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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #1502
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Could you please name another country that went into lockdown in March and still hasnt lifted any restrictions as of today?

    As you ll appreciate extending 2km to 5km can not be deemed "lifting restrictions". Although people seem to love to think so.

    I’ll go better than that. I’ll name a country that is not in a ‘lockdown’. Ireland.


  • #1503
    castletownman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar was on prime time not so long ago and when questioned regarding the nursing homes he threw Dr Holohan under the bus.

    It’s a pass the responsibility to someone else in the hope that nobody will have to responsible or accountable for anything

    And the irony is, Simon Harris was thrown under the bus and regarded as the figurehead for the CervicalCheck scandal by an outraged public, when in reality Dr.Holohan didn't want him to conduct an external review precisely to safe his own arse.

    And now, Holohan is close to getting a statue made of himself.


  • #1504
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Stheno wrote: »
    End to end is still an average of 9 days for test, results and contact tracing, five days for test results (and that's a median and includes hospital lab results which are virtually same day) and four on average for contact tracing.
    Sure, but it improving all the time. If it was taking nine days to complete the process end to end in March, we'd have been amazed. At that point it was taking more than nine days just to get a bloody result back.

    My point is that there's no "scandal" here. There will be questions to be asked about why it took so long to ramp up when South Korea were apparently on top of this inside two weeks.
    But we already kind of know the answer - S.K. were coming from a much higher base, with better healthcare facilities, better procedures and more health funding.
    We had to start from a low base where so much of our testing capacity was outsourced and our healthcare provision in disarray. The turnaround has been fairly remarkable, but the time it's taken is a black mark on the mismanagement of health for decades up to now.


  • #1505
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Dont be nervous and dont be worried or scared.

    It absolutely assuages any fears I might have had that a complete nobody on the internet assures me things will be just fine.

    Thank you so much.


  • #1506
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar was on prime time not so long ago and when questioned regarding the nursing homes he threw Dr Holohan under the bus.

    It’s a pass the responsibility to someone else in the hope that nobody will have to responsible or accountable for anything
    Nursing homes are an issue worldwide. Very hard to keep it out of there and just as hard to make sure that they are all doing what they should be doing to support that. There are regular issues in that sector in normal times, with overall standards and staffing levels.


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  • #1507
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Could you please name another country that went into lockdown in March and still hasnt lifted any restrictions as of today?

    As you ll appreciate extending 2km to 5km can not be deemed "lifting restrictions". Although people seem to love to think so.

    Madrid and Barcelona are still in lockdown - a far tougher lockdown than we ever faced


  • #1508
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is so different to what anyone in the EU did with the exception of Sweden?

    It’s the passing of responsibility for decisions I’m in about not what was or wasn’t done.

    Leo is the leader of the country and should be strong enough to make decisions and standby them whatever they may be whether over or under cautious and not hide behind the I was advised excuse.


  • #1509
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    It’s the passing of responsibility for decisions I’m in about not what was or wasn’t done.

    Leo is the leader of the country and should be strong enough to make decisions and standby them whatever they may be whether over or under cautious and not hide behind the I was advised excuse.
    He has a different perspective being a doctor and caution would be the default position. He also understands the advice.


  • #1510
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    It’s the passing of responsibility for decisions I’m in about not what was or wasn’t done.

    Leo is the leader of the country and should be strong enough to make decisions and standby them whatever they may be whether over or under cautious and not hide behind the I was advised excuse.

    Not wanting to defend, as there are lots of things I both think should have been done better and should still be done better including a quicker and more detailed relaxation, where have anyone in Government said they are not responsible?


  • #1511
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not wanting to defend, as there are lots of things I both think should have been done better and should still be done better including a quicker and more detailed relaxation, where have anyone in Government said they are not responsible?



    Not disregarding your opinion but in general and not just during this crisis

    Government and politicians in general are only responsible when things happen with a good outcome. It’s never their fault if there’s someone to be held accountable.


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  • #1512
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Pitch n Putt wrote: »
    [/B]


    Not disregarding your opinion but in general and not just during this crisis

    Government and politicians in general are only responsible when things happen with a good outcome. It’s never their fault if there’s someone to be held accountable.
    Accountable really gets bandied about a lot, usually as method to show contempt for selected entities. What's your version of it?


  • #1513
    Pitch n Putt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Pitch n Putt


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Accountable really gets bandied about a lot, usually as method to show contempt for selected entities. What's your version of it?

    Decisions don’t make themselves so someone has to take responsibility/owenership /accountability/ blame whatever you want to call it.

    Anyway we’re heading off on a different tangent here and best get back on topic.


  • #1514
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Madrid and Barcelona are still in lockdown - a far tougher lockdown than we ever faced

    Those arent countries I am afraid.

    I appreciate the response though, thats what we should do in Ireland and lockdown only certain big cities/affected regions rather than shutting down Kerry etc where there might not even be 1 active case.


  • #1515
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    It absolutely assuages any fears I might have had that a complete nobody on the internet assures me things will be just fine.

