Masks

Wibbs · 09-05-2020 12:20PM

Yes: other

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Outside Lidl waiting in the weekly shop queue. 1 in 10 tops with masks. Pure insanity.

Not really C. The public have been told that they're of no value outside of hospitals or if you're already sick and have very much resisted changing that viewpoint, so not a shock that most people are hearing this and believing it and not wearing masks. For fun see how many are wearing gloves. I noted more gloves on show than masks. The public have been told that gloves are a bad plan(and they are), but there would be far less cultural resistance to wearing them so more appear to be doing so.

Mike3287 · 09-05-2020 12:24PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really C. The public have been told that they're of no value outside of hospitals or if you're already sick and have very much resisted changing that viewpoint, so not a shock that most people are hearing this and believing it and not wearing masks. For fun see how many are wearing gloves. I noted more gloves on show than masks. The public have been told that gloves are a bad plan(and they are), but there would be far less cultural resistance to wearing them so more appear to be doing so.

Anyone wearing gloves instant idiot

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 12:25PM

Yes: valved

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really C. The public have been told that they're of no value outside of hospitals or if you're already sick and have very much resisted changing that viewpoint, so not a shock that most people are hearing this and believing it and not wearing masks. For fun see how many are wearing gloves. I noted more gloves on show than masks. The public have been told that gloves are a bad plan(and they are), but there would be far less cultural resistance to wearing them so more appear to be doing so.

I mentioned this last week that's there more gloves than masks... For a disease that is spread through respiratory droplets. I just don't understand it. Just wash/sanitize hands and don't touch your face. And for respiratory droplets, a mask would probably help.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 12:29PM

Yes: surgical

Mike3287 wrote: »

Anyone wearing gloves instant idiot

Gloves are handy, once you know how to take them off properly after use. I have cuts on my hands so I wear gloves and disinfect bank card after same as if I wasnt wearing gloves. Im used to wearing med gloves and dont touch my face but that is a habit anyone can get into.

Mike3287 · 09-05-2020 12:36PM

khalessi wrote: »

Gloves are handy, once you know how to take them off properly after use. I have cuts on my hands so I wear gloves and disinfect bank card after same as if I wasnt wearing gloves. Im used to wearing med gloves and dont touch my face but that is a habit anyone can get into.

True

I havent seen anyone with gloves, mask, eyewear on

Always just gloves

Which is idiotic

khalessi · 09-05-2020 12:37PM

Yes: surgical

Mike3287 wrote: »

True

I havent seen anyone with gloves, mask, eyewear on

Always just gloves

Which is idiotic

If you do it is probably me lol:D

Mike3287 · 09-05-2020 12:39PM

khalessi wrote: »

If you do it is probably me lol:D

Dead on

People like you with a brain are rare

Kivaro · 09-05-2020 12:39PM

Yes: valved

Anyone want to guess who tested positive for Covid-19 yesterday in this picture? Hint: She works in the White House:

But yeah, we're told the jury is out on masks .......

If we are serious about getting out of this pandemic crisis in Ireland and get back to a new semblance of normality, then we need to start wearing masks.
And it needs to be seriously (not halfheartedly) encouraged by the Irish government and HSE.

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 12:43PM

Yes: valved

Here's another interesting study on masks
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4293989/

Pharmaceutical and nonpharmaceutical measures against respiratory infections are available. Pharmaceuticals such as vaccines and antiviral medications are highly effective in eradicating respiratory infections, as evidenced in the case of smallpox. However, as vaccines and antiviral medications take time to develop and are limited in supply, they are unable to sufficiently contain an outbreak caused by new pathogens, especially in the early stages of the outbreak.(8-10) Nonpharmaceutical interventions, on the other hand, are not only able to aid in the control of the early stages of a new outbreak, but are also useful in everyday disease prevention in the general population.(8,10) Measures such as frequent handwashing have been proven to be effective in preventing the transmission of viral infections (odds ratio [OR] 0.45).(11-13) Nonpharmaceutical interventions are a cheap and noninvasive method to reduce mortality and morbidity from respiratory infections.

Aside from handwashing, the use of facemasks is also valuable in infectious disease control, especially in circumventing droplet transmission.(14,15) For example, the effectiveness of surgical masks and N95 masks in blocking the transmission of SARS are 68% and 91%, respectively.(7) Facemasks, when fitted properly, effectively disrupt the forward momentum of particles expelled from a cough or sneeze, preventing disease transmission. Even if the facemasks are ill-fitting, they are still able to interrupt the particles and airborne viruses sufficiently, such that these pathogens do not reach the breathing zones of people nearby.

