few weeks now "teaching " Leaving Certs who are not there anyway, teaching other classes, preparing exams, correcting exams, subject dept meetings, planning for next year, Croke Park evenings.......
And of course completing training for predictive grading, then doing it and then collaborating with colleagues on same.
A lot of goodwill being used up. Whatever remains of it

Croke Park evenings? Surely not.

MacGyver007

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Croke Park evenings? Surely not.

Yes indeed. We had one a couple of weeks ago. They haven't gone away

dory

Right now we're facing this scenario:

Mary and Louise both attend Chemistry classes after school. Mary also does it in her regular school and uses the class as a grind. For Louise it is her only class of Chemistry. The grind teacher has already contacted them saying their predicted grades are ready, get the school to contact them for transfer of same.

Supposedly the school has to take the mark for Louise, this her only Chemistry teacher. But what about Mary? She wants the grinds teacher's grade. He doesn't know what she got in xmas exams, only how she is in the grind and she figures the money she's paid should help. Can the school really accept Louise's result but not Mary's? Obviously Mary's mainstream teacher will be giving her a predicted grade. But it sounds like the school are open to a lawsuit to accept one grind teacher's result and not another's.

My own feeling is anyone who took a subject in a very informal capacity outside of school should have to do the actual sitting whenever this passes. We can't stand over results when they don't do exams in these grind classes (not all anyway).

rainbowtrout

dory wrote: »

Right now we're facing this scenario:

Mary and Louise both attend Chemistry classes after school. Mary also does it in her regular school and uses the class as a grind. For Louise it is her only class of Chemistry. The grind teacher has already contacted them saying their predicted grades are ready, get the school to contact them for transfer of same.

Supposedly the school has to take the mark for Louise, this her only Chemistry teacher. But what about Mary? She wants the grinds teacher's grade. He doesn't know what she got in xmas exams, only how she is in the grind and she figures the money she's paid should help. Can the school really accept Louise's result but not Mary's? Obviously Mary's mainstream teacher will be giving her a predicted grade. But it sounds like the school are open to a lawsuit to accept one grind teacher's result and not another's.

My own feeling is anyone who took a subject in a very informal capacity outside of school should have to do the actual sitting whenever this passes. We can't stand over results when they don't do exams in these grind classes (not all anyway).

I think it depends on the set up outside school. I have a lad taking an extra subject with me. He did a Christmas test, summer test and mock and has a project element which he has completed. He’s done all the stuff I would do with my regular class and I would stand over his grade.

km79

dory wrote: »

Right now we're facing this scenario:

Mary and Louise both attend Chemistry classes after school. Mary also does it in her regular school and uses the class as a grind. For Louise it is her only class of Chemistry. The grind teacher has already contacted them saying their predicted grades are ready, get the school to contact them for transfer of same.

Supposedly the school has to take the mark for Louise, this her only Chemistry teacher. But what about Mary? She wants the grinds teacher's grade. He doesn't know what she got in xmas exams, only how she is in the grind and she figures the money she's paid should help. Can the school really accept Louise's result but not Mary's? Obviously Mary's mainstream teacher will be giving her a predicted grade. But it sounds like the school are open to a lawsuit to accept one grind teacher's result and not another's.

My own feeling is anyone who took a subject in a very informal capacity outside of school should have to do the actual sitting whenever this passes. We can't stand over results when they don't do exams in these grind classes (not all anyway).

No teacher can have predicted grades ready as we have not received the finalised guidelines on how to do so.
This is all so loose. Teachers here , there and elsewhere devising their own systems for predicting grades

jimmytwotimes 2013

School A- continue teaching LCs

School B- stop teaching LCs

Some country to be fair

Mardy Bum

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

School A- continue teaching LCs

School B- stop teaching LCs

Some country to be fair

The DES is currently doing a dramatisation of The Thick of it and has been since March.

paddybarry

km79 wrote: »

No teacher can have predicted grades ready as we have not received the finalised guidelines on how to do so.
This is all so loose. Teachers here , there and elsewhere devising their own systems for predicting grades

6.1 of gov doc outlines how teacher comes up with pg.

r93kaey5p2izun

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The DES is currently doing a dramatisation of The Thick of it and has been since March.