    Thank you so much.

    You are welcome. Remember to stay positive. All bad things are temporary

    "CZECH REPUBLIC RELAXES MASK-WEARING RULES

    The Czech government announced that as of May 25 people will no longer be required to wear face masks outdoors as long as they maintain a distance of two meters from others."

    I do have to note I heard Tony H doesnt believe we need to make masks mandatory. One of those rare ones where Tony speaks a lot of concrete sense.


  • #1516
    lord quackinton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 352 ✭✭lord quackinton


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He has a different perspective being a doctor and caution would be the default position. He also understands the advice.


    my take is different



    tony holohan CMO of the HSE
    simon harris - current minister for health
    leo vardakar - former minister for health


    the government lock down policy is so the health system does not collapse.
    our hospitals and state nursing homes are so poorly run and funded we are told we could not have done the Swedish way.
    i think the 3 names above are covering their own asses


  • #1517
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    .......
    Our friend Tony wont be making face masks mandatory in public.

    On Ryanair flights masks + temperature checks before boarding will be necessary.

    Some crazy survey from GAA club member association says players dont want to return to action until a vaccine is found.
    Ryanair are a private company, they can change the T&Cs of carriage easily. No one is being forced to travel with Ryanair.

    What's wrong with GAA wanting to wait?
    Are you disparaging peoples opinions?


  • #1518
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Tenger wrote: »
    Ryanair are a private company, they can change the T&Cs of carriage easily. No one is being forced to travel with Ryanair.

    What's wrong with GAA wanting to wait?
    Are you disparaging peoples opinions?

    Not at all.

    I just find it odd that GAA players are wiling to wait for 3- 5 years before playing as vaccines need to be tested etc over some period of time. Assuming such vaccine will be developed in the first place (no human coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed in the past)

    You are correct about Ryanair, doesnt seem like mask will be "mandatory"

    RYANAIR RECOMMENDS WEARING FACE MASKS ON PLANES

    Irish budget airline Ryanair is to recommend that all passengers wear face masks on board when it reopens 40 percent of its route network on July 1, the company announced today, according to Reuters.


  • #1519
    VillageIdiot71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Not at all.

    I just find it odd that GAA players are wiling to wait for 3- 5 years before playing as vaccines need to be tested etc over some period of time. Assuming such vaccine will be developed in the first place (no human coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed in the past)

    You are correct about Ryanair, doesnt seem like mask will be "mandatory"

    RYANAIR RECOMMENDS WEARING FACE MASKS ON PLANES

    Irish budget airline Ryanair is to recommend that all passengers wear face masks on board when it reopens 40 percent of its route network on July 1, the company announced today, according to Reuters.
    Won't all this stuff need to settle down.

    When childcare reopens, they won't be able too use PPE or maintain social distance, unless we're not finished messing with the psyche of the current cohort of tweenies. And we won't be able to close a place every time a child has a temperature and a cough, and isolate all the families linked to it.

    Public transport can't work with social distance. It just requires people to crowd in. Ditto, planes with empty seats.

    And the economy can't be stopped forever. Add up the three, and that's where we have to go.


  • #1520
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Not at all.

    I just find it odd that GAA players are wiling to wait for 3- 5 years before playing as vaccines need to be tested etc over some period of time. Assuming such vaccine will be developed in the first place (no human coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed in the past)

    You are correct about Ryanair, doesnt seem like mask will be "mandatory"

    RYANAIR RECOMMENDS WEARING FACE MASKS ON PLANES

    Irish budget airline Ryanair is to recommend that all passengers wear face masks on board when it reopens 40 percent of its route network on July 1, the company announced today, according to Reuters.

    No human coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed and the bovine coronavirus vaccine is a weakened live virus vaccine which is unsuitable for those most likely to get severe coronavirus symptoms such as having weak immune systems.

    Gaelic footballers should be fine if they contract covid 19 as they are young and fit, but obviously its friends and family with underlying conditions they need to fear spreading it to.

    And what's the point of sport without spectators you'd wonder. At this stage spectator sport is a luxury and will probably reopen last if at all.


  • #1521
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    I just find it odd that GAA players are wiling to wait for 3- 5 years before playing as vaccines need to be tested etc over some period of time. Assuming such vaccine will be developed in the first place (no human coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed in the past)
    You need a disclaimer on your posts that you are an anti-vaxxer.

    We haven't needed a coronavirus vaccine before. Several were in development for SARS and MERS, and funding dried up because they were no longer needed. The Oxford vaccine which is probably leading the race in human trials is a repurposed MERS vaccine, they just had to switch the target to Covid.

    We'll know if one of the many vaccines work within the next few months, and if it does it should be available within 18 months all going well. I can see why people may make the decision to hold off on resuming optional risky activities (e.g. sports) while we wait to see if a vaccine is on the horizon, or if this is something we need to live with long term.


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  • #1522
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    VillageIdiot71 wrote: »
    Won't all this stuff need to settle down.

