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Covid19 Part XVII-24,841 in ROI (1,639 deaths) 4,679 in NI (518 deaths)(28/05)Read OP

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  • #1802
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Boggles wrote: »
    Fact - Nursing homes were told to shut down early March by their association.

    Fact - Tony and HSE in mid March were saying they should open them back up.

    In your opinion, which was the better advice and which was utterly stupid and wreckless in the extreme?

    Anecdotal I know, but a friend of mine's daughter works in a private nursing home near a large Midlands town( I won't be identifying it). Back in March the director of nursing saw the sh*storm developing in Italy. In March she implemented a PPE regime, a policy of hygiene in the home that was very strict. 2 hourly temp checks for the staff. When she was advised by the HSE to lift visitor restrictions she ignored it. As of today no Covid cases in the home.


  • #1803
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,496 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    quokula wrote:
    The pro-panic buying cohort weren’t correct though. The supply chain is still totally fine.
    They were correct, best way to avoid this is lockdown. I'm not normally one to panic buy, actualiy I don't think I've ever done it before this thing. I didn't buy tons of food either, just hand sanitiser, wipes, masks and all that stuff. I still have plenty of both and looking at the prices of it now when I do our weekly shop it's far more expensive.
    quokula wrote:
    As for the seriousness of the disease, the HSE were following the WHO who were following the evidence. Some people love a bit of disaster porn and are constantly claiming the sky is falling and even though they’re wrong 99% of the time they get to say I told you so for a once in a century event.
    Most people with a brain following this knew it was far more serious than anything we'd seen in our lives.
    This isn't a case where the usual small percentage of conspiracy theorising doom mongers took over the world. The evidence was there early for all to see how serious this thing is.
    I'm not one who panics, I take a more analytical approach to things. When the government said we were going to have 15k infected by this thing I said they were wrong and that we'd be lucky to stay below 100k and 5k deaths.
    The WHO have been a disaster during this pandemic from ignoring Taiwan and trusting the Chinese to then backing the Chinese, refusing to recommend testing and criticising countries who responded by banning flights from China to their countries.
    Anybody with common sense could see in late January that this was going to be global.
    quokula wrote:
    The HSE don’t have that luxury, if they shut down the country every time there was a new virus somewhere in the world before it was potentially understood, Ireland would be totally on its knees by now after the shut downs for Ebola, SARS 1 and Mers in the last couple of decades.
    As stated above, this grew faster than anything we've witnessed in our lifetime. This was different to anything we can e come across before. The government should have had us in lockdown in mid February or the beginning of March at the latest. Our decision makers are responsible for the loss of many lives through their inaction.


  • #1804
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What plan is this?

    A plan should have been put in place to protect the vulnerable residents of nursing homes

    No point following the virus as holahan says they were doing

    Varadkar and holohan like Johnson and trump will deflect and move the goalposts and never admit to a cockup


  • #1805
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Nursing homes were not the only ones doing their own thing. As for the testing not sure that can be proven. If they were considered well enough to leave hospital a test would have been needed to confirm it.

    They were only considered well enough to leave hospital when the bed was needed and they were very hurriedly shifted to the nursing homes. We're not talking here about people who had been diagnosed and treated for Covid-19, we're talking about patients who were in hospital, many for respiratory issues, being shifted to the nursing homes.

    I'm not suggesting that this was the only cause or even the primary cause of spread within the nursing homes, but Dr. Holohan/HSE is clearly trying to shift all of the blame onto the public with his "Don't blame yourself for visiting" spin. And as for blaming staff, yeah, it's the staff fault for not wearing appropriate PPE. Oh wait, they didn't have it, did they? And that was the fault of both the HSE and the nursing home managers.


  • #1806
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Loozer wrote: »
    A plan should have been put in place to protect the vulnerable residents of nursing homes

    No point following the virus as holahan says they were doing

    Varadkar and holohan like Johnson and trump will deflect and move the goalposts and never admit to a cockup
    The logic is community infection first, which makes sense. If that doesn't happen, nobody else has much hope. BTW your list of culprits is far too short, most countries in the world have had major problems in this area and it has shown up fundamental systemic weakness in the sector.

    HIQA and the HSE control the homes. They are supposed to follow guidelines, and protocols, some of them do not and they have staffing issues to boot.


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  • #1807
    Loozer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Loozer


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The logic is community infection first, which makes sense. If that doesn't happen, nobody else has much hope. BTW your list of culprits is far too short, most countries in the world have had major problems in this area and it has shown up fundamental systemic weakness in the sector.

    HIQA and the HSE control the homes. They are supposed to follow guidelines, and protocols, some of them do not and they have staffing issues to boot.

    I've spent years in nursing homes so I suppose I have a bias

    It was obvious to me anyway what would happen


  • #1808
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    polesheep wrote: »
    They were only considered well enough to leave hospital when the bed was needed and they were very hurriedly shifted to the nursing homes. We're not talking here about people who had been diagnosed and treated for Covid-19, we're talking about patients who were in hospital, many for respiratory issues, being shifted to the nursing homes.

    I'm not suggesting that this was the only cause or even the primary cause of spread within the nursing homes, but Dr. Holohan/HSE is clearly trying to shift all of the blame onto the public with his "Don't blame yourself for visiting" spin. And as for blaming staff, yeah, it's the staff fault for not wearing appropriate PPE. Oh wait, they didn't have it, did they? And that was the fault of both the HSE and the nursing home managers.
    I've come to believe that he will answer any questions as best he can, some medical data excepted. I don't think there are answers to many of these questions and there won't be until the "project" has finished. It's premature IMO to single out elements now to try to analyse them.