Considering we don't have a vaccine, hand washing and face masks are the answer. Even if face masks are fitted wrong, it can still catch aerosols so that people nearby don't breathe them.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 12:44PM

Yes: surgical

It is all to do with lack of availability as we know. Im waiting for the guidelines on face covers

otnomart · 09-05-2020 12:55PM

otnomart wrote: »

Bought my first two surgical masks last Saturday.
Out food shopping today, so wore it for the first time.
Followed a tip of giving a shape to the nose when I put it on, so it was not too unconfortable.
Was out for no more than 30 mins overall, so when I got home, removed gloves, washed hands, removed the mask and placed it in a open ziploc bag. Washed hands again.
All these new routine steps feel like a dystopian movie, anyway whatever stops catching it and spreading it, must be worth it.

One month on.
Been wearing a surgical mask when going to the shops (working from home and have not taken public transport since the start of lockdown) and got totally used to it, almost second nature putting it on before heading out (still sad to think about it, though).
I always respect the distances.

Masks, distancing and hands hygiene is what we can do for now, until they have rolled out a vaccine.

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 12:56PM

Yes: valved

Considering that this is a disease that is still baffling doctors and scientists, shouldn't we all have masks/face coverings. To at least slow down the spread.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 12:57PM

Yes: surgical

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Considering that this is a disease that is still baffling doctors and scientists, shouldn't we all have masks/face coverings. To at least slow down the spread.

I agree, it seems that weekly they learn something new about it.

owlbethere · 09-05-2020 01:05PM

khalessi wrote: »

It is all to do with lack of availability as we know. Im waiting for the guidelines on face covers

I was thinking about this.

Surgical masks are in limited supply and they for the healthcare workers.

I would like to think a lot of younger people would be able to adapt to wearing facing coverings/fabric/cloth face masks because of the benefits and knowledge of Internet usage. People can either check online to make thier masks or buy fabric masks online.

I think the older generation might be disadvantaged because a sizable portion of them wouldn't have the means to check online. Especially those who live alone or don't have anyone to help them with the Internet. So like bachelors for example. So public transport/shops won't be able to supply disposable masks for customers to use going in.

Arrival · 09-05-2020 01:24PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think they really want herd immunity. They only shut things to make it look like they were doing something. Invite all the travellers in and spread infection with no quarantine.

And our prime minister a doctor.

They really should tell us this if it's the case, it's ****ing ridiculous if they're leaning towards that and not coming out to actually tell the people in the country they're running, it's really important

khalessi · 09-05-2020 01:27PM

Yes: surgical

The gas thing is, there is no proof yet people become immune after getting it and wont get it again. Could herd immunity be playing with fire?

Arrival · 09-05-2020 01:29PM

khalessi wrote: »

Seriously!!! I havent nursed in years but still keep myself up to date, as he more than likely has, and I am out of the game longer than him. It stand to him as he understands immediately what is being discussed without needing med jargon changed, it help for decision making etc especially in a pandemic. He has made mistakes but has also made good decisions too.

Which are?

khalessi · 09-05-2020 01:31PM

Yes: surgical

Arrival wrote: »

Which are?

I am not getting into a debate over this, if you cant spot them fair enough it is ok to disagree.

Arrival · 09-05-2020 01:32PM

khalessi wrote: »

The gas thing is, there is no proof yet people become immune after getting it and wont get it again. Could herd immunity be playing with fire?

Absolutely. We have people going nuts over possibly implementing mandatory mask wearing specifically because they say there's a lack of evidence so it'll be interesting to see the general take on approaching herd immunity, which would be much more important to have evidence on.

This virus has already mutated at least once as well, something which doesn't exactly help with herd immunity and vaccines

ChelseaRentBoy · 09-05-2020 01:42PM

Yes: surgical

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really C. The public have been told that they're of no value outside of hospitals or if you're already sick and have very much resisted changing that viewpoint, so not a shock that most people are hearing this and believing it and not wearing masks. For fun see how many are wearing gloves. I noted more gloves on show than masks. The public have been told that gloves are a bad plan(and they are), but there would be far less cultural resistance to wearing them so more appear to be doing so.

Funny enough you right. I'm just back home and I'd say circa 70% with gloves 10-15% masks.

I'm beginning to think we very well maybe the last country out of lockdown at this rate.

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 01:42PM

Yes: valved

Arrival wrote: »

They really should tell us this if it's the case, it's ****ing ridiculous if they're leaning towards that and not coming out to actually tell the people in the country they're running, it's really important

They should be doing everything to try and stop the spread of it. They aren't.

Wibbs · 09-05-2020 02:00PM

Yes: other

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Funny enough you right. I'm just back home and I'd say circa 70% with gloves 10-15% masks.

Not surprised C. People left to their own devices will usually pick whatever they're comfortable with, or run off emotion, rather than anything scientific or even logical.