    When childcare reopens, they won't be able too use PPE or maintain social distance, unless we're not finished messing with the psyche of the current cohort of tweenies. And we won't be able to close a place every time a child has a temperature and a cough, and isolate all the families linked to it.

    Public transport can't work with social distance. It just requires people to crowd in. Ditto, planes with empty seats.

    And the economy can't be stopped forever. Add up the three, and that's where we have to go.

    Air travel is likely to be more expensive for next five years. That's expected. Public transport might increase number of runs per day to allow for a limited capacity. While when the times, I'm likely to be working in office fifty fifty. I have preexisting medical conditions so I'll cycle to work over public transport tbh. Our idea of normal is likely to drastically change for next few years and not limited to Ireland.


  • #1523
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    seamus wrote: »
    Turnaround times are being addressed. They're down to 2-4 days. Still 36 hours too slow, but a lot better than a month ago. And they're improving all the time.

    I'm not sure what nursing home scandal you're referring to. If you're talking about the claim that covid-positive people were transferred to uninfected nursing homes, then that has been debunked.

    This is just parroting HSE propaganda.

    In reality there is wide divergence in turn arounds from 2 days up to 7 days at a minimum.

    What has not been debunked is lack of PPE in nursing homes, the little help the HSE gave with staffing and the poaching of staff by the HSE from nursing homes before the supposed surge. Whistleblowers and Nursing home owners have pointed out these issues.


  • #1524
    Clonmel1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,047 ✭✭✭Clonmel1000


    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/enough-is-enough-we-must-get-people-back-to-work-to-end-economic-genocide-39198882.html


  • #1525
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    hmmm wrote: »
    You need a disclaimer on your posts that you are an anti-vaxxer.

    We haven't needed a coronavirus vaccine before. Several were in development for SARS and MERS, and funding dried up because they were no longer needed. The Oxford vaccine which is probably leading the race in human trials is a repurposed MERS vaccine, they just had to switch the target to Covid.

    We'll know if one of the many vaccines work within the next few months, and if it does it should be available within 18 months all going well. I can see why people may make the decision to hold off on resuming optional risky activities (e.g. sports) while we wait to see if a vaccine is on the horizon, or if this is something we need to live with long term.

    Where did you get this from?

    Do you understand the difference between someone opposed to a rushed and relatively untested vaccine and one that has been tested and shown to work and be safe?


  • #1526
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    hmmm wrote: »
    You need a disclaimer on your posts that you are an anti-vaxxer.

    We haven't needed a coronavirus vaccine before. Several were in development for SARS and MERS, and funding dried up because they were no longer needed. The Oxford vaccine which is probably leading the race in human trials is a repurposed MERS vaccine, they just had to switch the target to Covid.

    We'll know if one of the many vaccines work within the next few months, and if it does it should be available within 18 months all going well. I can see why people may make the decision to hold off on resuming optional risky activities (e.g. sports) while we wait to see if a vaccine is on the horizon, or if this is something we need to live with long term.

    I love these attacks on me once in a while. Anti-vaxxer etc.

    Harsh. But I am ok as I know pro economic brigade got my back.

    I agree, GAA players are in a predicament, they dont really get paid that much, so they have very little incentive to accept additional covid risk if they live with people who are at risk groups.

    I think what will happen is mass testing will be rolled out, the sort of testing that gives you results in a matter of hours and then they ll proceed to play if they test negative. (sometime towards end of this year)


  • #1527
    Naos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Naos


    Clonmel1000 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/enough-is-enough-we-must-get-people-back-to-work-to-end-economic-genocide-39198882.html

    Imagine being Irish living in the Czech Republic going through all of this and then you hear the pubs are open.

    You rush down, excited, eagerly anticipating your first fresh pint in months and then.. you get served that.


  • #1528
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2020/0512/1137905-galway/


  • #1529
    Cal4567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He has a different perspective being a doctor and caution would be the default position. He also understands the advice.

    If I am really honest, I haven't ever taken to Varadkar but yes, the fact he is a doctor and understands the medical issues gives me confidence compared to having a billionaire leader whose motives are as much around their loss of personal income as it is the health and wellbeing of their citizens.


  • #1530
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Clonmel1000 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/enough-is-enough-we-must-get-people-back-to-work-to-end-economic-genocide-39198882.html

    I like this. This is the sort of thing 80% of posters in this thread would be thinking to themselves today

    "But the time has surely come to say enough is enough. We need to get the country back off its knees and back to work, to socialise, to communicate like normal people and, essentially, to get back to living."


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  • #1531
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PowerToWait wrote: »
    It absolutely assuages any fears I might have had that a complete nobody on the internet assures me things will be just fine.

    Thank you so much.

    There are some people who will never accept it is safe to be in a crowded room again, even if a vaccine is rolled out some time in the next 18 months. Some will always feel under personal threat if they are within 2 metres of another human being.

    Whatever about covid19 and the economic recession, both of which will pass, Social-Distancing-Anxiety as a psychological condition is here to stay.


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