Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

10-05-2020 11:32PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

This is great news. At least now I can find a use for that Aer Lingus voucher soon!

But you’d have to self quarantine on the way back, assuming that Leo does make that enforceable

The UK and France have this evening come to a mutual no-quarantine arrangement. Probably the first step in an EU wide travel zone

JoChervil · 10-05-2020 11:32PM

speckle wrote: »

Why is Greece at the top? I thought they were doing good with Covid cases? I can understand why Italy etc near the top. And why is it not effecting Polands economy so much?

Greece is a travel destination especially in colder months. With travel ban all over Europe, I don't think many people would risk going anywhere.

You can't trust Polish figures. Today was to be a presidential election, with current government hoping to win, so they had to show better results. They even wanted to force people to take part in it. They abandoned this idea only 2 days ago.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-05-2020 11:32PM

speckle wrote: »

Why is Greece at the top?

Not sure but looks like a new sovereign debt crisis may be on the horizon with Italy, Spain and Greece again on the front line.

Stheno · 10-05-2020 11:35PM

I was reading an article from linked on another thread which was discussing the fact that after doing post mortims on 50 victims of Covid in northern Italy, doctors identified that pulmonary embolism was a key issue in cause of death and that Covid 19 was more a cardiac disease, which then indicated that treatment via ventilator would not help and other treatments were indicated.

Were there any "proper" medical articles published on this does anyone know?

s1ippy · 10-05-2020 11:35PM

It would be worth doing a survey of the whole population to see how many people have experienced symptoms, how many people consulted their doctor and how many people actually got tested.

Seeing as we've done 230k tests and had 23k confirmed cases there is about a 1 in 10 chance of confirmation with current testing criteria. Many of those being tested work or live in environments where they are most at risk of contact. This means that the data we have about community transmission is still absolutely terrible.

We can't even begin to consider easing restrictions with such a limited picture of the distribution of the spread of the virus in the wider society. How could/can we detect clusters of outbreak when the testing and tracking parameters are so narrow? I'd genuinely like it explained to me by the people who want to *flood the cities in their droves and mingle.

*I'm only slightly exaggerating. I know they don't just want to go to the pub, as they've said repeatedly. Going out for the day clothes shopping is, to my mind, as unnecessary as the pub in this particular situation.

stephenjmcd · 10-05-2020 11:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But you’d have to self quarantine on the way back, assuming that Leo does make that enforceable

The UK and France have this evening come to a mutual no-quarantine arrangement. Probably the first step in an EU wide travel zone

Well if you were the French you'd have expected it seeing as they wont be putting uk citizens into quarantine. Based on reports it sounds more like France threatened the UK with similar measures for its citizens coming into France and hence this agreement. Not the first time the UK backed down in the last few months after pressure from France.

Any EU wide agreement will have to come from the EU themselves, I'd expect free travel within the EU for EU passport holders as we've always had but some restrictions on non eu passport holders

Renjit · 10-05-2020 11:53PM

Loozer wrote: »

Except it's not

Social distancing is

It is in addition to social distancing. It is for situations where you cannot avoid social distancing. It is when you may touch your mouth inadvertently. It is when you are infected/asymptomatic.

wakka12 · 10-05-2020 11:56PM

More deaths in South America than Europe today. Things looking up here but looking bad there

bekker · 10-05-2020 11:58PM

lbj666 wrote: »

Anything from a temperature to the worst possible dose of the flu you've ever had but doesn't still warrant going to hospital

But 1-2% of flu infections result in hospitalization. US CDC

JoChervil · 11-05-2020 12:02AM

wakka12 wrote: »

More deaths in South America than Europe today. Things looking up here but looking bad there

It is like November there, so there is a chance it might be seasonal

kilkenny31 · 11-05-2020 12:03AM

Has Michael Levvitt's comments reported in the Irish Indo been discussed here? He suggests that Covod-19 is naturally going to burn itself out in Ireland in the next few weeks resulting in a sppeding up of the lifting of restrictions. He has also suggested previously that Sweden will show in a few weeks that they have achieved some form of herd immunity. He suspects that virus naturally flattens its own curve becuse it infects so many without symptoms.

BorneTobyWilde · 11-05-2020 12:04AM

Plumbthedepths · 11-05-2020 12:05AM

s1ippy wrote: »

Exactly, the whole idea of making masks mandatory is that if everyone is wearing them, the risk for those who can't is reduced enormously.

Shaming people for wearing masks when there's an airborne virus, what a total utter genius.

Prehaps you could share your findings with WHO, they seem to be of the impression it's NOT airborne.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-coronavirus-airborne

omerin · 11-05-2020 12:07AM

The man who is a heartbeat away from leading the US is self isolating, if it hits the main man, it may not be a beautiful situation for him.

The UK is going to be fooked, no leadership from the man who spouts gibberish. He had a simple task with plenty of time to prepare - provide a clear, consistant plan and he made a balls of it.

I struggle to remember a time when there was such poor leadership in so many countries, at a time when a consistant, collaborative effort was needed most.