  • #1809
    ek motor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭ek motor


    mloc123 wrote: »
    This is an issue from anyone on a ventilator... For whatever reason. Being ventilated for a prolonged period of time damages your organs.

    Not just an issue for ventilated patients. Irreversible lung damage can be an issue even for those with mild symptoms.

    https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/04/24/divers-face-long-term-health-impact-from-covid-19/


  • #1810
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    For those counting ICU numbers down to 72 today.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0509/1137416-coronavirus-ireland/


  • #1811
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    72 patients in ICU currently, compared with 76 yesterday and 99 last Saturday


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  • #1812
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,109 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    72 patients in ICU currently, compared with 76 yesterday and 99 last Saturday

    Yes, the measures are working.


  • #1813
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ek motor wrote: »
    Not just an issue for ventilated patients. Irreversible lung damage can be an issue even for those with mild symptoms.

    https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/04/24/divers-face-long-term-health-impact-from-covid-19/

    Divers can also suffer a condition known as the 'Bends' not a risk for the wider non diver community.


  • #1814
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Snugglebunnies wrote: »
    Yeah, you probably just had a runny nose? This doctor had a runny nose and tested positive. There's a huge range and severity of symptoms which makes it very difficult to diagnose in some cases without a test.

    Yeah, one of dozens of sniffles the kids bring home from their schools. One good things about the isolation is no more sniffles.


  • #1815
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Funsterdelux wrote: »
    Yeah, one of dozens of sniffles the kids bring home from their schools. One good things about the isolation is no more sniffles.

    Children need to be exposed to illness to develop a robust immune system.


  • #1816
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    https://twitter.com/davidasinclair/status/1259084270854905856

    2 are controllable , this should be highlighted in a campaign


  • #1817
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Divers can also suffer a condition known as the 'Bends' not a risk for the wider non diver community.

    The bends is Decompression Sickness and whilst more common on divers it is not just limited to them. You can also get it from high altitude (including but very rare in pressurized aircraft) or other unpressurized air travel,


  • #1818
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    GM228 wrote: »
    The bends is Decompression Sickness and whilst more common on divers it is not just limited to them. You can also get it from high altitude (including but very rare in pressurized aircraft) or other unpressurized air travel,

    So not something the wider community needs to fear. Grand so.


  • #1819
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Children need to be exposed to illness to develop a robust immune system.

    Of course, but its nice to have a break from wiping snotty noses.

    But I wouldnt knowingly expose them to a novel illness we know little about.


  • #1820
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    So not something the wider community needs to fear. Grand so.

    Indeed.


  • #1821
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    Interesting he mentions that going on a ventilator increases your chances of dying. It's quite vague in what he means by this, is it that if you are put on a ventilator you are so far gone and so ill that you will most likely die or that the ventilator could actually cause further complications and cause death? We had been hearing so much about ventilators being vital for recovery, are there different schools of thought now on how best to treat people?


    Ventilators seem to be something that is done, but which provides virtually no actual benefit or improvement in outcomes. I feel sorry for the anguish the Italian health workers suffered over priorotising ventilators by age who thought their decisions would result in the death of those denied, when really it made no difference, really. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/02/826105278/ventilators-are-no-panacea-for-critically-ill-covid-19-patients?t=1588809239169


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  • #1822
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Funsterdelux wrote: »
    Of course, but its nice to have a break from wiping snotty noses.

    But I wouldnt knowingly expose them to a novel illness we know little about.

    We know that the very young experience little danger from the virus. There is of course outliers.
    Hospitals/graveyards are not full of children that succumbed to the virus.


  • #1823
    JoChervil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    Interesting he mentions that going on a ventilator increases your chances of dying. It's quite vague in what he means by this, is it that if you are put on a ventilator you are so far gone and so ill that you will most likely die or that the ventilator could actually cause further complications and cause death? We had been hearing so much about ventilators being vital for recovery, are there different schools of thought now on how best to treat people?


    In this video from doctor from NY he also said that it is what caused the majority of death - the wrong course of treatment. People with COVID19 don't need ventilators because their muscles work properly. They need oxygen. Ventilators damage lungs. Only 85% survive such treatment, so you have a better chance to survive if can get through only using oxygen.


  • #1824
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    We know that the very young experience little danger from the virus. There is of course outliers.
    Hospitals/graveyards are not full of children that succumbed to the virus.

    What we know so far.


  • #1825
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    GM228 wrote: »
    The bends is Decompression Sickness and whilst more common on divers it is not just limited to them. You can also get it from high altitude (including but very rare in pressurized aircraft) or other unpressurized air travel,

    It's only 'common' in ex divers. ;)

    It's uncommon with most divers, who tend to put some effort into avoiding getting it.


  • #1826
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    JoChervil wrote: »
    In this video from doctor from NY he also said that it is what caused the majority of death - the wrong course of treatment. People with COVID19 don't need ventilators because their muscles work properly. They need oxygen. Ventilators damage lungs. Only 85% survive such treatment, so you have a better chance to survive if can get through only using oxygen.
    Please don't start taking the Youtube videos of a single doctor as some proven fact.


  • #1827
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,999 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    wadacrack wrote: »
    Aging is a disease & it is treatable

    It still has a 100% fatality rate, so the 'treatments' are largely palliative and could do with considerable improvement.


  • #1828
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Aging is a disease? :confused:


  • #1829
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    GM228 wrote: »
    Aging is a disease?

    And its 100% fatal


  • #1830
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    GM228 wrote: »
    Aging is a disease? :confused:

    And treatable???


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  • #1831
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    Funsterdelux wrote: »
    And its 100% fatal

    But, it's not a "disease".


This discussion has been closed.
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