That's an improvement so over what was on show in that cringeworthy documentary on Ruairi Quinn and his advisers from a few years ago.

mirrorwall14

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

School A- continue teaching LCs

School B- stop teaching LCs

Some country to be fair

I take it at least one other school has been told to continue teaching then? We are super confused. We aren't allowed give live classes or feedback or corrections (even auto correcting done via technology because it records the answers). whats the point in that?

rainbowtrout

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The DES is currently doing a dramatisation of The Thick of it and has been since March.

A complete omnishambles

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

School A- continue teaching LCs

School B- stop teaching LCs

Some country to be fair

ASTI members have just received a general email from K Chr"istie
This line jumped out at me
"Arising from this position, tuition for the Leaving Certificate classes of 2020 has ceased."

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

ASTI members have just received a general email from K Chr"istie
This line jumped out at me
"Arising from this position, tuition for the Leaving Certificate classes of 2020 has ceased."

TUI planning a statement in June

km79

paddybarry wrote: »

6.1 of gov doc outlines how teacher comes up with pg.

On what basis will teachers be making their decisions regarding the marking estimations of their students?

Detailed guidance on the operation of the process will issue shortly.

This has not issued yet. There are many clarifications needed

randylonghorn

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

TUI planning a statement in June

Which year?

Dylan94

km79 wrote: »

ASTI members have just received a general email from K Chr"istie
This line jumped out at me
"Arising from this position, tuition for the Leaving Certificate classes of 2020 has ceased."

Could you possibly post that email? I never received it.

paddybarry

km79 wrote: »

On what basis will teachers be making their decisions regarding the marking estimations of their students?

Detailed guidance on the operation of the process will issue shortly.

This has not issued yet. There are many clarifications needed

Where are you getting above? From asti q and a?

acequion

I didn't receive anything either.

km79

paddybarry wrote: »

Where are you getting above? From asti q and a?

Yes
Our principal also told us that the JMB have instructed them not to engage with teachers on the process until next week as the guidelines for teachers have not been agreed yet. There are clarifications and changes being sought by unions. The current guidelines are a draft and not final

km79

Dylan94 wrote: »

Could you possibly post that email? I never received it.

Dear ASTI member,

On Friday 8th May, the Minister for Education and Skills announced that his previous plan to hold the Leaving Certificate Examinations in late July/August could not now go ahead. This was because the health advice available from the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) was such that the plan to do so is no longer viable. Leaving Certificate 2020 is postponed until it is safe to hold the Examinations.

He further announced that his intention is to proceed with a calculated grades model of assessment for Leaving Certificate candidates.

The ASTI is advising members to engage with the Calculated Grades for Leaving Certificate Students 2020 process in order that students can progress to the next stage of their lives.

Arising from this position, tuition for the Leaving Certificate classes of 2020 has ceased.

Details regarding these decisions and frequently asked questions relating to the calculated grades model are published on the ASTI website at www.asti.ie.

There are many other queries that arise and for which ASTI is seeking clarification. The ASTI is engaging with the Department of Education and Skills and any such clarifications will be posted on our website as they come to hand.

Best regards,

Kieran Christie

Genera Secretary

11 May, 2020

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Dear ASTI member,

On Friday 8th May, the Minister for Education and Skills announced that his previous plan to hold the Leaving Certificate Examinations in late July/August could not now go ahead. This was because the health advice available from the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) was such that the plan to do so is no longer viable. Leaving Certificate 2020 is postponed until it is safe to hold the Examinations.

He further announced that his intention is to proceed with a calculated grades model of assessment for Leaving Certificate candidates.

The ASTI is advising members to engage with the Calculated Grades for Leaving Certificate Students 2020 process in order that students can progress to the next stage of their lives.

Arising from this position, tuition for the Leaving Certificate classes of 2020 has ceased.

Details regarding these decisions and frequently asked questions relating to the calculated grades model are published on the ASTI website at www.asti.ie.

There are many other queries that arise and for which ASTI is seeking clarification. The ASTI is engaging with the Department of Education and Skills and any such clarifications will be posted on our website as they come to hand.

Best regards,

Kieran Christie

Genera Secretary

11 May, 2020

ASTI can't even send an email to all its members.

km79

Mardy Bum wrote: »

ASTI can't even send an email to all its members.

Nobody else I know got it
I wonder is because i sent him that lengthy email directly a month ago?