A lot of UK commentators are saying they are past the peak as if something like this only has one, the media are failing miserably there, but not much better here

Renjit · 11-05-2020 12:08AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Prehaps you could share your findings with WHO, they seem to be of the impression it's NOT airborne.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-coronavirus-airborne

The simple advantage is that you wouldn't touch your bare mouth while wearing mask even if the virus is not airborne. It is simply a better mode of protection.

If you are asymptomatic then it is even better.

JoChervil · 11-05-2020 12:09AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Shaming people for wearing masks when there's an airborne virus, what a total utter genius.

The WHO doesn't believe it's airborne but research is ongoing. Prehaps you'll share your research with them?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...virus-airborne

It's not airborne, but it is in droplets, so masks can stop droplets

11-05-2020 12:09AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Any EU wide agreement will have to come from the EU themselves, I'd expect free travel within the EU for EU passport holders as we've always had but some restrictions on non eu passport holders

Leo alluded to this in his interview with Pat Kenny on Friday. Suggested that EU talks were underway re. a common arrivals protocol. Which I assume would take the form of quarantine at the point of entry into the EU/UK/EEA but free movement thereafter

Plumbthedepths · 11-05-2020 12:11AM

Renjit wrote: »

The simple advantage is that you wouldn't touch your bare mouth while wearing mask even if the virus is not airborne. It is simply a better mode of protection.

If you are asymptomatic then it is even better.

I have no issue with masks, I have already given my reasons why I think they make sense further back the thread.
My response was to a nonsense claim that the virus is airborne, despite no organisation including WHO stating it is. Why do people make up stuff?

khalessi · 11-05-2020 12:11AM

JoChervil wrote: »

It's not airborne, but it is in droplets, so masks can stop droplets

Also need to wear eye protection as the eyes have recently been discovered to be a point of entry

Stheno · 11-05-2020 12:12AM

bekker wrote: »

But 1-2% of flu infections result in hospitalization. US CDC

For COVID that figure is closer to 20%

Plumbthedepths · 11-05-2020 12:13AM

JoChervil wrote: »

It's not airborne, but it is in droplets, so masks can stop droplets

I know it's not airborne the person I responded to claimed it is.
It depends on the mask.

Plumbthedepths · 11-05-2020 12:14AM

khalessi wrote: »

Also need to wear eye protection as the eyes have recently been discovered to be a point of entry

Don't forget earmuffs, the ears are a point of entry.

JoChervil · 11-05-2020 12:15AM

khalessi wrote: »

Also need to wear eye protection as the eyes have recently been discovered to be a point of entry

It's known for quite a while. So wear glasses. Even sun glasses can protect you partially, which is better than no protection.

khalessi · 11-05-2020 12:15AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Don't forget earmuffs, the ears are a point of entry.

Well if you insist, any colour preferences?

bekker · 11-05-2020 12:17AM

Stheno wrote: »

I was reading an article from linked on another thread which was discussing the fact that after doing post mortims on 50 victims of Covid in northern Italy, doctors identified that pulmonary embolism was a key issue in cause of death and that Covid 19 was more a cardiac disease, which then indicated that treatment via ventilator would not help and other treatments were indicated.

Were there any "proper" medical articles published on this does anyone know?

If by 'proper' you mean peer-reviewed, NAFAIK, I believe it will be quite a while before there are any COVID-19 based, best that can be hoped for at present is weight of dissenting voices.

There are quite a few unanticipated effects with COVID-19 being reported across the world, cardiac micro-embolisms being one of the more widely reported from Italy, US etc. but whether it's a direct COVID-19 effect or a by-product of COVID-19 reactions seems to be an open question.

gmisk · 11-05-2020 12:18AM

Stheno wrote: »

For COVID that figure is closer to 20%

That can't be right?
If that was true surely our hospitals would be totally overwhelmed?
The figure I can find is 1/5 of over 80s only.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196573/covid-19-one-five-over-80s-need-hospitalisation/
So it is likely a lot lower with younger people

Btw I totally understand it's a lot more dangerous than the flu.

Stheno · 11-05-2020 12:19AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Don't forget earmuffs, the ears are a point of entry.

When did that come out?

khalessi · 11-05-2020 12:20AM

Stheno wrote: »

When did that come out?

he is taking the proverbial

speckle · 11-05-2020 12:21AM

Stheno wrote: »

I was reading an article from linked on another thread which was discussing the fact that after doing post mortims on 50 victims of Covid in northern Italy, doctors identified that pulmonary embolism was a key issue in cause of death and that Covid 19 was more a cardiac disease, which then indicated that treatment via ventilator would not help and other treatments were indicated.

Were there any "proper" medical articles published on this does anyone know?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20054262v1
possibly this one on post mortems?

Renjit · 11-05-2020 12:21AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I have no issue with masks, I have already given my reasons why I think they make sense further back the thread.
My response was to a nonsense claim that the virus is airborne, despite no organisation including WHO stating it is. Why do people make up stuff?

I wouldn't count more on what WHO says.
https://globalvoices.org/2020/03/01/world-health-organization-officials-criticized-for-slow-response-and-pro-china-bias-as-covid-19-spreads-across-the-world/

Better be prepared.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/06/coronavirus-and-airborne-transmission-scientists-warn-australia-to-be-on-guard

Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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