So they've been told handwashing is good and it is, add in that subconscious thing of not touching icky things and gloves seem like a perfect solution to cover both bases. There's again a subconscious notion that you can catch the virus in some way through your hands. I've actually heard someone say that out loud. Yet you only catch the virus if it gets into your wet bits, mouth and nose primarily, eyes possibly, but likely low enough risk unless someone coughs into them. But people won't cover them up. It's the equivalent of not wanting to get pregnant by wearing a condom on your foot.

Masks are more obvious, more culturally alien, even frightening to some, from a feeling of claustrophobia in some, to feeling on edge because they can't read emotional states in others(that may even be culturally hardwired compared to Asian cultures). They also make the virus and this crisis more obvious and people want to not be reminded all the time. Hence why you see much fewer masks in use. Gloves make people feel "safe" without standing out or looking "odd" and that's enough for many if not most.

Without our authorities leading in this - fat chance - that will not change here. It changed in the Czech rep from the people up maybe because they're more suspicious of "authority" and less servile to it because of their history on foreign authority so are more willing to think beyond the official missives? I can't see that happening here. We're too agreeable to authority as a society(while bending the rules behind its back).

khalessi · 09-05-2020 02:03PM

Yes: surgical

Also Wibbs I was in Dunnes last night and most people wearing gloves as gloves were on offer at the door along with handsantiser but no masks on offer (due to shortage), people will do what they think they are expected to do and what they see others doing.

Most people didnt know to buy masks before all this. I was lucky got the in Jan and got my family to get some but most dont have them to wear and the information to make them hasnt been promoted widely yet.

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 02:07PM

Yes: valved

They are introducing new measures for workplaces when they reopen, not sharing pens, bottles or cups. Temperature monitoring, one way in one way out... All these measures are mandatory. HSA can close businesses if they don't follow the guidelines.

Funny how they can make these changes mandatory on businesses and yet the main way this spreads is through respiratory droplets and masks/face coverings still aren't mandatory.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 02:11PM

Yes: surgical

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

They are introducing new measures for workplaces when they reopen, not sharing pens, bottles or cups. Temperature monitoring, one way in one way out... All these measures are mandatory. HSA can close businesses if they don't follow the guidelines.

Funny how they can make these changes mandatory on businesses and yet the main way this spreads is through respiratory droplets and masks/face coverings still aren't mandatory.

Be interesting to see will they be a requirement when schools open in Spetember? I was watching a video put up here somewhere by a teacher of the protocols implemented in his school in China, impressive. It was demonstrated by adults would love to know how the children are faring. They had to bring 10 masks to school to change once a day for the week.

Away With The Fairies · 09-05-2020 02:51PM

Yes: valved

All these measures on businesses, which is fair enough... They must provide hand sanitizer, tissues, clinical waste bags. Not one mention on providing face masks. The very last point, where 2 metre distance isn't possible, a barrier or a sneeze guard must be in place.

So they have to put in barriers... How about having a barrier on our faces?

That's that on face masks/face coverings anyways.

khalessi · 09-05-2020 02:55PM

Yes: surgical

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

All these measures on businesses, which is fair enough... They must provide hand sanitizer, tissues, clinical waste bags. Not one mention on providing face masks. The very last point, where 2 metre distance isn't possible, a barrier or a sneeze guard must be in place.

So they have to put in barriers... How about having a barrier on our faces?

That's that on face masks/face coverings anyways.

Would be cheaper then a plastic sneeze guard like they have at tills in shops

dublin99 · 09-05-2020 03:05PM

Hong Kong, with a population of over 7 million in very highly density in urban areas, has had just over 1000 cases since Januray and 4 deaths.

In addition to hand hygiene, face masking is emphasized and at almost 100% compliance, as this is a respiratory disease.

They have not had any locally/ community transmitted cases for over 2 weeks (except for a few imported cases on repatriation flights from Pakistan) and have just relaxed restrictions so restaurants, bars have reopened with a max of 8 people at a table. School leavers exams are taking place )candidates wear masks in exams) and schools will be reopening.

People are told to continue wearing masks and government is giving everyone re-usable ones, plus ten disposable ones for each household.

Everyone believes it is the face masks that has stopped the community transmission by asymptomatic or pre symptomatic carriers, and by doing that the transmission chain is effectively broken.

0lddog · 09-05-2020 03:12PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

All these measures on businesses, which is fair enough... .

When you get into the detail it's not so simple.

Example : what do you do with keypads used by access control systems ?

Example : vending machines. ( Would include pay and display and ticket vending machine for Luas etc )

Wibbs · 09-05-2020 03:30PM

Yes: other

dublin99 wrote: »

Everyone believes it is the face masks that has stopped the community transmission by asymptomatic or pre symptomatic carriers, and by doing that the transmission chain is effectively broken.

That there is any doubt among our so called leaders that reducing the risk of transmission through the very routes the virus takes truly beggars belief at this stage. Are they being wilfully stupid?

Masks

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